Solo flight - Anxiety (I'm not a student, tho maybe I should be)

labbadabba

labbadabba

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
2,391
Location
Lawrence, KS
Display Name
Display name:
labbadabba
Okay, confession time. (I fully expect to get flamed)

I am a low-time PPL SEL + Instrument. Total hours are 123.6 and 79 hours PIC. I've spent a lot of time working towards ratings so in terms of flying without a CFI I've only logged 37 hours solo.

I recently knocked out my instrument rating, then I did a CAP form 5, then I got a complex endorsement with my club and did some check-out flight. So I've done a lot of duel lately. Without exception, my CFIs have complemented me on my airmanship and that my ability exceeds the number of hours in my logbook. (aw, shucks, thanks guys) But now, I'm back in time-building mode.

Yesterday was my chance to fly for fun. CAVU with light and variable winds on a warm Sunday afternoon. I was going to go out and do some PPL maneuvers, turns on point, S-turns, slow flight, 45-degree steep turns, etc.

I wanted to start with some landings. Lately my landings have been pretty solid for the most part so I wasn't too worried about my TnGs especially with almost no wind. Just a couple to knock the rust off. First one, meh, it was okay but a bit of a bounce. Okay, I'll just do a better job with managing speed on final. Second one. HOLY CRAP. I came in slower, about 65mph (I can't stand ASI in MPH) and not only did I bounce but I began to PIO. The first time in my life. I could feel the nose wheel getting angry at me as I bounced back in the air, nose-high. Just as it began to drop again I put in full power and went around.

After I cleaned up the airplane I began cursing at myself. What the hell just happened? How close did I come to a prop strike? Are the mains still inflated? Not only did I bounce but I screwed up the recovery so badly that I PIO'd. As I turned crosswind, I started to dread the landing. I really didn't want to land. My next two were okay but something else weird happened. On my ground roll while I was decelerating the plane pulled to the right, had I been in a tailwheel I'm sure it would have resulted in a ground loop.

ARRGHGH!! What is happening?!?! By now my confidence was rattled and a touch of fear/anxiety was creeping in.

Okay, let's do some airwork maybe I just needed get my mind off landings...

Clean take off and a short flight out to the old practice area. I found a good long straight road and initiated some S-turns over a road. Perfect. Another set of clearing turns and now to do some steep turns. But now, solo anxiety started to kick in.

With a CFI, I've done commercial steep turns and even spin training. I KNOW how to do steep turns and can do them to commercial standards. But yesterday, I rolled to 45 degree bank and felt like I was falling, my nose swerved up and down against the horizon and my stall horn briefly quacked at me. I had a vision of winging over and spinning in to my doom even tho I was 2,500 ft AGL. I cut the bank back to 30 degrees and chided myself once again. I couldn't do a "steep" turn beyond 30 degrees. WTF!!!!

I then asked for vectors to RNAV 18 and did an approach which went just fine.

How is it that I can be super-pilot with a CFI in the right seat but turn chicken when solo? I realize the answer is to get more solo time but now I'm a little apprehensive. I kinda want to just call one of my CFI buddies and go do some steep turns and some power-off landings knowing that I'll ace them.

Am I alone in this? Flame away.
 
Last edited:
Ah there is a reason for experience requirements... confidence is one of them. I wouldn't beat yourself up, it's not unusual, just stay well within your limits and keep plugging....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think you just had a bad day and you let a bad landing affect you. I think you did the right thing leaving the pattern and going out to the practice area, even though you experienced problems there too. Just get up and fly more often by yourself. I don't think flying with a CFI will do a lot for your self confidence.

I was a "professional" pilot, and I had a few bad days even at the airline I flew at. It happens to all of us. Even a CFI has bad days. Next time you have similar problems, maybe just land and call it a day. I've done that as a student with my CFI when I was toast, and as a CFI when I noticed a student becoming maxed out. Sometimes just flying to another airport, landing there and going inside and relax awhile helps.
 
labbadabba said:
How is it that I can be super-pilot with a CFI in the right seat but turn chicken when solo?
Click to expand...

