Spin Zone Opt-In?

gprellwitz

gprellwitz

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Grant Prellwitz
A suggestion to the MC:

Perhaps we should consider defaulting the SZ to be excluded from searches, but enable people to opt in on their preferences. IIRC, we've had a number of people who felt somewhat driven away from PoA after spending time in the SZ. I hate to lose good people that way.

Opinions? Discussion?
 
Purple board has made it opt in. Not a bad idea. New people to PoA get the SZ by default and it is a different neighborhood than they may be used to and sometimes do not realize that the SZ denizens know each other well enough to be bantering in a friendly way that appears to be something different.

Instead the newbies jump in and put their feet squarely in their mouths. When that happens and they realize their mistake they are far too often too embarrassed to admit their error and instead leave.
 
Waht is funny is that I also have the SZ on ignore.

I go there as a separate function form the rest of PoA. When I hit new posts I do not want to see the SZ stuff pop up.

If the SZ were to become opt in I would also like there to be a way to still keep the searches separate.
 
Maybe people can try not to take the SZ so personally or seriously? Its just a web forum to discuss stuff, not and indictment on anybody's views, intelligence or perspective.

Chill out people.
 
Anthony said:
Maybe people can try not to take the SZ so personally or seriously? Its just a web forum to discuss stuff, not and indictment on anybody's views, intelligence or perspective.

Chill out people.
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With respect, Anthony,
On the old "Red Board", this horse was beaten to death many, many times. The answer seems to be a definite no. People who want to engage in the type of cyber discourse can't separate passion from keyboard. This has been proven over and over again, to the point of shutting down whole forums in order to allow passions to cool. The ability to opt out, as I have said in an earlier post re: Ray's imminent departure, is a great feature of this particular board.
As for the opt in, if I can still opt out of SZ, then I'm all for it.
Keith
 
Anthony said:
Maybe people can try not to take the SZ so personally or seriously? Its just a web forum to discuss stuff, not and indictment on anybody's views, intelligence or perspective.

Chill out people.
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Haha, for once I agree with Anthony! I like reading what other people have to say even if I don't agree with it. Sometimes it becomes boring and repetitive but that's when I quit reading.

I don't care if it's opt in or opt out, I just don't want it to be a cumbersome process like it is on another board where you need to e-mail someone to open the forum for you.
 
Keith Lane said:
The ability to opt out, as I have said in an earlier post re: Ray's imminent departure, is a great feature of this particular board.
As for the opt in, if I can still opt out of SZ, then I'm all for it.
Keith
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I think the opt out feature is fine. I have no problem with that. And I remember the Red Board fiasco, just didn't participate in that malarky. I guess I just don't take this stuff personally and if I did, I'd just stop participating in SZ.
 
Keith Lane said:
With respect, Anthony,
On the old "Red Board", this horse was beaten to death many, many times. The answer seems to be a definite no. People who want to engage in the type of cyber discourse can't separate passion from keyboard. This has been proven over and over again, to the point of shutting down whole forums in order to allow passions to cool. The ability to opt out, as I have said in an earlier post re: Ray's imminent departure, is a great feature of this particular board.
As for the opt in, if I can still opt out of SZ, then I'm all for it.
Keith
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One big difference between the red board and the SZ here is that psychopaths from the red board were run out of here with some MC help, they were banned for life. The red board never, ever, once tried to moderate the psycos. Even when the psychopaths were threatening violence towards people for their views.
 
smigaldi said:
One big difference between the red board and the SZ here is that psychopaths from the red board were run out of here with some MC help, they were banned for life. The red board never, ever, once tried to moderate the psychos. Even when the psychopaths were threatening violence toward people for their views.
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I believe only in more violent methods when it comes forcing all pilots to agree that a high wing is the only plane to fly. That pretty much boils down to forcing a pilot to get in and out of his low-wing during rain showers.

:D
 
Please keep your discussion going on this for the next day or two, and the Management Council will watch and see what you think-- and it may take a few days to review that discussion and decide on any action.
 
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smigaldi said:
Is there anyway to set the feature to default to ignore upon one's initial joining of PoA?
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Or, we could have a pre-selected list of members for new folks to ignore for their own mental health? :D

On a serious note, Scott... how are you able to pull up the non-SZ stuff and later pull up only the SZ threads?
 
Ron Levy said:
Please keep your discussion going on this for the next day or two, and the Management Council will watch and see what you think-- and it may take a few days to review that discussion and decide on any action.
Click to expand...

