Starting out with owner maintenance

Apache123

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Hey, Steve!
Just wondering how many of you started out who take care of your own planes.

I do my own work on my cars, but I've not really done anything on my own aircraft. Did most of you just find a local A&P who'd inspect and sign off of your own work and start off with basic things, or did you take an official class/course?

Running wires and turning wrenches doesn't bother me, but I want to make sure I do everything nice and legal.
 
I do what ever I am allowed by regulation to do and those things my A&P is comfortable with me doing under his supervision.
 
I did, one of the main reasons I could afford to buy my Travelair when I did is because I was working at a repair station and my boss heavily subsidized my costs.
 
My strategy has been that every time I do something for the first time, I do it under the direct supervision of my A&P/IA buddy in the next hangar. The other thing was getting the maintenance manuals and using them.
 
Going to due an owner assisted annual this year,have been doing oil changes for years.
 
Usually the #1 reason I won't help the guy next door is, neither of us own the maintenance manuals, and I'm not gonna buy them.
 
We participated in our own annual for the first time this year (documented here). It is a lot of hard work (mechanics earn their keep in the Book of Steingar) but well worth it. Best way to get to know your airplane. My preflights have certainly changed!
 
Usually the #1 reason I won't help the guy next door is, neither of us own the maintenance manuals, and I'm not gonna buy them.
I bought the maintenance manuals so I have them, and my mechanic uses mine when he works on my Tiger (and they're available to him if another AA-5-series plane needs work -- I learned about the value of favors from Don Corleone). Of course, he has the manuals for the most popular types, but a small mechanic can't afford to buy every manual for everything flying just in case someone drops in with, say, a Grumman GA-7 Cougar (of which only 115 were built, and half were shipped overseas). So if you own something less than dirt-common, it's probably worth buying the manuals for your plane, especially if you can scan them and keep them on your iPad in case you break somewhere away from home.
 
Going to due an owner assisted annual this year,have been doing oil changes for years.

I did one 2 years ago and spent 10 days of time doing it. Actually ten half days as it was in august and we wouldn't work too late in the afternoon due to heat.

I am not particularly mechanical nor interested in mechanics but I can remove plates, replace fuel cell, retrieve or hand up tools when the mechanic runs out of hands or easier not to keep climbing up or down and in and out of difficult spots for tools parts and what not.

I did the cleaning, opening, 2nd man on cowl off, scrapped and painted the battery box, ordered parts or picked them up from aircraft supple, helped compression check (pushed or held prop), clean plugs, change oil, clean windows, vacuumed fuselage, checked and charged battery, goffer donuts and coffee and broiled steaks on the last day. It was a cool part of aircraft ownership everyone should attempt to do at least once. It takes the mysticism out of 'The Annual.'
 
Steve,

I would recommend in the following order to start and go from there with all initial work supervised the first time. 1) oil change 2) oil change with 50 hour inspection (cleaning, rotating and gaping spark plugs if required, checking water levels in battery if required, inspecting fuel lines, brake pads, looking for missing bolts, etc...) there is a lot you wont know to look for at first so I'd recommend having an A&P sign off on these if you are doing them 3) change tires and repack bearings 4) owner assisted annual.

The trick is finding a A&P that will work with you but just ask him what sounds fair in his mind in copenensation for his time.
 
As a young'n I would work on the old man's Cessna and he would get a buddy to sign it off.

Then, I bought an E-AB so I only need to see the A&P once a year.

It's a stinking internal combustion engine with technology from the '30s through the '50s. It ain't rocket science. The structure is pretty obvious and the guidelines for things like hole clearances, material properties, etc. are not hard to find. It ain't rocket science. Put it back the same way it was before you took it apart 'cept for whatever needed to get serviced / fixed.
 
I picked up some good practical experience in my college flying club as a crew chief, maintenance officer and president in my 5 years. I got to assist with a lot of things like oil changes, brake changes, 100 hr inspections, interior refurb, coordinating with Mx shops, ferrying planes, etc. This was volunteer labor on my part, but very, very valuable. I've worked on my own vehicles since I was 15 up to and including engine R&R (for rebuild) and everything less than that.