I am the exact opposite. I only tolerated the training in order to fly alone. Nothing beats the serenity and self satisfying experience. You seem to prefer the training and not so much the flying.
 
citizen5000 said:
I am the exact opposite. I only tolerated the training in order to fly alone. Nothing beats the serenity and self satisfying experience. You seem to prefer the training and not so much the flying.
Click to expand...

Which is odd, but I think you're right. So far, I've enjoyed becoming a pilot more than being a pilot...
 
Not that my measly amount of flight experience can offer anything, but you need to have the same mentality as an athlete does (applies to a lot in life): don't let a bad performance follow you around. It's easy to let a poor landing/lesson/flight get into your head, so you have to have a "short memory" when it comes to that stuff in regards to letting it create anxiety going forward. You struck out last time? Great, it's in the past, do better next time. Same goes with landings, just get it right on the next go-round. Make small adjustments, not wholesale changes.
 
labbadabba said:
Okay, confession time. (I fully expect to get flamed)

I am a low-time PPL SEL + Instrument. Total hours are 123.6 and 79 hours PIC. I've spent a lot of time working towards ratings so in terms of flying without a CFI I've only logged 37 hours solo.

I recently knocked out my instrument rating, then I did a CAP form 5, then I got a complex endorsement with my club and did some check-out flight. So I've done a lot of duel lately. Without exception, my CFIs have complemented me on my airmanship and that my ability exceeds the number of hours in my logbook. (aw, shucks, thanks guys) But now, I'm back in time-building mode.

Yesterday was my chance to fly for fun. CAVU with light and variable winds on a warm Sunday afternoon. I was going to go out and do some PPL maneuvers, turns on point, S-turns, slow flight, 45-degree steep turns, etc.

I wanted to start with some landings. Lately my landings have been pretty solid for the most part so I wasn't too worried about my TnGs especially with almost no wind. Just a couple to knock the rust off. First one, meh, it was okay but a bit of a bounce. Okay, I'll just do a better job with managing speed on final. Second one. HOLY CRAP. I came in slower, about 65mph (I can't stand ASI in MPH) and not only did I bounce but I began to PIO. The first time in my life. I could feel the nose wheel getting angry at me as I bounced back in the air, nose-high. Just as it began to drop again I put in full power and went around.

After I cleaned up the airplane I began cursing at myself. What the hell just happened? How close did I come to a prop strike? Are the mains still inflated? Not only did I bounce but I screwed up the recovery so badly that I PIO'd. As I turned crosswind, I started to dread the landing. I really didn't want to land. My next two were okay but something else weird happened. On my ground roll while I was decelerating the plane pulled to the right, had I been in a tailwheel I'm sure it would have resulted in a ground loop.

ARRGHGH!! What is happening?!?! By now my confidence was rattled and a touch of fear/anxiety was creeping in.

Okay, let's do some airwork maybe I just needed get my mind off landings...

Clean take off and a short flight out to the old practice area. I found a good long straight road and initiated some S-turns over a road. Perfect. Another set of clearing turns and now to do some steep turns. But now, solo anxiety started to kick in.

With a CFI, I've done commercial steep turns and even spin training. I KNOW how to do steep turns and can do them to commercial standards. But yesterday, I rolled to 45 degree bank and felt like I was falling, my nose swerved up and down against the horizon and my stall horn briefly quacked at me. I had a vision of winging over and spinning in to my doom even tho I was 2,500 ft AGL. I cut the bank back to 30 degrees and chided myself once again. I couldn't do a "steep" turn beyond 30 degrees. WTF!!!!

I then asked for vectors to RNAV 18 and did an approach which went just fine.

How is it that I can be super-pilot with a CFI in the right seat but turn chicken when solo? I realize the answer is to get more solo time but now I'm a little apprehensive. I kinda want to just call one of my CFI buddies and go do some steep turns and some power-off landings knowing that I'll ace them.

Am I alone in this? Flame away.
Click to expand...
Maybe you concentrate better when you have an audience in the right seat.
 
off day, we all have 'em.

