Sporty's Pilot Shop does not honor return policy

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jesse

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jesse
I'm kind of disappointed that I even have to write this, but I feel at this point I have little option given the situation.

On June 17th 2013 I placed an order with Sportys for $674.49. This order consisted of the following items:
http://www.sportys.com/WrightBros/p...gn=OrderConfirmation&utm_content=itemlistItem
http://www.sportys.com/WrightBros/p...gn=OrderConfirmation&utm_content=itemlistItem
http://www.sportys.com/WrightBros/p...gn=OrderConfirmation&utm_content=itemlistItem

The two prints of paintings I ordered I *thought* I ordered as a Rosewood frame. When I received the items it turned out that one was rosewood and the other was oak. Looking at the order confirms that one is rosewood and the other is oak so it's quite possible I made a mistake. At the end of the day though, the two frames do not look good next to each other, and I need them to match.

I was a bit worried about spending this much money on prints and frames that I couldn't even see. But why should I be worried? I was ordering from Sportys. After all, the following exists on the very page where you order a print:
One Year Guarantee
Our one-year guarantee has not changed since we introduced our first product in 1962. If for any reason you are not 100% satisfied with your purchase, let us know—we will make it right. If you would like a refund or exchange, please return the product on a timely basis in the same condition in which it was received.
Price Guarantee
Sporty’s guarantees competitive pricing on everything we sell. If you find a competitor offering an identical item at a lower advertised price, just mail or fax us the ad, and Sporty’s will match that price.
Same Day Shipping
We’re proud to offer the fastest service of anyone in the mail order business. If you phone, fax or order over the Internet today before 4:00 P.M. Eastern, weekdays it will be on its way this afternoon. Mail orders ship the same day we receive them. In an effort to ensure your package will be there when you want it, we have created an easy-to-understand delivery map for you. Please use the delivery map to estimate the number of business days to ship to your home or business by standard surface delivery. As a precaution, you may want to allow an extra day for delivery to assure that your package arrives on time. Running short of time? Ask about our One/Two Day Express Shipping Service. Some of our larger products are shipped pre-paid motor freight from Sporty’s and require longer delivery times. Please allow one to two weeks for those products. Engraved and Embroidered items will ship in two days in most instances.

Return Policy
For over 50 years, in addition to same day shipping, Sporty’s has offered same day returns and same day exchanges. Each day, we process all returns and exchanges before new orders go out. We know of no other company who does this!
Sporty’s Shops
ATTN: Returns Dept
Clermont County/Sporty’s Airport
2001 Sporty’s Drive
Batavia, OH 45103
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A timely basis would allow enough time for you to try the product once or twice. We feel 30 days allows ample time to do this. After 30 days, we will continue to support the product for a full year, but refunds and exchanges are not accepted.
Click to expand...

I called Sportys to talk to them about what my options were to get this situation corrected. I figured most likely I would send the Oak one back and have the reframe it as Rosewood and figured I might have to pay something for that to happen but they'd probably cut me a deal since mistakes happen and their published policy is so generous.

It turns out that they no longer offer the Rosewood frame. Therefore the only option they will give me is that I can send both pictures back and have them re-framed at a total bill of $302 plus shipping. That's a lot of money considering how I spent $500 to begin with.

Since they weren't willing to work with me on the price of the framing given the unfortunate circumstance that they no longer offer the Rosewood, I decided that my only remaining option was to exercise their return policy and return both pictures.

After all their return policy states:
If you would like a refund or exchange, please return the product on a timely basis in the same condition in which it was received.
Click to expand...

I was told by their customer service agent that the return policy does not apply to "custom" items. I asked her where on their website it states this and she told me it doesn't. I finally asked to speak with her supervisor and was transfered to the supervisor, Carmen.

The first words out of the supervisors mouth is that it's "common-sense" that they wouldn't do so. I disagree, since, it's common-sense to me that you follow your published policies since they are what we consumers make our purchase decisions on.

She stated that their published policy is that the item must be returned in the same condition that it was received. Since they framed it, and since I'm shipping it back in the same condition, seems as though this would qualify. She says it doesn't.

Finally she said she would transfer me to "voicemail" where I could state my case. She botched the transfer and I got stuck in some queue and was disconnected.

I am very disappointed in the fact that Sporty's does not honor their published return policy

I realize that custom framing takes money. But if you custom-frame in house you need to honor your policies as that's what I make my purchase decisions based on. The primary reason I purchased in the first place was because of that policy.

Paying over $300 to fix what was an expensive purchase in the first place isn't an option for me. I really hope Sporty's decides to make this right and honor their policies and keep their good name.

