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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by motoadve, Dec 3, 2019.
Love it, as always. Great vid.
Anyone doing soft fields with those wheel/tire size isn’t wrapped to tight.
Another great video. Thanks!
Unfortunately I seem to get into similar situations every spring.
I have been consider larger tires on my 182Q. What size tires are you currently running? Are you using an Airglas or Cessna HD fork? What speed penalty did you see with the change?
Cessna HD fork 8.50s mains, and a 7.00 on the nose which is a tight fit.
The stance however is like with standard tires.
Lost about 5 to 6 kts.
I really looking forward to the prop strike video.
In third world countries , we learn to adapt with what we have, we try our best, this strips are open all year round , need supplies , or are there for emergencies, missionary work (which I did).
Cannot understand how another pilot wishes to a fellow pilot to have a prop strike!
Incredible the kind of people we have in this world.
I had to plow through deep mud to get from my parking spot to the gras strip at 6:00am the morning of my PP checkride. Showed up with the tailfeathers, struts, and wings covered in grass and mud. Even now, my little 150 gets mud under its wings a few times a year at least. Doesn't stop me from flying and the light weight of the 150 works well on soft grass. I wish I had the larger front fork and larger tires, but so far all is well for grass stuff not quite as bad as shown in this video.
I think 99% of us like and appreciate your videos and certainly don't wish to see you have a prop strike, or anything other than a great time flying.
I have a question @motoadve...
My CFI busted me during PPL training in the 182. We were practicing for soft field landings. Right as I touched down (on a paved runway) he said "Its too muddy abort and go around". So I pushed the throttle in. I push the carb heat off. But I had been so focused on the landing that I was still flaps 40. So he had me transition back to flaps 20 while still touched down and building up power to get off again. It was easy to forget that the flaps need to get back to the soft field takeoff configuration so the 182 and get rid of the flaps 40 drag.
So when you abort a muddy soft field do you actually leave in all 40deg flaps or do you quickly bring them back to flaps 20 while the gear are still on the ground?
I'm not sure if a 182 at full power and wheels in thick grass or mud would have enough power to get the wheels off. I know it has enough power on short final to slowly climb with flaps 40 as thats a standard go around. But not sure about actually taking off.
Who wishes that on another pilot? That's just sad...
Other instructors might bust you for trying to take back off in that instance. Once your wheels are in the mud, your plane may not have enough energy to get back up to flying speed and take off again. You are definitely safe down on the runway stuck in the mud (unless you are at a drug lords runway in Columbia). Going around may be more risk than stopping and figuring out how to get the plane unstuck and light enough to fly again.
Aside from the lack of class in that response, I didn’t see much that looked like the OP was asking for a prop strike, perhaps if backcountry flying is scary for you, maybe you should get together with a experienced CFI and do some real soft field work, it crazy how one can get their PPL without doing a landing on a real soft field. Don’t let your lack of experience scare you, try to get outside of your airport to airport comfort zone (with proper instruction of course).
I hate to admit it, because I really enjoy the OP's videos as well. That said, the attitude toward acceptable landing surface does seem to be moving towards he cavalier side. I would not have been surprised to see a prop strike or tip over on one of those surfaces. I guess my thinking is we all push our envelopes, its part of being human. I suspect the OP is pushing his envelope in a direction that could result in some damage. That said, he's a way better stick than me.
If the nose gear touched the mud, I am not going around, too dangerous, safer to try to brake and hit whatever at a very slow speed.
If the nose wheel still up, then yes full power and as soon as you get some speed reduce the flaps to 20 degrees.
In my plane that is easier because I fly using the angle of attack indicator.
I have also practiced aborting landings with 40 degrees of flaps , full aft trim and 3 people on board and it worked, but I think only because the STOL kit . VGs and how slow that airplane can fly.
On a 182 without mods would be more difficult.
Minus that one gopher hole he hit in the first one, it seemed pretty tame compared to lots of backcountry flying. Comparing it to your local class D,C,B airport I guess it might seem scary?
I have done real soft field work, but at some point physics overrules skil.
And you think he was pushing it in that video???
At least in the segment where a 182 is being pulled out of the mud. Under SRM the 5P model (plan plane pilot), when you are stuck in the mud all 3 failed. The larger tires and wheels help with the plane, but the plan can still not go as expected as he pushes the plane and the pilot.
The risk management model includes purpose. Videos are not a good purpose to accept higher risk IMO.
My most embarrassing soft field landing happened about 30 years ago. Flying with the family in the C206 over Pennsylvania we ran into violent turbulence due to unforecast winds and a Sigmet issued en route. I decided to land at Gettysburg and get a hotel. Winds were 90 degrees to the paved runway but as I entered the pattern I saw that there was a grass runway perpendicular to it, so I chose that one. As soon as I touched down I felt the drag and I quickly added lots of power and flaps and was able to plow my way to the asphalt. It turns out the runway was NOTAM'd closed due to the mud, but I didn't think to check that when I decided to land there. My bad, but fortunately the owner was sympathetic.
Skylines haven't that much more clearance than my Mooney, it's only an inch or two. They aren't indestructible. Hit enough mud and you're in for a bad day. Hit enough mud deep in the backcountry and you're in for a spectacularly bad day.
Taildraggers are considerably more permissive in this regard, though they have their limitations as well.
I think that flip is due to braking, not mud. It looks to me that he's demonstrating how little distance he needs to land. Notice all the dust from the mains just before he flips.
Part of me says that if he's willing to take the risk of bending something doing these types of landings, it's more of a financial risk than physical one. I'd say he's probably got a better shot of not hurting himself than a lot of pilots doing other things we think of as more "normal."
My only concern would be him getting trapped in a remote field. These videos have cameraman, meaning he isn't going in alone. If that's always the case then I've no worries. But if he went into a remote too-soft field and damaged the aircraft, he could be stuck for a long time indeed.
That said, it is his airplane and his deal. The videos are spectacular, I just don't want anything bad to happen to him for my enjoyment.