I second gsengle's statement of go fly somewhere. take a trip, forget about steep turns for now. S-turns, I mean c'mon, man!
 
Anxiety is almost always about the landing. When I learned to fly in the '60s it was quite common advice to "wiggle your toes" when landing to help reduce anxiety. The argument was that you can't be wiggling your toes and be stressed-out at the same time. I followed that advice and it worked. In fact, I successfully used the "wiggle your toes" technique throughout most of my career prior to engaging in some stressful situation.

I'm now a CFI-G (glider) and find that I'm the only instructor in our club who advises students to "wiggle your toes" when landing to help relax. Which is too bad, because I found it to be good advice.

My advice is to try wiggling your toes when landing. It'll help you relax.

Larry
 
You sound similar me. I'm low-time as well, and I don't get to fly as much as I'd like. Because of the spans of time that pass (usually more than a month or two) in between flights, I almost always grab a CFI to join me on those flights, just for extra safety while any "rust" gets knocked off.

I did my flight review after 8 months of not flying - and the CFI told me that he'd have never guessed I was out of practice or that I had a low amount of hours in my logbook.

All that being said, even when my confidence is high and I know I'm on my game, I've never been a huge fan of flying solo (unlike @citizen5000). There is absolutely some serenity to be enjoyed when flying solo, but 9 times out of 10, I want to share it with someone. For some reason, having almost ANYONE - CFI or not - in the right seat makes me feel better (and fly better, it seems) than flying alone.
 
paflyer said:
Really. Why are you still practicing maneuvers? You got your ticket, go somewhere, build some time away from the nest.
Click to expand...

Yeah stop getting your wing held. Jump out of the nest and go build some time. Fly around the city or plan a nice XC. Also, dont go get into actual IMC if you are this nervous flying VFR.
 
ljsuter said:
Anxiety is almost always about the landing. When I learned to fly in the '60s it was quite common advice to "wiggle your toes" when landing to help reduce anxiety. The argument was that you can't be wiggling your toes and be stressed-out at the same time. I followed that advice and it worked. In fact, I successfully used the "wiggle your toes" technique throughout most of my career prior to engaging in some stressful situation.

I'm now a CFI-G (glider) and find that I'm the only instructor in our club who advises students to "wiggle your toes" when landing to help relax. Which is too bad, because I found it to be good advice.

My advice is to try wiggling your toes when landing. It'll help you relax.

Larry
Click to expand...
Ha! Gotta try the toe wiggle....About middle marker (or distance thereof) I sorta 'reset' my rear end into the seat.
 
I'm always more comfortable when there's someone with me. Doesn't have to be an instructor. In fact it's better when it's not an Instructor.
 
We all have bad days.

A few ideas that might be relevant:

1. Hydration and rest matter. I discovered the hard way to always keep water in the airplane and pay close attention to fatigue. Either one can make landings progressively worse. I didn't bend any metal, but those T&Gs in Tracy in 100 deg in a Warrior were worse than any I did as a student.

2. Many airplanes land differently solo than loaded. Particularly, CAP G1000 182s are usually right at max landing weight when crewed. Approach speed is 5 knots slower solo.

3. How do you bounce when slow? Usually you thump in a landing and it stays there. It's the fast landings (remember, you're light) that bounce.
 
+1 for ditching maneuvers and doing some XC flying. You already demonstrated you can do the maneuvers proficiently. Go fly somewhere fun!
 
if you just want to train forever, give @TRocket a call, u guys would get along great!
 
labbadabba said:
Okay, confession time. (I fully expect to get flamed)

I am a low-time PPL SEL + Instrument. Total hours are 123.6 and 79 hours PIC. I've spent a lot of time working towards ratings so in terms of flying without a CFI I've only logged 37 hours solo.

I recently knocked out my instrument rating, then I did a CAP form 5, then I got a complex endorsement with my club and did some check-out flight. So I've done a lot of duel lately. Without exception, my CFIs have complemented me on my airmanship and that my ability exceeds the number of hours in my logbook. (aw, shucks, thanks guys) But now, I'm back in time-building mode.