I would consider them making it right by either:
1.) Offering a reasonably priced option to get both framed as the same frame. I define reasonable as less than $100. (my preferred option)
2.) Taking back the entire purchase as per their published return policy
 
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Shameful and disgusting. I usually order a few hundred (up to a thousand one year) dollars of merchandise around Christmas every year.

That will not happen this yeah unless this is resolved to your satisfaction.
 
I've emailed Hal with the following:
Hal,

I am a little frustrated with my interaction I had today with the Sporty's customer service department, in particular, the supervisor Carmen.

On June 17th 2013 I placed an order with Sportys for $674.49, order number #*****.

This order had two prints of paintings on it that were framed by Sportys. I intended on both being framed as Rosewood.

When the prints arrived I opened them and was surprised to see that one was Oak and one was Rosewood. I looked at the order and was surprised to see that the order said this as well, it's very possible I made a mistake and clicked the wrong thing.

I called Sporty's Customer Service to see what my options were. I expected to be able to send the Oak one back and get it reframed as Rosewood at a reasonable price. It turns out that Sporty's no longer offers Rosewood so the only option given to me was to return both prints and have them both reframed as Cherry which would cost me over $300 plus shipping. That is simply too much money for me given how I spent over $500 on them in the first place.

I was really hoping that Sporty's would help me out given the unfortunate circumstances of all this and the great reputation Sporty's has but they would not meet me in the middle on this or help in any way. Given all that, I was left with my last option, which was to return the entire order as per the return policy.

I was told by Carmen that the return policy does not apply to custom items. I asked where it states this in teh return policy and she said it does not. She said it states the item must be sent back in the condition it was "received". Since Sporty's framed it, and the items are still in the boxes from Sporty's, obviously me sending it back would qualify. She disagrees and tells me that Sporty's will not accept the return.

This just isn't what I expect from Sportys. I most certainly don't expect Sportys not to honor their published return policy since that policy is what gives me the confidence to order in the first place.

Could you please give me a call so we can discuss this? My number is *********.

I have written about this experience in an online pilot community with thousands of members. I would love it if I could post in there that Sportys made this right:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1199398

I refer all my students to Sporty's because of the great customer service. I was so very surprised that I received anything but that.

Best Regards,

Jesse Angell
CFI/CFII
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Having a policy about return of "custom" items is pretty standard. Since it was not published which could be as simple as stating at the end of the return policy "This return policy does not apply to custom items such as custom embroidery, framing, personalized items....." seems like Sporty's screwed up as least as far as customer relations is concerned.

I feel your approach and requests were qiute reasonable.

BTW, it will take a lot of free hot dogs to make up for this one. ;)

Good luck.

Cheers
 
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It is very disappointing that Sporty's is apparently choosing to disregard their own return policy; there is nothing remotely ambiguous about it.

I would hope that, upon further review, the Sporty's organization would recognize the wisdom of stepping up to the plate of honor, so to speak.

Still, if at the end of the day, they refuse to act in accordance with the explicit terms they set forth in their own website, they will be doing so very publicly, and that choice will demonstrate that they are not at all interested in making sales of aviation-related merchandise to... thousands upon thousands of pilots.

I bet that is not their true intent, and that the proper person, someone with honor and authority, has simply not yet had their attention drawn to the situation. They step up, they look good; the fail, and the lost sales in the first hour after confirmation thereof will be greater than the cost (if any!) of making good on their explicit warranty and promise.

--

Do keep us posted on what they choose to do in the end; I'd certainly want to make sure as many of my friends and colleagues as possible know about Sporty's' practices - whether good or bad!
 
I can't honestly blame them (custom is custom), but something should have been stated up-front in the website. Why don't you just go and have the one re-framed to your specifications? I am certain there are facilities in your vicinity.
 
steingar said:
I can't honestly blame them (custom is custom), but something should have been stated up-front in the website. Why don't you just go and have the one re-framed to your specifications? I am certain there are facilities in your vicinity.
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That seems to be like having a warranty claim that clearly falls within the terms of the warranty rejected and just give up and pay a mechanic to fix it. :dunno:

Cheers
 
That's nonsense. The reason customers are willing to do business long-distance is because they are comfortable with the return policies of the seller. When the seller invokes the weasel-words in an attempt to restate the public disclosures, the company deserves the bad publicity from making a bad decision.

steingar said:
I can't honestly blame them (custom is custom), but something should have been stated up-front in the website. Why don't you just go and have the one re-framed to your specifications? I am certain there are facilities in your vicinity.
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steingar said:
I can't honestly blame them (custom is custom), but something should have been stated up-front in the website. Why don't you just go and have the one re-framed to your specifications? I am certain there are facilities in your vicinity.
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I would not blame them for having a "custom items exception" to their return policy... but they don't.