I do as much of my own Mooney work as time allows under supervision from an IA/DER friend. I have the manuals, and acquire a new specialty tool or two every year. There isn't anything "difficult" on a plane relative to a car or motorcycle IMO, but it is different. Use the manuals and learn the proper techniques and practices. If in doubt, ask!

I'd love to have my A&P or IA cert, but won't spend the time on the official classes. I have an Aero Eng degree and work in the industry and once upon a time that and a pilot cert would "qualify" you to take the test, but I don't think that is the case anymore.
 
I can't get enough. :no:

I do all my own maintenance. I have built a plane, repaired them, replaced tires, brakes, mags, plugs, harnesses, panels, radios, engines, props, spinners, anything airplaney. ( I just made up that word :D) I've assisted painting, fliberglass repair, wing replacement, reskinned wings, welded on airframes.

As soon as I sell one of my planes I'll build an RV-8, and I want to build the engine. :yes:

I just can't get enough! :no:
 
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Same here, for 40 years. I had no background in mechanic work other than keeping a '54 Ford drivable, so I was just the helper and didn't really think about using the sessions for personal training, which was a mistake. Now I do most of the work myself, but should be better at it by now after more than a hundred times through the book. Live and (slowly) learn.


I do what ever I am allowed by regulation to do and those things my A&P is comfortable with me doing under his supervision.
 
... airplaney. ( I just made up that word :D)

"Airplaney" seems to have already been in common use around here when I first heard it in my student pilot ground school class some 15 years ago. :blueplane:

BTW, I did pretty much all the maintenance on my old Cherokee for the entire time I owned it... but then my AP/IA buddy runs his shop inside the same giant hangar I'm in and was always around in case I needed any help or advice. After 10 years of doing this, he'd sometimes come to me with Cherokee-specific tech questions.
 
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Just wondering how many of you started out who take care of your own planes.

I do my own work on my cars, but I've not really done anything on my own aircraft. Did most of you just find a local A&P who'd inspect and sign off of your own work and start off with basic things, or did you take an official class/course?

Running wires and turning wrenches doesn't bother me, but I want to make sure I do everything nice and legal.

Steve,
A caveat if I may. It's OK for you to do the work allowed under Part 43; just make sure you log it. Work outside of that needs to be inspected and approved by an A&P or IA. I had to refuse to sign off annuals for one owner whose work was very good but he never told me what he had done. I wasn't going to jeopardize my ticket.
 
Isn't that backwards from the way it's supposed to be done? I've always thought that "under the supervision of" meant that he would tell me what I could do rather than me telling him what I had done.

Steve,
A caveat if I may. It's OK for you to do the work allowed under Part 43; just make sure you log it. Work outside of that needs to be inspected and approved by an A&P or IA. I had to refuse to sign off annuals for one owner whose work was very good but he never told me what he had done. I wasn't going to jeopardize my ticket.
 
I thought I wanted to get deeply involved in maintaining my Maule but soon learned a couple of things:
- Owner assisted annuals can cost more at some/many shops, which makes sense for several reasons.
- Though smart and handy, I was untrained and inexperienced in airplane maintenance.
- Supervised maintenance should be done with real supervision.
- A proper annual is whole lot more work than I expected

Since 5 years of building, 4 months of wrenching next to an experienced mechanic, some formal training, and 2 years of flying and maintaining my RV10 I've gained an awful lot of respect for the trade. With that small amount of hard won skill building and experience I found that I could complete my 2nd condition inspection in 3+ weeks.

I like the advice about starting with specific tasks like oil changing, moving on to plug maintenance, timing and such. Following an experienced and willing mechanic through several airframe and powerplant inspections would be priceless.

It's a fun learning curve but steeper and more challenging than some might expect if for no other reason that learning by trial and error is so damn costly.
 
What I did when I owned my PA-28:

First time, mechanic taught me how to do it.

Second time, mechanic watched me do it.

I was more than happy to pay for the mechanic's time and never asked to borrow tools.