Yesterday was my chance to fly for fun. CAVU with light and variable winds on a warm Sunday afternoon. I was going to go out and do some PPL maneuvers, turns on point, S-turns, slow flight, 45-degree steep turns, etc.

I wanted to start with some landings. Lately my landings have been pretty solid for the most part so I wasn't too worried about my TnGs especially with almost no wind. Just a couple to knock the rust off. First one, meh, it was okay but a bit of a bounce. Okay, I'll just do a better job with managing speed on final. Second one. HOLY CRAP. I came in slower, about 65mph (I can't stand ASI in MPH) and not only did I bounce but I began to PIO. The first time in my life. I could feel the nose wheel getting angry at me as I bounced back in the air, nose-high. Just as it began to drop again I put in full power and went around.

After I cleaned up the airplane I began cursing at myself. What the hell just happened? How close did I come to a prop strike? Are the mains still inflated? Not only did I bounce but I screwed up the recovery so badly that I PIO'd. As I turned crosswind, I started to dread the landing. I really didn't want to land. My next two were okay but something else weird happened. On my ground roll while I was decelerating the plane pulled to the right, had I been in a tailwheel I'm sure it would have resulted in a ground loop.

ARRGHGH!! What is happening?!?! By now my confidence was rattled and a touch of fear/anxiety was creeping in.

Okay, let's do some airwork maybe I just needed get my mind off landings...

Clean take off and a short flight out to the old practice area. I found a good long straight road and initiated some S-turns over a road. Perfect. Another set of clearing turns and now to do some steep turns. But now, solo anxiety started to kick in.

With a CFI, I've done commercial steep turns and even spin training. I KNOW how to do steep turns and can do them to commercial standards. But yesterday, I rolled to 45 degree bank and felt like I was falling, my nose swerved up and down against the horizon and my stall horn briefly quacked at me. I had a vision of winging over and spinning in to my doom even tho I was 2,500 ft AGL. I cut the bank back to 30 degrees and chided myself once again. I couldn't do a "steep" turn beyond 30 degrees. WTF!!!!

I then asked for vectors to RNAV 18 and did an approach which went just fine.

How is it that I can be super-pilot with a CFI in the right seat but turn chicken when solo? I realize the answer is to get more solo time but now I'm a little apprehensive. I kinda want to just call one of my CFI buddies and go do some steep turns and some power-off landings knowing that I'll ace them.

Am I alone in this? Flame away.
Click to expand...

Have you trained with a bunch of low hour CFIs?
 
Mostly just to see if I still could
MAKG1 said:
3. How do you bounce when slow? Usually you thump in a landing and it stays there. It's the fast landings (remember, you're light) that bounce.
Click to expand...

That is what I was trying to figure out. How in the world did I bounce much less PIO?

The one thing I could think of was that my sink rate must have been too high. Got into ground-effect and balooned. Normally I just hold off the nose and it settles when returning into ground effect but for some reason (I don't know why) I eased up on the back pressure and the nose gear hit and I popped back up and the nose dropped even more sharply the second time. I could see the scenario about to play out where the PIO get progressively worse so I went around. Be I definitely wasn't too fast. 65 mph was what I remember seeing over the threshold and I typically fly 65 kts and land just fine in a 172. It really caught me by surprise.
 
labbadabba said:
How in the world did I bounce much less PIO?
Click to expand...
Nose wheel hit first. Then bounces onto mains only. Back to nose only...and so on. Too fast and then not pulling back far enough/fast enough to arrest the next cycle (this is hard to do and you'll almost always be off the "beat" and only make matters worse.) Go around immediately is the best option.
 
paflyer said:
Nose wheel hit first. Then bounces onto mains only. Back to nose only...and so on. Too fast and then not pulling back far enough/fast enough to arrest the next cycle (this is hard to do and you'll almost always be off the "beat" and only make matters worse.) Go around immediately is the best option.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what I did once I saw the pattern. I know how they happen but I was shocked because I really didn't feel that I was fast at all. The approach was fine, the flare was normal if maybe a tad bit high.