To be frank, if what they have told Jesse is truly their intent, it amounts to fraud. Of course, I still hold out hope that the person best able to implement policy was not consulted, and that the response Jesse got was simply mistaken.
 
:yeahthat:

There's nothing unclear about the return policy as written on the website. If there are exceptions they should be explicitly stated.
 
steingar said:
I can't honestly blame them (custom is custom), but something should have been stated up-front in the website. Why don't you just go and have the one re-framed to your specifications? I am certain there are facilities in your vicinity.
Click to expand...

My dad has been in the picture framing business for over 40 years and I have done my time in the business. What Sportys is offering is not at all considered 'custom' work.
 
This one is easy . .

Assuming you paid by credit card and not in person cash or check - then simply dispute the charge like such:

"I purchased two items. They were not framed identically. Their guarantee promises a complete refund if not satisfied. They refuse to honor their refund policy. I will send back the items at my expense yet they refuse."

full credit will post forthwith - the cc company charges back to Sportys - they'll claim its custom - your credit card company will side with them - you then appeal their denial of the charge back claiming there is no exclusion for custom anything - even personalized - then they'll charge them back - you will need to send the items back.
 
Going via the CC company is a last resort, but I do agree would work if all else fails.

I'm disappointed in this. I've ordered a decent amount from Sportys myself, and having a first rate return policy is just. Good business practice when dealing online. As Spike points out, should they refuse to honor their stated policy, there would be a fraud claim a-lurkin.

This will definitely make me think twice about where I buy my pilot supplies if they don't make it right.
 
We could all e-mail Hal stating that we will not be buying anything from Sporty's until Jesse's transaction is made right, and we will be suggesting that other pilots do the same.
 
EdFred said:
We could all e-mail Hal stating that we will not be buying anything from Sporty's until Jesse's transaction is made right, and we will be suggesting that other pilots do the same.
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I see that as a last resort, personally. I'd rather they fix it because they should, rather than feeling they only did it because of Jesse's considerable social leadership.
 
Not going to be liked for this...
Jesse you admitted to possibly making a mistake. So own up to it. You chose Rosewood. Companies make mistakes - let's see what Hal has to say, But since Sporty's is the only Brick & Mortar pilot store anywhere near me and they have awesome fly ins. I would never ban them.
 
saracelica said:
Not going to be liked for this...
Jesse you admitted to possibly making a mistake. So own up to it. You chose Rosewood. Companies make mistakes - let's see what Hal has to say, But since Sporty's is the only Brick & Mortar pilot store anywhere near me and they have awesome fly ins. I would never ban them.
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The concern isn't the mistake - even if Jesse ordered exactly what he wanted, the return policy specifically states that he can return them.

Now they're saying that they can't.

That's bad business, even if you do have an "awesome fly in."
 
Last time I checked my "how to run a good business book" it didn't include telling a customer ya we can't help you but you can plead your case to a machine... :no:

When I select either one of those pictures, I have the option to pick a Rosewood frame. So I guess they get to eat their mistake NOT YOU!

If you don't offer something anymore and your customer needed it that way, then I guess you better GET IT DONE or TAKE IT BACK!

Customer service is number 1, top of the food chain, absolute necessity, period! I don't give a flying rat fart what their policy says, they are capable of figuring out a solution, not try and charge someone another 50% of their initial purchase price to correct an obvious and trivial mistake. It's not like they painted your uncle's plane instead of your fathers on accident, because you gave them the wrong photo... It's a riggin fraggin frame... Come on.

Fix the mistake, eat the profit loss and keep a customer!


My 2c
 
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So fine we all decide to ban Sportys until they make it right.

Where does someone suggest I get my Sectionals and/or Approach charts? I can't afford an iPad and so I still need paper.
 
saracelica said:
So fine we all decide to ban Sportys until they make it right.

Where does someone suggest I get my Sectionals and/or Approach charts? I can't afford an iPad and so I still need paper.
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Sportys is about the worst place to get your charts anyway...there are much better options.
 
SCCutler said:
It is very disappointing that Sporty's is apparently choosing to disregard their own return policy; there is nothing remotely ambiguous about it.

I would hope that, upon further review, the Sporty's organization would recognize the wisdom of stepping up to the plate of honor, so to speak.

... They step up, they look good; the fail, and the lost sales in the first hour after confirmation thereof will be greater than the cost (if any!) of making good on their explicit warranty and promise.

--

Do keep us posted on what they choose to do in the end; I'd certainly want to make sure as many of my friends and colleagues as possible know about Sporty's' practices - whether good or bad!
Click to expand...