I did work many moons ago as an unlicensed airplane mechanic for a commuter airline. I learned that it's similar to working on other things but totally different at the same time.
 
Isn't that backwards from the way it's supposed to be done? I've always thought that "under the supervision of" meant that he would tell me what I could do rather than me telling him what I had done.

Quite backward. He was doing work he shouldn't have been doing and not logging it or telling me what he had done. He certainly wasn't doing it under supervision so I had to tell him I would no longer sign his annuals.
 
Usually the #1 reason I won't help the guy next door is, neither of us own the maintenance manuals, and I'm not gonna buy them.

Brian -- what airplanes do you need the manuals for?
 
I'll do the oil changes, open the inspection hatches (and close them later), determine when the tires need to be changed (or rotated), and make sure I have enough money in the bank to write the check.

I don't expect the shop to know how to design & implement a global, real-time, hardened database/data warehouse system with appropriate security, so please don't expect me know how to hone the cylinders or adjust carburators.

On the other hand, designing & writing the software for avionics is a blast. Wish I could get back to that but I don't want to move out of Colorado.

I do software, not hardware.
 
Steve,

One of the best things you can do for an old airplane is help prevent corrosion. Keep the airplane clean, waxed and ready to go. Particularly the underbelly and gear areas. By regular cleaning you will become intimately familiar with your aircraft and see smoking or popped rivets, loose or lost screws, cracked items and you can immediately drill a hole to stop the cracks and possibly avoid a costly repair. This is nothing more than getting on a car dolly and cleaning with airplane safe cleaners. You can even do a bit of touch up painting from a spray can or airbrush paint touch up to keep things looking smart. This item alone can help save you maintenance particularly if your airplane is on a tie down and subject to more wx damage. Obviously this does not require mechanic aptitude.

Then oil changes, cleaning plugs, inspection of all hoses fuel lines, scat/sceet hoses, exhaust system for wear/leaks. WE inspect these things before every flight but I mean a thorough check from three angles from one end to the other of every single hose.

You can check for exhaust leaks by putting the exhaust side of a vacuum to blow into the exhaust and use some dish-washing liquid in water with a small brush and dab it around all connections to see if you can find any soap bubbles just like checking for a leak on gas lines in the house or a/c lines. To actually fix a leak you will need supervision but just to try and find the leak you should not.

You can change brakes, tubes and tires without supervision. I'm not sure you might even be able to repack the bearings as well. You just need to have a set of airplane jacks and have someone show you how to use them safely.

I have heard guys say they pull their own failed accessory: alternator, starter, carburetor or mags to send out to be IRAN'ed when needed then get supervision or an A&P to put the item back on the aircraft and make the log entries. (some pilots have told me they replace the accessory never make an entry themselves of course this is not legal and I am not recommending this). Maybe not the starter if it requires removing the prop. I would not want to take the prop off myself.

In some aircraft dropping the exhaust and lines to take off a cracked or failed cylinder is a rater easy thing to do. This is more than my adventure level but I have helped my mechanic all six cylinders on my current airplane.

I know others who have removed their jugs to have them Nickle Nitrated to avoid rust on aircraft that sits weeks between flights.

There is a tail horn inspection AD on Comanches and many of the ICS guys remove the tail and horn to be inspected and then have the mechanic help replace it. Shaves a few hours off an 8 hour AD.

If you want to do an owner assisted Annual you can at very least take off all the inspection plates, remove the seats from the airplane, clean the battery box and repaint it, clean plugs, change oil, change tires, install new battery, help with compression check, you can pull all your Ad's from FAA directly and if you want to go above a normal annual you can even find the Apache SBs and FAA problem serviceability reports for areas that are found to need more attention.

But like everyone says, take a weeks vacation and do the next complete annual with your IA and you will see many opportunities to perform future maintenance if you have the time and interest and a willing mechanic.


Just wondering how many of you started out who take care of your own planes.

I do my own work on my cars, but I've not really done anything on my own aircraft. Did most of you just find a local A&P who'd inspect and sign off of your own work and start off with basic things, or did you take an official class/course?

Running wires and turning wrenches doesn't bother me, but I want to make sure I do everything nice and legal.
 