I wish I would have recorded it, but I think I might have flared high, developed a bit of a sink and I let go of the back pressure causing the nose wheel to hit prematurely. It just caught me by surprise because everything felt and looked fine up to that point.
 
abqtj said:
AH!

Thanks!
Click to expand...
when your inputs are exacerbating the problem vs. resolving it. You're out of sync with what is required and making it usually worse with each oscillation.
 
labbadabba said:
How is it that I can be super-pilot with a CFI in the right seat but turn chicken when solo? I realize the answer is to get more solo time but now I'm a little apprehensive. I kinda want to just call one of my CFI buddies and go do some steep turns and some power-off landings knowing that I'll ace them.
Click to expand...
Definitely anxiety related. With a CFI in the right seat you "know" you'll be "safe" - without that CFI there that safety is missing both consciously, and subconsciously. I've had this happen to me too and what worked for me was to give myself little "mini missions" that got progressively longer - even if it was 30nm away and back without a touch and go. The point was to get comfortable being alone.

gsengle said:
Ah there is a reason for experience requirements... confidence is one of them. I wouldn't beat yourself up, it's not unusual, just stay well within your limits and keep plugging....
Click to expand...
Exactly. When I first got my PPL I planned my routes well within my comfort zone, exactly because I didn't want to get into a situation that would shake my confidence in me by "over doing" it. First few flights alone were just to practice area and back... then 30 nm airports, then 50nm airports, then 100 plus. All the while you are making yourself more confident, building time, and building experience. Even a short mission will have its learning moments, and the experience and confidence builds off each of those moments.

Another thing I would do, on a longer trips, IE, over 100nm each way, is plan the route in short 30nm-50nm segments. This way it doesn't seem as daunting mentally, since you're just flying short sectors and at anytime you can turn back, or pop into an alternate

Salty said:
I'm always more comfortable when there's someone with me.
Click to expand...
This used to be me when I was younger... then something changed when I got back into flying after a few years' hiatus. If I'm alone if I do something stupid at least it is just one person biting the dust. If I am going with other people that is someone else's family I am responsible for, so that puts a big load on my shoulders

P.S. - not for nothing, but our small planes do handle much differently with just one person vs 2 or 3. My landings are almost always better when I have people in the plane, I honestly feel like the extra weight helps stabilize things somewhat. When I'm alone the flare seems to always be not quite textbook
 
labbadabba said:
Which is exactly what I did once I saw the pattern. I know how they happen but I was shocked because I really didn't feel that I was fast at all. The approach was fine, the flare was normal if maybe a tad bit high.

I wish I would have recorded it, but I think I might have flared high, developed a bit of a sink and I let go of the back pressure causing the nose wheel to hit prematurely. It just caught me by surprise because everything felt and looked fine up to that point.
Click to expand...
Good job stopping the cycle and getting it back in the air for the go around. Lots of ntsb reports with 'on the 3rd bounce....crunch'. Thats just one more experience for your bucket. Now you know what that feels like and how to fix it. Don't fixate on it, learn, move on.
 
Been there, done that. Park it for a day and come back tomorrow. We all have bad days now and then.
 
gsengle said:
Go travel with an airplane. That's the point, not steep banked turns...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: Yep, you need to stop practicing and get some travel time in. You've been told you can fly beyond your hours so why are you continually training? Put the skills to work... Go find some $200.00 burgers, visit friend /family or fly to some place on the list... There will be other things that will challenge you that the perfect steep turns won't solve. You have much more to learn and a lot of it can't be done in the practice area. As others have said, start small and continue to expand the ring of achievement with longer trips.

Get out there and fly safe...
 
I'll note that most people who get flamed are posting on things they think they know, not things they realize they screwed up. Not a flame in this thread!

I've had days like that. I'm a low-time pilot transitioning into the dangerous mid-time stretch. I'm at about 430 hours. I have to constantly remind myself that I probably flew better when I was training than I do now. Two skills that are better now: cruise and normal landing. Everything else? Probably flew it better when I was training. I'll get out with an instructor a couple times a year to check out in a new type or something. Something that will force honing my airmanship again. As long as you know your judgement is sound, don't let it get to you and keep flying.

