Some Basic Questions RE: PPL

[themaffeo]

First, if there is a Sticky or wiki on this..sorry! please let me know - I'm sure these questions are asked regularly.

I recently went on a "flight-tour" where i got to pilot the plane for 30 min around the bay area.... and i had a blast! Enough to get me curious about how practical a ppl would be.

1) Let's say I've achieved my PPL, and I took my test in a C-152. What aircraft can I now fly? Or more specifically, how do I know I'm certified to fly any given plane? For example: I imagine I would be allowed to fly a C-172 without additional instruction, but doubt I could fly a 737 (you know, if i had an extra $20MM lying around).

2) Are there rules, outside being cleared to take off by the tower, that dictate when and in what weather I can fly? For example, is night flying OK? What about rain? I.e. do i need additional training for those scenarios.

3) Aircraft rentals I've seen range from $100/hr and up. Let's say I fly from SF to Santa Barbara on a thurs, and fly back on a sunday. Total flight time is ~5 hrs, but total time I had the plane in my possession is closer to 80ish. Am I paying $500 or 8g's?

4) What's a ballpark insurance rate for a new pilot that provides reliable coverage (i have 100k/500k coverage with my car with a large deductible)

I think that covers it..

thanks!

 

[midlifeflyer]

Hi Nathan! Welcome

As part of your training, you'll be studying FAA rules about the privileges and limitations of your certificates, the "rules of the road" of flying (including weather limitations), so your first 2 questions will be covered.

To give short versions, you'll know what airplanes you are permitted to fly because (1) you'll learn that, if you are going to get your private license, your first certificate/rating will likely be "Private Pilots, Airplane Single-Engine Land." Pretty much means that you are not authorized to fly a glider, balloon, helicopter or seaplane. Beyond that, you will learn the FAA's rules about additional requirements for certain types of single-engline land airplanes, like those with retractable gear, with engines higher than 200 HP and with tailwheels instead of nosewheels and the extra training for an instrument rating that will allow you to fly in weather conditions below certain minimum visual limits.

3) it depends. Aircraft rental is not as uniform as car rentals. Most rental aircraft are privately owned and rentals administered in a group. There are many variations on the theme but in most cases, you are paying for engine running time, although many places will have daily minimums if you are going to keep the airplane overnight (typically 2-3 hours).

4) Unfortunately, aviation insurance is not regulated the way auto insurance is. As a renter pilot you may or may not (usually not) be covered by the owner/operators policy. That's an important point because a lot of rental pilots think they are covered when they are not. For renter insurance, it's rare to be able to get a policy with more that $1 Million in coverage and even then, there would be a "per seat" limitation that is much lower. Best way to figure out approximate costs for such a policy is to go to AOPAIA or Avemco's website and run through an sample application. Coverage is generally split into liability (personal injury and property damage caused by you) and hull damage (like collision coverage for a car).

Does that help any?

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

First, if there is a Sticky or wiki on this..sorry! please let me know - I'm sure these questions are asked regularly.

I recently went on a "flight-tour" where i got to pilot the plane for 30 min around the bay area.... and i had a blast! Enough to get me curious about how practical a ppl would be.

1) Let's say I've achieved my PPL, and I took my test in a C-152. What aircraft can I now fly? Or more specifically, how do I know I'm certified to fly any given plane? For example: I imagine I would be allowed to fly a C-172 without additional instruction, but doubt I could fly a 737 (you know, if i had an extra $20MM lying around).

You will be good for most light single engine aircraft on wheels. Insurance and / or rental policies would dictate any additional training for different models of aircraft.

2) Are there rules, outside being cleared to take off by the tower, that dictate when and in what weather I can fly? For example, is night flying OK? What about rain? I.e. do i need additional training for those scenarios.

Yes. There are specific rules for minimum weather. You can fly at night (required as part of the private pilot training) you can fly in rain if you can see well enough. But at about 90% of the airports in this country you do NOT need to be cleared for takeoff by the tower because there is no tower.