This is going to sound a little strange coming from me, I suppose, but the SZ and the entire site seems just fine the way it is. We're all grown people, and have to make decisions for ourselves. I made one, based on what I believed I was doing to the site. Many of you graciously said I had reached the decision in error. It's a learning process, like anything else. Any man or woman that is incapable of learning shouldn't be a pilot. One man's opinion.
 
KennyFlys said:
On a serious note, Scott... how are you able to pull up the non-SZ stuff and later pull up only the SZ threads?
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Real easy.

First I opted out of SZ.

you do that by: To Opt Out of the Spin Zone (or any other forum), go to the User CP, select Options, and the Opt Out controls are all the way down.

Select SZ.

Then when you hit new posts you will not see anything in the SZ.

To look at SZ I then go to hangar talk and select the SZ link at the top of the page. Then I will only see SZ.

It is nice to do because when I first come in I can look at all the aviation stuff without the noise. Then when I am ready to go the SZ I have purposely select it.
 
smigaldi said:
Real easy.

First I opted out of SZ.

you do that by: To Opt Out of the Spin Zone (or any other forum), go to the User CP, select Options, and the Opt Out controls are all the way down.

Select SZ.

Then when you hit new posts you will not see anything in the SZ.

To look at SZ I then go to hangar talk and select the SZ link at the top of the page. Then I will only see SZ.

It is nice to do because when I first come in I can look at all the aviation stuff without the noise. Then when I am ready to go the SZ I have purposely select it.
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Ahhhh... ok, thanks.

Now, back to regularly scheduled superiority as a conservative. :D
 
And basically the way Scott has it set up is the way I'd suggest having it set for all new accounts. Anyone is certainly free to include the SZ in the New Posts and other searches merely by going in to the options and including the forum. And Ray, your point is good. My fear, though, is that we have people coming in and SILENTLY leaving before we can pass on the pearls of wisdom. That's one of the reasons that people often welcome newcomers with a warm "hello, but beware the Spin Zone" message.

Either way, it begs the question of how we handle people who lurk but haven't become actual members. Do we make the SZ visible or not? I would probably opt to make it visible, because at that point they have no "skin" in the game. It's at that point that someones feelings can wind up getting unintentionally hurt.

I was about to say "yes, I know we're all adults here", but really, that is NOT true! We have a number of "yutes" here, and they are very welcome contributors! We can learn things from the youngest among us,
 
smigaldi said:
Waht is funny is that I also have the SZ on ignore.

I go there as a separate function form the rest of PoA. When I hit new posts I do not want to see the SZ stuff pop up.

If the SZ were to become opt in I would also like there to be a way to still keep the searches separate.
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You opt out in order to keep your post count down, Scott? :D

Personally, I think this place would be more civil if we got rid of this: :rolleyes:. While I've probably fallen into the trap of using it too, at some point you lose your guy card status by its overuse. :) In most bars I've been in if you start rolling your eyes at someone, the other patrons will "fix that for ya." Permanently.
 
I am one of the rec.aviation refugees, recently arrived.

I was told that this board was as good as rec.aviation used to be, without the flamewars and irrelevant name calling which now dominate on Usenet. So I came over and signed up...

It took me a while to get used to the web-based interface (and it is still not as fast and easy to use as a Usenet newsreader for me), but while I was learning I noticed that whenever I clicked on "New Posts" I got to see huge numbers of flamewars on non-aviation topics. I nearly gave up on this board and went elsewhere before I saw a posting explaining in detail how to filter out the Spin Zone.

So here is the opinion of one newcomer: yes, I think it would be worthwhile to make the Spin Zone be filtered out by default. That way newcomers can experience the wonderful aviation-related conversation on this board, and only venture into the cage match once they know what they are doing (and once they know how to properly use filters to control the dose)...

Chris
 
Thanks Chris, that's exactly what I'm thinking of. I just hope that a) it's possible to implement from a technical standpoint and b) the MC opts to do it.
 
I don't golf, and I don't go to SZ - two stressors less in my life ... :)
 
If the Spin Zone isn't an opt-in, then at the very least, strongly suggest that newcomers consider opting out of the Spin Zone.
 
I will look into how feasible this is as part of preparing for the MC discussions.
 
I have spent virtually no time on forums, blogs or whatever other name people use for computer communications. Similar to the un-soloed student pilot, I have much to learn. In reading all that has been written in the past couple of days, a glimmer of understanding has presented itself and, quite frankly I'm a bit shocked. This Spin Zone is a place where those so inclined are allowed to put aside civility, to exorcise their demons, if you will. It's acceptable to be rude to ladies, for a junior officer to show total disrespect for a senior officer and military tradition in general, a place where someone who otherwise claims to be a gentleman becomes a total cretin. And this is acceptable because he pushes one button instead of another?