I'm in the doesn't-fly-alone camp. It's usually non-pilot passengers, not CFIs and pilots. I love sharing the ride. I have a channel open here at work that I post in when I have spare seats that folks can grab. In those 400+ hours I've had 100+ unique passengers. I definitely notice those few times I'm actually solo in the plane. My landings are particularly out-of-sync since I have so little experience at those low weights. It's funny...the club I have my plane with requires full-gross flights for some checkouts (though not my 172). But that's how I usually fly in most aircraft! (When I rented, I always picked the smallest plane that would do the job. Now that I have the 172, I'm usually struggling to fit everything and everybody in.) Maybe the rule should have been to have a lightweight flight instead! Go up with only an hour of fuel with a CFI, do 30 minutes of TnG without leaving the pattern.

That said..somewhere in the 200 hour range, I developed a confidence that I could handle the aircraft. I mean, I always knew I could, but the subconscious confidence was something different. That confidence kept me further ahead of the plane, as I wasn't wasting mental energy on worrying about my performance. Not sure what caused that switch to flip, but I've seen more than myself witness the phenomenon. You'll get it, too.
 
One bad day does not make you a bad pilot. The humility and self awareness that you exhibit by reflecting on this and then seeking input from others, on the other hand, shows a great attitude. Which, IMO, is more important than nailing every landing and maneuver. Just get back on the horse and look ahead.
 
I'm going to sound like a broken record but yeah go fly somewhere. I haven't even finished my IFR rating yet but I'm over 200 hours. Love taking the wife a few hundred miles for a concert or to the beach. You need to do the same. No steep turns. Just enjoy it. That will build confidence more than anything.
 
Maybe flying just isn't for you.
Maybe you just need to give it some time.
Only you can make that call.

I flew with a guy for years. Excellent stick and rudder guy.
Then one day we were walking out to the plane we were supposed to deliver back to the East coast and he started shaking like he was having a seizure.
He was done flying. He could not bring himself to climb in the plane. He ended up taking a train home. Never flew again.

My GIB in Vietnam was the squadron commander. An outstanding fighter pilot, Multiple Air Medals, multiple DFCs, Bronze Star, Silver Star.
One day he woke up convinced he was going to die if he kept flying the Double Ugly.
He had no problem as a GIB. He was stellar. But he would NOT fly that airplane.

It happens.
 
its takes a 1000 hours to develop the calmness under pressure so that if you do mistakenly slam an airplane down and feel the PIO to take the deep breath and hold the airplane off and exactly how much throttle to goose it to stop it. Its not a skill a guy with 125 hours has. It's gonna scare you. You learn from getting scared - pay attention. No reason to freak out.

Go take the airplane on a decent length cross country. Gives you time to make friends again. Can't spend your life in the pattern and doing pic manuevers -
 
Shepherd said:
Maybe flying just isn't for you.
Maybe you just need to give it some time.
Only you can make that call.

I flew with a guy for years. Excellent stick and rudder guy.
Then one day we were walking out to the plane we were supposed to deliver back to the East coast and he started shaking like he was having a seizure.
He was done flying. He could not bring himself to climb in the plane. He ended up taking a train home. Never flew again.

My GIB in Vietnam was the squadron commander. An outstanding fighter pilot, Multiple Air Medals, multiple DFCs, Bronze Star, Silver Star.
One day he woke up convinced he was going to die if he kept flying the Double Ugly.
He had no problem as a GIB. He was stellar. But he would NOT fly that airplane.

It happens.
Click to expand...

*facepalm*

That seems a little extreme. Sounds like a normal low time pilot feeling to me. People said the EXACT same thing when I posted on here a while back when I was talking about maybe doing some aerobatic training to help with some of my nervousness..."that won't do anything for you", "you should just fly your airplane", blah blah blah. Every time I fly I gain more confidence and experience. The only way to cure the feeling is to fly, fly, fly...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top