Some doctors are morons.

[PaulS]

A family member with some type of medical background who lives out of state occurs with some regularity.

We also have a saying "Beware of a nurse with a briefcase."
Either of these situations can make a physician's life miserable.

That describes my sister in law, she challenged many MDs......... her cadaver kidney transplant husband survived 28 years with the same kidney despite the odds being stacked against him because of the condition that caused his issue in the first place. His transplant doctor attributed his survival to his nurse wife and more specifically her interventions in the hospital, during his many stays because of issues with the AR drugs, when doctors would invariably recommend a procedure that would have hurt him, I'm sure those doctors didn't like her, but in the end she was right.

Contrary to some of the stories here, she was instrumental in the end in assuring his wishes were met (no extraordinary procedures, no intubation and that he be allowed to die with dignity)..... I pray that I am so well cared for should l ever need it.

That said, I'm not denigrating doctors here, my brother in law would not have survived as long as he did without the care of great doctors. But having a knowledgeable advocate by his side helped him immensely.

 

[Gary F]

That describes my sister in law, she challenged many MDs......... her cadaver kidney transplant husband survived 28 years with the same kidney despite the odds being stacked against him because of the condition that caused his issue in the first place. His transplant doctor attributed his survival to his nurse wife and more specifically her interventions in the hospital, during his many stays because of issues with the AR drugs, when doctors would invariably recommend a procedure that would have hurt him, I'm sure those doctors didn't like her, but in the end she was right.

Contrary to some of the stories here, she was instrumental in the end in assuring his wishes were met (no extraordinary procedures, no intubation and that he be allowed to die with dignity)..... I pray that I am so well cared for should l ever need it.

That said, I'm not denigrating doctors here, my brother in law would not have survived as long as he did without the care of great doctors. But having a knowledgeable advocate by his side helped him immensely.

Much depends on the training (physician, nurse, physical therapist, radiology tech, pharmacist, acupuncturist) of the relative and the relationship to the patient. Most of the time it goes well but if I have just spent 20 minutes discussing it to the local crowd it's no fun to start over on the phone. In many cases the medical relative will tell the family that they agree with the plan or will help the family resolve internal conflicts.

 

[weilke]

That describes my sister in law, she challenged many MDs......... her cadaver kidney transplant husband survived 28 years with the same kidney despite the odds being stacked against him because of the condition that caused his issue in the first place. His transplant doctor attributed his survival to his nurse wife and more specifically her interventions in the hospital, during his many stays because of issues with the AR drugs, when doctors would invariably recommend a procedure that would have hurt him, I'm sure those doctors didn't like her, but in the end she was right.

The problem is not the caregiver who has medical training. The problem is phd-nurse-daughter from california who hasn't seen mom in 9 months and didn't notice how much she had slipped in the meantime. In agreement with the treating physician, the other kids have decided not to go to steps like putting in a feeding tube, pacemaker etc. Now, phd-nurse-daughter shows up and wants to 'do something'. Suddenly you have family strife, disagreements and and before you know it, mom has a feeding tube, a bladder tube and a pacemaker and phd-nurse-daughter flutters away back to california.

 

[PaulS]

The problem is not the caregiver who has medical training. The problem is phd-nurse-daughter from california who hasn't seen mom in 9 months and didn't notice how much she had slipped in the meantime. In agreement with the treating physician, the other kids have decided not to go to steps like putting in a feeding tube, pacemaker etc. Now, phd-nurse-daughter shows up and wants to 'do something'. Suddenly you have family strife, disagreements and and before you know it, mom has a feeding tube, a bladder tube and a pacemaker and phd-nurse-daughter flutters away back to california.

Yeah, that sounds like a lousy situation. A phd nurse should know better, that sounds like elder abuse in my book, but it sounds like the doctors hands are tied.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

It's very difficult on all sides in this situation. We just had a little taste of it with my 85 yo FIL and a non- emergent heart problem that was discovered during another procedure. On the one hand, some folks can talk a good game about wanting death with dignity and such, but when staring the grim reaper in the maw, well, it can be hard to walk the walk.

On the other, there are over-zealous specialists who want to treat, totality of the circumstance be damned. My SIL is well respected MD who lives in the area, and had to insert herself. Her opinion is such now that she recommends having a patient advocate when being admitted to hospital. Egos do get involved, and sometimes all sides have to be reminded to take a breath.

 

[PaulS]

It's very difficult on all sides in this situation. We just had a little taste of it with my 85 yo FIL and a non- emergent heart problem that was discovered during another procedure. On the one hand, some folks can talk a good game about wanting death with dignity and such, but when staring the grim reaper in the maw, well, it can be hard to walk the walk.

On the other, there are over-zealous specialists who want to treat, totality of the circumstance be damned. My SIL is well respected MD who lives in the area, and had to insert herself. Her opinion is such now that she recommends having a patient advocate when being admitted to hospital. Egos do get involved, and sometimes all sides have to be reminded to take a breath.

Sorry about your FIL. You are right, none of this is easy.... I've seen it many times now and have had health care proxy responsibility with my two now deceased elderly uncles. For me anyway, each decision was agonizing in the end, and I, a non medical professional advocate whom my uncles trusted needed to make the decisions when they got to the point they couldn't.

One incident that comes to mind was in the last few weeks of my uncle's life, he had a foley catheter in and had developed an infection, he was in a lot of pain, so I told the hospice nurse I was calling his doctor for antibiotic, she got upset and told me she was going to pull him off of hospice as hospice was palliative care and I was trying to cure him (which wasn't true). So I called his doctor and left him message as to what was going on ( it was early on a Sunday morning...) The doc called me back in about five minutes and told me treating the infection was appropriate, he told me that disease (specifically this infection) is painful and he considered relieving that pain with antibiotic palliative. He told me I was right calling him and to call him anytime with questions. This doctor, was in the same office and covering for my uncle's long time doctor. This incident reinforced my belief that you get the best care when you establish a good relationship with a GP. In the end, his doctor made several house calls to my uncle, which I thought was unheard of, until the next uncle got to this point and his doctor did the same thing.........

 

[weilke]

Yeah, that sounds like a lousy situation. A phd nurse should know better, that sounds like elder abuse in my book, but it sounds like the doctors hands are tied.

Sometimes there are also differences between who is officially in a decision making position and who is not. The trusted kid may have a healthcare proxy but then the 'educated' relatives get in the mix. The kid with the proxy (who is usually in their 60s themselves at that point) is afraid that the other relatives accuse him/her of neglecting their parent if they go along with a hospice plan or limits on interventions (do not resuscitate orders etc.). Getting the paperwork in order (through a healthcare proxy, power of attorney etc.) is only one part of this, having an open conversation with everyone involved about wishes and priorities is just as important.

 

[Florida Cracker]

YEP!

Some Doctors are morons.

Some mechanics are morons.

Some lawyers are morons.

Some Judges are MORONS.

Some DENTISTS are morons.

Some priests are morons.


Yep. The world is full off vocations that have the random moron involved.

 

[Doggtyred]

But having a knowledgeable advocate by his side helped him immensely.

Amen. And when I have such a person I am truly grateful.

What I find frustrating, as I'm sure many other practitioners, is someone with SOME knowledge, or who lacks expertise in the relevant problems, or who is advocating not on behalf of the patient but on behalf of their own beliefs that they bring to the table.