3) Aircraft rentals I've seen range from $100/hr and up. Let's say I fly from SF to Santa Barbara on a thurs, and fly back on a sunday. Total flight time is ~5 hrs, but total time I had the plane in my possession is closer to 80ish. Am I paying $500 or 8g's?

Depends. Often there is a minimum number of hours per day kind of thing.

4) What's a ballpark insurance rate for a new pilot that provides reliable coverage (i have 100k/500k coverage with my car with a large deductible)

If you are a renter? Dunno. If you own the airplane, about $1000 per year - but there are huge variations based on the kind of airplane, your experience, etc.

Understand the difference between "Private Pilot" and "Sport Pilot" and be sure there won't be any issues getting the medical for the PP BEFORE you go for the physical and potentially end up shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[themaffeo]

thanks guys, that info helps a bunch!

 

[DaleB]

I recently went on a "flight-tour" where i got to pilot the plane for 30 min around the bay area.... and i had a blast! Enough to get me curious about how practical a ppl would be.

Sigh... when, oh when will the police start going after these crack dealers? Now you're hooked.

1) Let's say I've achieved my PPL, and I took my test in a C-152. What aircraft can I now fly? Or more specifically, how do I know I'm certified to fly any given plane? For example: I imagine I would be allowed to fly a C-172 without additional instruction, but doubt I could fly a 737 (you know, if i had an extra $20MM lying around).

You'll have a certificate for Airplane, Single Engine Land. That lets you legally fly anything with non-retractable tricycle gear (has a nose wheel), one engine with 200HP or less, and I think weighing under 12,500# gross.

Now, for the practical side... you'll be able to fly a C-152, rented from the place you learned to fly. If you get a checkout with an instructor, you'll be able to rent other planes, like a 172, Cherokee, etc. With more instructor time you can get endorsements for high performance (over 200HP), complex (retractable gear, constant speed prop, etc) , tailwheel, multi-engine, etc. If you want to rent these planes, you'll probably need a checkout with every place you want to rent until you have a considerable number of hours logged in each model.

For example -- the FBO where I fly has an Archer they rent out. If I want to fly the Archer, I will need to go up with one of their instructors for an hour or two and get checked out to make sure I can fly it safely.

On the other hand, I could go out tomorrow and buy an Archer and fly it with no requirement for further training. Might not be smart to do so.... but it's legal.

2) Are there rules, outside being cleared to take off by the tower, that dictate when and in what weather I can fly? For example, is night flying OK? What about rain? I.e. do i need additional training for those scenarios.

Night flying is OK. Rain is OK -- as long as your visibility is good enough to be VFR (visual flight rules). Crappy weather with low visibility -- you'll need an instrument rating for that.

3) Aircraft rentals I've seen range from $100/hr and up. Let's say I fly from SF to Santa Barbara on a thurs, and fly back on a sunday. Total flight time is ~5 hrs, but total time I had the plane in my possession is closer to 80ish. Am I paying $500 or 8g's?

Most rentals I have seen charge by the hour of Hobbs (run time meter) time, with a daily minimum if you're gone overnight. My local place has a 3 hour daily minimum -- so if it sits on the ramp somewhere for 2 days, I pay 6 hours rental plus what I actually fly. My flying club has no such rule; if I fly it an hour to get to Point B, let it sit for a week and fly it back, I pay for 2 hours. So it's going to vary based on where you rent from.

 

[dukeblue219]

Others have done an excellent job of answering your questions already, so I'll just throw in a few comments of my own.

1) Let's say I've achieved my PPL, and I took my test in a C-152. What aircraft can I now fly? Or more specifically, how do I know I'm certified to fly any given plane? For example: I imagine I would be allowed to fly a C-172 without additional instruction, but doubt I could fly a 737 (you know, if i had an extra $20MM lying around).

