Some Rotting Planes

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by SixPapaCharlie, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    +1000. I got a call from the hang gliding park, they haven't sold my old glider yet, wanted to lower the price to $1500. I said lower it to $1000 if necessary, I'd much rather see it in the hands of someone who can use it rather than hold out for more money.
     
  2. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    Why on earth would you want to shorten your time at a superior airport and awesome helpful neighbors?

    Kids these days.
     
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  3. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    Wow, that's quite a fleet.

    My feelings are is if you aren't using it, get rid of it. If things change and you need it again, you can buy another one. Chances are for every item you'll want back, there will be 10 you don't.

    The more stuff you have, the more stuff you have to take care of, and at some point your possessions wind up owning you.
     
  4. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

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    I am at KDVT (Deer Valley), supposedly the busiest GA airport in the country...half the planes in covered tie downs look like this lol
     
  5. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There is a C-425 sitting here at the airport. I used to fly it, really nice plane. But the owner sold the business and the plane for some reason did not go with the business. Now it just sits, and waits..... for what, I do not know.

    The mechanic was asked to see what it would take to get it flying again. He pulled it into the hanger and went through it. He told me it is going to take a lot to get it flying again, so much that he refused to work on it. This is a very knowledgeable mechanic. I have no problem getting in a plane after he has worked on it.
     
  6. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I agree with you fully, and we tend to keep our stock fairly lean for that reason. Yeah, we have toys, but they're toys that for the most part are usable, and even then we get rid of the ones we don't use. Except the motorcycles, although even those may be on their way out... need to talk about that further. We don't keep rotting things around to maybe do something with someday. Having seen some folks die and leave big messes behind, that helps drive it home. But we'll see how I think in 50 years.

    One other thing that comes into play is that many of those dying today were raised with some degree of depression-era mentality, even though only the oldest remember the depression first hand. Those folks tend to hold onto more things they "might need", whereas the younger generations tend to get rid of what they don't need (CraigsList makes that so easy...) and then buy things back when they do need them.

    Like I said, we're somewhat debating this on the motorcycles. We bought them when we were first married with the intent of doing some trips. We haven't ridden much since kids, and with our son starting kindergarten next week (I'll be driving him every day), that means no more riding to work. I'd like to go riding, but the riding I want to do involves going someplace where the roads are nicer, renting a couple of nice new Harleys from the dealer, and riding out there. Not here in the flatlands. So, we might sell them and put the money towards something else.

    They should donate it! :yes: :yes: :yes:
     
  7. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    No kidding.

    I was hanging siding with a guy who wouldn't go up the ladder because there were some of those nests in the eves. I just went up and knocked them down so we could get the job done.
     
  8. jsstevens

    jsstevens En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Also there's the inertia of doing something about the airplane (or whatever) when you're dealing with other things. "I'll get to it. I've got plenty of time." And before you know it, years pile up.
     
  9. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My dad grew up during the depression. He almost never threw anything away. When I was 10 my dad tore down a barn to get the lumber. My job was to pull the nails. He got onto me for bending the nails. Then he showed me how to pull without bending. After I got all the nails, he sorted them by size and put them in glass jars. 48 years later those nails are now in my garage...... I have turned into my dad.

    That has been discussed. I think the problem now is finding someone to pull the wings and truck it to Tennessee or Kentucky. The mechanic here won't do it because of money owed to him that hasn't been paid. I may try to work a deal to buy the plane and deduct the cost of getting it flying again from the buying price.
     
  10. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    The cost and ease that exists with procuring items these days (the consumerist economy) has changed a lot in that regard. It ends up costing me less to buy new nails than it would to get old ones. Pretty crazy. It's incredible how much more we can do in a life now, although it's also incredible how much less living it seems many do.

    My grandparents got married during the depression. They didn't throw much away. My grandmother sewed me pillows and curtains when I was a kid, even though she was completely able to afford buying me ones. But some of it was also doing things herself. My kids now use the pillows that were in my crib when I was a baby, and I tell them that my grandmother made said pillows.

    Why Tennessee or Kentucky? My thought would be Kansas City. I know a non-profit that would love to have it. :D
     
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  11. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    Yep, sometimes it's just sentimental. Too many fun years and adventures and they just don't want to let go.