In the world where I have spent so many years, pilots are the epitome of ladies and gentlemen. Period. Pilots who adhere to the informal but rigid rules of conduct ostracize those few pilots who choose to wallow in the gutter. Perhaps that makes me a throwback of some sort, but it has been a good way to live. We face enough dangers in the air without having to worry about our peers when we are on the ground. After reviewing this new understanding, I cannot help wondering why a Spin Zone even exists on a pilots' forum. I would have thought people who wanted to "get crazy" would do so on sites where such a thing is the norm. And perhaps it's simply that I still don't understand everything involved. But I'm learning.
 
2256Q said:
I have spent virtually no time on forums, blogs or whatever other name people use for computer communications. Similar to the un-soloed student pilot, I have much to learn. In reading all that has been written in the past couple of days, a glimmer of understanding has presented itself and, quite frankly I'm a bit shocked. This Spin Zone is a place where those so inclined are allowed to put aside civility, to exorcise their demons, if you will. It's acceptable to be rude to ladies, for a junior officer to show total disrespect for a senior officer and military tradition in general, a place where someone who otherwise claims to be a gentleman becomes a total cretin. And this is acceptable because he pushes one button instead of another?
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Our Spin Zone is tame compared to other places on the internet. It's definitely no worse that talk radio or the opinions section of some newspapers. I don't know why it's suddenly become such a controversial topic again. I find it interesting to read and occasionally like to add my two cents... just like in the other parts of the board. It seems like most people who don't want to participate have figured out how to opt out. Even before there was an opt out option you could skip over the messages. I don't open every thread. I can ususally tell from the thread title whether or not it is going to interest me. We (well, some people in the SZ anyway ;)) complain about the "nanny state". I don't think there should be a "nanny state" here either.
 
Everskyward said:
Our Spin Zone is tame compared to other places on the internet. It's definitely no worse that talk radio or the opinions section of some newspapers. I don't know why it's suddenly become such a controversial topic again. I find it interesting to read and occasionally like to add my two cents... just like in the other parts of the board. It seems like most people who don't want to participate have figured out how to opt out. Even before there was an opt out option you could skip over the messages. I don't open every thread. I can ususally tell from the thread title whether or not it is going to interest me. We (well, some people in the SZ anyway ;)) complain about the "nanny state". I don't think there should be a "nanny state" here either.
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I guess my point is that we are ladies and gentlemen as a matter of choice. We were that mantle because it's comfortable, once we learn the self-discipline required. The entire concept merely seems strange to me, this Jeckyl and Hyde thing. Having the self-discipline of a lady or gentleman would negate the necessity of a "nanny state". Or so it seems to me.
 
smigaldi said:
Is there anyway to set the feature to default to ignore upon one's initial joining of PoA?
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That's what the MC is thinking about, and we'll make that decision based in part on what you folks say here. We can also set the registration area so new members are asked explicitly whether they want into the SZ (with an explanation of what that means). Obviously, any new member can now elect to ignore the SZ, but many new members don't understand the ramifications of the SZ, and don't choose to do so until they've received a big dose of something distasteful to them -- which may be a situation we want to change.
 
MC: In the interest of growing our POA family it would be in our best interest to institute an "opt-in" as opposed to the opposite (IMHO).
 
Ron Levy said:
Please stay on topic here -- we are only looking at this one item at this time. Extraneous posts just make it harder for us to get your opinion on that topic.
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It is on topic. The over arching discussion is how to ensure that PoA remains a friendly place.

The MC has posted on several occasion that they would like a level of self policing of posts. Reputation allows for that type of self policing. When people get instant feedback on their behaviors it can go to improve a situation that would otherwise spiral out of control.

The lose of reputation also, IMHO, coincided with a dramatic increase of flaming.

You asked for our input and I am giving it to you. If you really are not interested in people's opinions then please do not pretend to solicit it.
 
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This almost drove me away in the early days. As a matter of fact, I even posted in the spin zone (one of my early posts) asking why there was so much talk about religion and politics in a flying forum. I was a newb at the time and hadn't taken the time to learn what the spin zone was or that you could ignore it. The best thing I ever did was put it on ignore.

+1 for a default ignore. I think it'll help to keep the newbies around longer.
 
My $0.02 worth - opt in, rather than opt out for SZ would be a good idea, for all the reasons expressed above. If you don't know what you're walking into, it can be a bit intimidating. And, I'm getting sufficiently tired of it that I'm going to mark it "ignore" too. Scott has a good point on why to do that and I'll agree with him there.
 
The Spin Zone is only what one makes it to be. I generally don't go there but don't need it opted in or out.
 
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