At this point, poor customer relations means that if they do the right thing they look bad and are facing some lost sales. They don't make right on their policy and they look really bad. When customer service screws up, tells you they won't honor their own policy, tells you that the exception they are using isn't published and then puts you in terminal hold before disconnecting you, the company has FAILED. I've not bought too much stuff from Sporty's but I've used them on occasion and always been very comfortable due to their closeness to the community. This is plain old stupid. Even if they had a policy stated about custom returns, $300 is a bit absurd. Without the policy, Hal is employing someone who simply enjoys screwing customers or isn't smart enough to take ownership of a clearly screwed up position.

Even if they fix this, Hal needs to take a blunt instrument to someone in customer service. Even a simple, "Sir, that is our internal policy but I understand your concern so let me take your information and we'll get back to you in the next 36 hours" would have addressed the concern. Instead, several hundred people are now looking at a Sporty's Suck's type headline on a major pilot board.

Stupid, stupid, stupid

Hal should make Carmen or Cameron or who ever it is write 100 copies of all these posts on a chalk board.
 
I think your option #2 is the only recourse at this time.

You can buy these prints direct from Sam Lyons...

http://www.lyonsstudio.com/shopping/start.php

Good luck.... I hate horrible customer service.. It is the #1 reason why companies lose clients..
 
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Sporty's Vice-President, Jack Lynch, contacted me this evening and has offered to refund me what I paid for the framing for the two pictures (roughly $200). From there I can pay my local framer to re-frame both (although that will be more costly).

I will call him back tomorrow, accept his offer, and when my card is credited as per his offer I will consider this matter resolved to my satisfaction and will happily continue to do business with Sporty's. I appreciate Sporty's efforts to make this right - I just wish it wouldn't have had to come to this in the first place.
 
Sporty's still sucks. Over priced crap and rip off "pilot" gizmos. Never found anything there I could not find 20% cheaper some where else. :no:
 
jesse said:
Sporty's Vice-President, Jack Lynch, contacted me this evening and has offered to refund me what I paid for the framing for the two pictures (roughly $200). From there I can pay my local framer to re-frame both (although that will be more costly).

I will call him back tomorrow, accept his offer, and when my card is credited as per his offer I will consider this matter resolved to my satisfaction and will happily continue to do business with Sporty's. I appreciate Sporty's efforts to make this right - I just wish it wouldn't have had to come to this in the first place.
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Hopefully you're get a chance to speak with Mr. Lynch about how the matter was handled by the folks on the phone.

In addition to how the policy was interpreted by the CSR's, how they handled you was not proper. I agree with the above that you should not have been sent to a voice mail to plead the case.

Sounds like Mr. Lynch should be advised that a training and improvement opportunity exists.
 
Tell them you won't be happy unless they also give you oneof those cloud level detection devices.
 
My only real customer service disorder with Sporty's was when they sent me a pair of defective chocks. I spent ten minutes trying to explain what was wrong with them to the agent. The two pieces are supposed to be mirror images (there's a rope coming out a hole present only on one side) so that the rope stays on one side of the wheel or the other. The set they sent had two of the same side so that if you attempted to place the chock under the tire the rope wants to pass through where the tire is.
They just gave up trying to understand what was going on and sent me a new pair.

Years later when I got my second hangar (with it's attached workshop), I finally drilled another hole in the errant chock and now I have a set at both places.
 
flyingron said:
My only real customer service disorder with Sporty's was when they sent me a pair of defective chocks. I spent ten minutes trying to explain what was wrong with them to the agent. The two pieces are supposed to be mirror images (there's a rope coming out a hole present only on one side) so that the rope stays on one side of the wheel or the other. The set they sent had two of the same side so that if you attempted to place the chock under the tire the rope wants to pass through where the tire is.
They just gave up trying to understand what was going on and sent me a new pair.

Years later when I got my second hangar (with it's attached workshop), I finally drilled another hole in the errant chock and now I have a set at both places.
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How the hell does some mistake that STUPID make it past the shipping guy/gal at the vendor????:dunno::dunno::dunno:
 
Jesse: Glad your happy. Seems reasonable to me but more importantly, reasonable to you. Hope you suggested they add the disclaimer about "custom" items to the return policy.

Cheers
 
We could start by having all pilots that go to OSH go by their booth and complain about the return policy.
 
Hey, news flash for those who don't seem to have noticed: they responded in a very prompt manner and are making it right. The solution sounds reasonable to me and is reasonable to Jesse. Sounds to me like they did a good job, even though it would have been nice if they'd just done it right the first time. I'm happy with their response, too.
 
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