STAR into KDXR?

[azure]

I'm flying a Pilots n' Paws mission this afternoon, bringing a dog from CT to VT. I filed IFR direct from KMPV to KDXR and was just wondering if I can expect a STAR going into Danbury, and if so, what transition to expect? TIA...

 

[Unit74]

I take it No STAR No DP was in your filing? It's my understanding they only apply to turboprops and up or was that something else?

 

[Clark1961]

It's my understanding they only apply to turboprops and up or was that something else?

That is something else, maybe you're thinking about the altitude restrictions. There really isn't a reason to request "no sids/stars" with everything in a GPS like the 480 that Liz has.

 

[jordane93]

You probably won't get a STAR. I've done most of my flying in the Northeast and haven't gotten one STAR. A lot of times, the STAR's are for faster turbo planes or planes that are transitioning from flight levels down the approach environment

 

[poadeleted20]

Putting "NO SID/NO STAR" in your flight plan won't keep you from being required to fly a STAR, just force ATC to read you the whole STAR verbatim and annoy them royally, as well as making you copy the whole thing down in flight. That phrase is a holdover from 40 years ago when SIDs and STARs were created, and they were published in a separate book from approach procedures. Most light plane pilots didn't bother getting the separate book, and they were permitted to note the fact that they didn't have copies of those procedures aboard to let ATC know they would have to read the whole procedure to the pilot. Since SID's and STAR's are now integrated into the Terminal Procedures books along with all the approach procedures, there's no point in putting that remark in your flight plan unless you like writing down a long and complicated clearance and annoying ATC to the point of possibly being put in a punitive hold until they have time to read you the whole thing.

That said, the odds of a light single being issued a STAR into DXR are pretty slim unless you're coming from upstate NY (and Vermont is in that direction -- will you be filing via ALB?), in which case the NOBBI FIVE STAR is possible (although it isn't particularly complicated).

 

[azure]

You probably won't get a STAR. I've done most of my flying in the Northeast and haven't gotten one STAR. A lot of times, the STAR's are for faster turbo planes or planes that are transitioning from flight levels down the approach environment

Nope, they gave me the ALB.NOBBI 5 arrival. Punching that into my 480 was trivial, but it would have added 50 nm onto my route, so I canceled and went VFR with flight following. Since it was a CAVU day, that was the best solution.

Unfortunately, I ended up waiting nearly 2 hours at KDXR for the dog, which was pleasant enough (and everyone there was just awesome, even after I accidentally took someone's tiedown - I can't say enough about the staff at Executive), but it meant I didn't get underway to Burlington (the dog's final destination) until nearly sunset. I really don't like flying VFR in unfamiliar airspace after dark, so I filed direct KBTV, and got cleared KDXR CMK SOARS JUDDS KBTV, which you can see on the low enroute chart is pretty roundabout, but I considered it the lesser of two evils. Landed about 1830 local and 45 minutes later I was flying the "Burlington 6 Departure" - which is not even in the 480's database since it's just radar vectors - to VUYUD and the RNAV 17 into KMPV. My only concern was with the BKN050 ceiling at KBTV, but the layer was thin and didn't seem to be much of an icing risk.

Anyway thanks to those who responded, even though I didn't see any of the replies until it was too late.

 

[azure]

Putting "NO SID/NO STAR" in your flight plan won't keep you from being required to fly a STAR, just force ATC to read you the whole STAR verbatim and annoy them royally, as well as making you copy the whole thing down in flight. That phrase is a holdover from 40 years ago when SIDs and STARs were created, and they were published in a separate book from approach procedures. Most light plane pilots didn't bother getting the separate book, and they were permitted to note the fact that they didn't have copies of those procedures aboard to let ATC know they would have to read the whole procedure to the pilot. Since SID's and STAR's are now integrated into the Terminal Procedures books along with all the approach procedures, there's no point in putting that remark in your flight plan unless you like writing down a long and complicated clearance and annoying ATC to the point of possibly being put in a punitive hold until they have time to read you the whole thing.

Right, as Flying Ron said, with my 480 I have no reason to fear STARs since most of them are in the database. My concern was for time since all of the STARs into Danbury are nutso roundabout courses that add lots of distance and time for a bugsmasher like my Cardinal. I just wanted to know what to expect, since I wasn't getting an expected route via ForeFlight for some reason.

That said, the odds of a light single being issued a STAR into DXR are pretty slim unless you're coming from upstate NY (and Vermont is in that direction -- will you be filing via ALB?), in which case the NOBBI FIVE STAR is possible (although it isn't particularly complicated).

No, I filed direct. My philosophy is pretty much, file what I want and fly what I get. Or get fed up with what I get (ALB.NOBBI FIVE, as you suspected I might get), and cancel and go VFR instead, which is what I did.

 

[flyingron]

Every once and a while I get a STAR coming into IAD, but other than that I've not seen one in the NE (though I don't go into the class B airports typically elsewhere).

 

[comanchepilot]

I remain convinced the reason why they give you the long routes IFR is to get you to cancel and fly it VFR to make it easier on them . . . . because when it really is IFR you NEVER get the long drawn out routes - you get vectored to final and are expected to fly the approach to the runway. . . .

 

[azure]

I remain convinced the reason why they give you the long routes IFR is to get you to cancel and fly it VFR to make it easier on them . . . . because when it really is IFR you NEVER get the long drawn out routes - you get vectored to final and are expected to fly the approach to the runway. . . .

Possibly, but I'd guess that's more likely a side effect of there being just less traffic (probably even IFR traffic, in terms of absolute numbers of aircraft) when it's really IFR out. On days like Saturday, lots of flibs that wouldn't dream of going IFR in actual this time of year (like me), are out flying in the system.

And, when I asked the controller if I could cancel and stay on flight following,, she just hemmed and hawed and said "Well, I GUESS so," as if the idea that someone might want to do that never occurred to her.

 

[flyingron]

I wouldn't mind the NE routing if they made any sense. If they're going to always issue the same clearance through the NY area, why not make an airway that follows that. BOSOX V999 CYN would make more sense then the hodge podge routing you get.

Why BOS V3 MRB exists is beyond me. You never get to fly that even though it seems like a perfectly valid routing AROUND NY

 

[coma24]

BOS V3 MRB might do nasty things to the flows for TEB and EWR just west of CMK. Depending on your altitude, you might also be in the way of EWR and TEB deps.