    I have my first computer in the basement, in a box; TI 99/4A. While I started learning on a TRS 80 model 1, that's where I really go going, wrote and sold software. I haven't turned it on in 30+ years. I get a little sad thinking I'll be throwing it away soon; we're downsizing the house in the next year or two. My wife asked about it tossing it out ~20 years ago and I told her if she did I'd toss out our dining room set (her grandmother's). She never brought it up again. ;)

    Yeah, not an airplane that's chewing up hangar rental money every month, nor is it particularly useful for anyone else like a plane would be. Same basic principle though, sentimental value. Just in a box on shelves with lots of other boxes; which mostly hold stuff we do use on a regular basis such as seasonal decorations.
     
  12. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think they were talking to an aircraft mechanic school in one of those states about donating the plane, but the school would not take it unless it is delivered to their door.

    What is the place in Kansas City? I'll be happy to pass on any information.
     
  13. Davecat

    Davecat Pre-Flight

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    Walk any Marina and you see the same phenomena. Big boy toys rotting away and likely paying $10-15/ft dock fee per month. Kemah Texas docks are filled with dying dreams.
     
  14. Anymouse

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    Another airplane, another airport...

    Back in '96 or so, my former flying club sold a Cardinal RG. I really liked that plane, but it really needed to go since the club was on the verge of bankruptcy. Several months later I saw it tied down outside on the ramp at a nearby airport. One that was closer to me. It obviously hadn't flown for quite a while since the tires were flat.

    I asked one of the FBO workers if he knew anything about the plane. He said it hadn't moved for months and that a student pilot had bought the plane.

    I got the owner's info from the FBO and gave the guy a call. I offered to fly it for him. Told him I would pay for my share of insurance, always keep it full of gas and contribute into a maintenance fund. Essentially acting as a 1/2 owner without the equity investment. He said he would think about it.

    About a week or so later I get a call from him. He said his CFI advised him not to accept my offer. He gave no reason other than that. He didn't bother telling me who his CFI was either. I mentioned the state of the aircraft and that it needed attention. He denied that it was that bad and basically called me a liar. Months later the plane still hadn't moved.

    I have no idea whatever happened to that plane.
     
  15. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    Airplane owners and boat owners.
    They define themselves by the toy they own, so they never sell them. If they did they wouldn't be an airplane or boat owner.
     
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  16. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    There's a Toga with leather club seating, G500, etc sitting in a hangar here. I've been really active at TUP since 2010 and it hasn't moved since then afaik. Reg lapsed over a year ago.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
  17. Craig

    Craig Line Up and Wait

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    Ted: Get you something with a sidecar to take the young one to school. That's what I've done, just need to overhaul the carbs on it and new tires and get the license plate and it will be ready to go.
     
  18. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    PM sent. :)

    We've thought about that. However I won't ride a motorcycle on the route that I take him to school, so I definitely won't do that with him in it. Call me a wimp, but I'll take my Mercedes or F-350 (both tanks) for driving in the city.
     
  19. colojo

    colojo Line Up and Wait

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    I found an active wasp nest in my gas barbecue last year (we were away traveling for a while) so I duct taped all the openings shut and lit 'er up! Extremely satisfying.
     
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  20. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    care to PM me the tail #? ;)
     
  21. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

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    Could it be the one??? :fcross:
     
  22. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I've found that more than once. And yes, lighting it up is very satisfying. Usually you don't need to duct tape the openings, though. Just turn it all on and they won't fly towards the heat. They just burn.
     
  23. AGL

    AGL Filing Flight Plan

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    Always interesting to see these planes rotting. At least some of them have a happy ending! I can't post links yet, but google 'thisoldcherkee', or add a dot com to the end of that . I'm sure some of you have heard the story before. A guy tracked down the owner of a derelict piper, and the owner sold it for $1k. It's back flying! thisoldcherokee.com
     
  24. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    MRN AGL ?
     
  25. AGL

    AGL Filing Flight Plan

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  26. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Any day now...
     
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  27. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I had to go back and look. Yes, that is interesting.
     
  28. Vaflier

    Vaflier Pre-takeoff checklist

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    To some of us, perhaps many of us, our airplanes are not just exspensive toys or some sort of status symbol. They are the culmination of a lifelong , childhood dream come true. I know it is that way for me. From the time I was 5 years old I dreamed of flying among the clouds and promised myself I would do so. The day I bought my airplane was the second best day of my life, the first was my wedding day. I will have trouble selling my airplane when the time comes. As for my wife, well..............
     