Of course you should always get permission from your mechanic to do work and find what level of supervision he requires. Some require you to pull it into their hangar, others say bring it over when you are done and I will look at it and sign it off, others want to walk you through it together.... But this should be known before you begin any pilot-owner performed work.

BTW Norm, What work specifically did he do that you caught? If he did not tell you, nor did he log it, how did you know he did it? And if there were no way for you to know, how would it jeopardize your ticket?

Steve,
A caveat if I may. It's OK for you to do the work allowed under Part 43; just make sure you log it. Work outside of that needs to be inspected and approved by an A&P or IA. I had to refuse to sign off annuals for one owner whose work was very good but he never told me what he had done. I wasn't going to jeopardize my ticket.
 
I've been inactive as an A&P, but working as an airline Electical Engineer for years.

Most of my A&P time was airline work, but I did get around to different departments working as general mechanic, sheet metal guy, and electrical/radio, as well as lead man.

I recently bought a Grumman Tiger, and really all the big stuff is fine, there are little things like panel lights, hobbs meter that I just want working.

I pulled the wing tip off (to replace a strobe) and didn't like the way the last person in there clamped up the wiring, the age of the pitot tubing, or that the anti-chafing rubber was peeling off the lightning holes. I'm in the process of getting a supply of consumables and bit parts to renew all this stuff as I find it.

A lot of the fairings are developing cracks, I'll need to do something about them. After the first month I haven't done anything I feel like I haven't done 100s of times before. I know this will all be fine.

I find myself doing a lot of maintenence history research. Previous owner apparently didn't carry any of the fight manual supplements listed in the 337s and STCs. I found so many documents required to be in the cockpit, I needed a separate binder.

I'm still tracking down a couple STC, will fabricate the required placards etc.

I think I like this end of owner ship too, but don't want to get too distracted from flying, especially over nit pick stuff and records.

Sometimes my previous experience works against me and I feel compelled to read everything, because I have an idea how things are supposed to be (right or wrong). I've been involved with 70 or 80 aircraft aquisitions at work and the records are a big deal.

Again, I want to get everything I look up into a spread sheet right from the get go, so I have a software record I can work with going forward.
 
Of course you should always get permission from your mechanic to do work and find what level of supervision he requires. Some require you to pull it into their hangar, others say bring it over when you are done and I will look at it and sign it off, others want to walk you through it together.... But this should be known before you begin any pilot-owner performed work.

BTW Norm, What work specifically did he do that you caught? If he did not tell you, nor did he log it, how did you know he did it? And if there were no way for you to know, how would it jeopardize your ticket?

He made some modifications to the electrical system and replaced some parts including heavy duty contactors with parts from an unknown source that did not come with the necessary paperwork.

If one of those mods or parts had resulted in something as simple as an off-airport landing I would have been culpable for signing off an unairworthy aircraft.
 
Assuming you do this for a living and are in this to make some money you cannot make too much firing many of your customers. Was it what he installed or more what you afraid he might do later that made you fire him?



He made some modifications to the electrical system and replaced some parts including heavy duty contactors with parts from an unknown source that did not come with the necessary paperwork.

If one of those mods or parts had resulted in something as simple as an off-airport landing I would have been culpable for signing off an unairworthy aircraft.
 
Assuming you do this for a living and are in this to make some money you cannot make too much firing many of your customers. Was it what he installed or more what you afraid he might do later that made you fire him?

Had he informed me what he had done I may have been more receptive. I wasn't going to sign away my career.
 
Did most of you just find a local A&P who'd inspect and sign off of your own work and start off with basic things, or did you take an official class/course?

Running wires and turning wrenches doesn't bother me, but I want to make sure I do everything nice and legal.

Find an A&P first. Talk with him, watch him work a while, and ask what he wants you to do and not do.

One thing that really helps him get to know you is an owner-assisted annual. If he figures that you're competent, he'll give you a few things to do during the annual, and if you perform up to standard, he's not going to worry so much about the rest of what you do.
 
I started with a mechanics license, made it easier. Find an A&P IA who will work with you and have a chat
 
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