Anything that most folks would consider a "small single engine plane." You'll learn all about it in detail, but as long as it has wheels, wings, and one engine of 200 HP or less you're good. Of course, being allowed to use someone else's plane (i.e. by renting) will require you to do whatever they and their insurance company require. Usually that's a couple hours in the air with an instructor before they turn you lose.

2) Are there rules, outside being cleared to take off by the tower, that dictate when and in what weather I can fly? For example, is night flying OK? What about rain? I.e. do i need additional training for those scenarios.

Lots of people have the same idea of what a tower does, that they give you permission and say it's ok to fly. They are not the "sky police" or anything like that. You will be capable of flying at night or light rain (depending on visibility) but won't be allowed to fly in clouds until you get your instrument rating. However, the tower has no knowledge or control of that, nor even an idea if you have a license at all. If you want to go fly they'll clear you for takeoff whether it's legal for you to do so or not. It's up to you to know what you're allowed to do, and more importantly, what's safe for you to do. The tower just tries to keep planes from smacking into each other on the runway and traffic pattern. In fact, as another poster mentioned, most airports don't even have a control tower and it's no big deal.

3) Aircraft rentals I've seen range from $100/hr and up. Let's say I fly from SF to Santa Barbara on a thurs, and fly back on a sunday. Total flight time is ~5 hrs, but total time I had the plane in my possession is closer to 80ish. Am I paying $500 or 8g's?

Rentals are per hour the engine is operating, though most flight schools will have daily minimums which can be a significant obstacle for short trips, especially on weekends. Flying clubs, or owning a plane with a few partners, can alleviate this problem and provide more availability.

4) What's a ballpark insurance rate for a new pilot that provides reliable coverage (i have 100k/500k coverage with my car with a large deductible)

What you'd probably want at first is renter's insurance. You can get a quote through AOPA just to get an idea, but it's pretty inexpensive (maybe $100-$200 a year for liability insurance? I can't remember).

 

[themaffeo]

Thanks for the additional info! Great answers. I'm probably going to sit on this for a couple months before I invest the money, but everything sounds good so far!

 

[MAKG1]

Most of the restrictions on your flying come not from ATC nor from FAA regulations, but from insurance.

For example: Transitioning from Cessna 172 to Piper PA-28 is a nearly trivial transition; the aircraft fly very similarly. You can be safe in under an hour, easily. But insurance is going to require a few (for me, it was three hours -- two were used for a mountain flying checkout). You only have to be in the aircraft with another pilot for this. You aren't necessarily studying the aircraft's systems for the whole time. Certainly, you will for part of it.

Checking out at another location will often be much shorter. This is useful for vacations; for instance I rented a 172 in Vancouver, WA when I was there, with a 0.6 hour checkout (only that long because of truly weird local procedures at that airport -- it's one of the mythical nontowered Class D fields). We flew it for a few hours around the southern Washington Cascades and had a blast.

The basic private pilot license allows you a single engine land plane below 12,500 lb in visual conditions, with tricycle (nosegear) landing gear, <200 HP, unpressurized, and no more than two out of flaps, variable pitch propeller and retractible landing gear (non-complex). You can get add-ons (ratings) for all of those things. Some are more difficult than others; the big one is the instrument rating. Above 12,500 lb, you need a type rating; those are only good for one specific make and model.

I'm considering a high performance (200 HP or greater) endorsement at the moment, for a fixed-gear Cessna 182. Maybe a complex rating for a 177RG or TR182 (but retractibles are expensive).

The rule of thumb is that a rental light aircraft costs about $1/mile, and increase cost is largely offset by increased speed.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Let me be the first to say, "Welcome to PoA!" We are always happy to help another pilot get started. As you might have already noticed, there are lots of people who can guide you on your way.

Watch out, though, some of us have very strong opinions that are matched by others with equally strong opposite opinions. You haven't ventured into that arena yet.

So, with that, we've all been where you are. Some of us had an easy time and some of us stumbled along the way until we finally made it. It is a lot of fun and quite an accomplishment.