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  29. Frogs97

    Frogs97 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Seeing that Navion almost makes me want to cry. Too cool of a plane to wither away like that.
     
  30. colojo

    colojo Line Up and Wait

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    I sealed the openings so they couldn't flee!
     
  31. brian]

    brian] Cleared for Takeoff

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    It is worth taking pics and posting to forums like this one. I believe I heard Navion friends talk about finding parts they needed. I DO know that several of us early Bonanza owners exchange information like this. There are at least two groups that will try to acquire the aircraft for parts. It's sad to see them parted out, but in the end, others of us are need those parts to keep our insanity going ...
     
  32. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I have been a Navion owner for 22 years and joined the American Navion Society a few years before that. I spent four years on the board and am still a voting member of the society. Parts, by and large, are not a problem. The ANS runs a parts inventory consisting of new parts, new old stock accumulated from various sources (dealers that went out of business, etc..), and a few we've had manufactured, some under PMA, some under the "owner produced" provisions of the FARs. Frankly, the only thing I know that is hard to get are flap hinges (what gets busted in gear ups), but even entire wings are available. Some of the older engines are getting harder to find parts for, but the Bonanza guys have the same issues, both used the E series Continentals and the IO's they morphed into over the years.

    Anyhow, this one is going to be challenging (but not impossible) to put in the air. First off, you're going to have to go on a rubber hunt. I can almost bet there are 65 year old hoses and seals lurking in that. You'd be insane not to split the wings at this point (easier to move an unflyable plane that way anyhow). Pull the fuel tanks, look for corrosion, put new chafe tape on them, new hoses. Replace the fuel selector, put new gaskets in the gascolator, send the engine and the carb out for an overhaul. Have someone knowledgable check over the gear (but unless abused these are probably OK, but there are a couple of weak/wear spots that are fairly easy to inspect and correct). The rest is pretty much the same as any other aircraft. The service documentation is available from the ANS or even online.
     
  33. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

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    Not many weep for the cars and trucks that get crushed everyday, that's mostly because they disappear efficiently at the time they exceed their economic usefulness. There is a massive, well developed infrastructure in place to recycle cars and trucks. Now airplanes and boats, that's another story.

    The truth everyone here knows is, there are more airplanes in existence than there are pilots willing to pay to fly them. We also know that all of the planes shown in this thread and the thousands like all over the nation left over from the heyday, are done. They are economically not viable in any way. There is just no easy way to scrap them all. Just like the planes themselves, there are more good used parts than there are people willing to buy them. Likely the owners would have to pay to have them removed, so they rather they sit and they can remember the old days.

    The only way I can see some of these old ramp queens getting into the sky again is if the FAA would ever allow people to people to change the certification status on them from certified to a new experimental category with all the same privileges as the E/AB folks enjoy now. Then many of these planes would become projects as people could work on them themselves, get cheaper parts for them and well, experiment on them.
     
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  34. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    A Navion is, by definition, a number of hydraulic leaks flying in close formation.
     
  35. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    But what about the children?

    This is what seems to be just beyond comprehension. I can fabricate / modify to my hearts content and pretty much nobody cares - heck, I even put drilling holes in the main wing spar on youtube. But, letting someone work on an effing Cub without paying for proper signatures all along the way - THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!
     
  36. KRyan

    KRyan Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That Navion has old Hartzell "Hartzite" blades. No O/H manual for those. I think they were made to be disposable/replaceable. Haven't been made since the early 50's, I believe.
     
  37. SixPapaCharlie

    SixPapaCharlie May the force be with you

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    It's interesting you bring that up. I was looking at the propeller and some of the paint had chipped off of one of the blades and I wasn't sure what it was made out of some kind of fibers or something. I'll take a close up photo next time I'm out there
     
  38. KRyan

    KRyan Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You can see in the photo the blades have riveted leading edges, just like a wood propeller, but the blades are not wood. They are made of resin-impregnated cotton cloth.
     
  39. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

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    Must have been mounted by Dodge... they did something like that with the 225 slant 6....LOL
     
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  40. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I heard that the factory was located on a hill at that time....