Soaring

Seanaldinho

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Any other glider pilots in here?

I got my certificate back in May a month after my birthday (I would have gotten it on my birthday but the DPE was unavailable :sad:). Since then Ive been flying every weekend or two with friends of mine and solo a few times.

I fly with Coastal Soaring Association, we have a Grob 103, a Grob 102, a Schweizer 2-33, and a Pawnee towplane. I did all my training in the 103 and have only flown the 2-33 once and let me say what a dog compared to the slick Grob haha.

coastalsoaring.org <-- check it out :)
 
Too bad you're so far away. I've never been soaring - I would let you take me up. :wink2:
 
Yup. There are a few of us. I recently switched to paragliders, sailplanes are too boring:yawn:
 
There are few glider pilots here.

I am a CFIG and own an HP16T that I fly about 75 hours per year.
In Pacific Northwest.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I'm a CFI-G and am current but not as active as I'd like to be.
 
approximately what is the cost of obtaining the soaring rating and then renting a glider?

It varies quite a bit. A commercial operation will cost a lot more than a club operation. But the Club will probably want you to volunteer your time to help reduce costs.

I have had people do add on ratings for under $800. I am sure at a commercial operation it could be about $3000. (just guessing) www.azsoaring.com/ is one of the more popular commercial operations checking with them would probably give you a better estimate for cost.

Where you are located and how far you want to travel will affect it as well.
If you are reasonably current it is quite possible to do a add on rating in about 3 days at a commercial operation, probably longer at a club operation.

A glider rating more than any other rating is a license to learn. They will teach you how to launch and land and maybe a little bit of soaring, But after you can fly the glider, then learning how to soar is something most people do on there own after they get the glider rating. How to do 4 hour 180 mile cross country flights like I did last week is not something most places teach, but is usually taught by flying with other glider pilot mentors.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I'm a CFI-G, tow pilot and Club President. www.lvvsa.org just south of Las Vegas NV.

In our club, we fly weekends only, I tell new never flown before students to expect about a year and appx $3500, which includes club and SSA dues, books, written test etc.. What it actually cost them depends on how often they fly and learn the material.

Add-on pilots can expect to spend about 1/2 that or less, includes dues. Surprisingly, well not really a surprise, add-on pilots think they have more talent than they exhibit once we start flying. Especially those that have not flown for a few years.

We have an SGS 2-33A, Grob 103 Twin II, SGS 1-26D and an LS-4 for club aircraft, all towed by a 250HP Pawnee. Plus a lot of club members have their personal gliders.
 
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Yup. There are a few of us. I recently switched to paragliders, sailplanes are too boring:yawn:

Be careful. I don't know a single paraglider personally who hasn't experienced a major injury of one type or another.
 
Surprisingly, well not really a surprise, add-on pilots think they have more talent than they exhibit once we start flying.

heh - I felt like a first timer when I got into a glider. It took me a long time to finally feel comfortable. Probably due to all those engine-out 'emergencies' my PP CFI kept putting me through. There's a big difference in the amount of time you have in a plane that glides at about 8:1 than a training glider at about 20:1. I had to learn that I didn't always have to be in hurry. Probably someone who's never flown before wouldn't have that kind of reaction.
 
Be careful. I don't know a single paraglider personally who hasn't experienced a major injury of one type or another.

I know a few hang glider, para glider types that came to gliders. They decided they'd like to have a cage around them and a wing that didn't collapse in gusty thermals.
 
heh - I felt like a first timer when I got into a glider. It took me a long time to finally feel comfortable. Probably due to all those engine-out 'emergencies' my PP CFI kept putting me through. There's a big difference in the amount of time you have in a plane that glides at about 8:1 than a training glider at about 20:1. I had to learn that I didn't always have to be in hurry. Probably someone who's never flown before wouldn't have that kind of reaction.

We had a father/son team that decided they'd like to learn about gliders and soaring. The son was in his 40s, dad in his 60s, both had been flying power for years.

They both took an orientation flight, the son did fairly well, but dad had problems as soon as the tow line released. That visible means of support, that tow plane went away, and dad needed to be on the ground NOW!

They are not kidding when they say that fan up front keeps the pilot cool. You don't believe it? Watch them sweat when the fan quits. Or in dad's case, when the tow plane with the rope left the formation.
 
They both took an orientation flight, the son did fairly well, but dad had problems as soon as the tow line released. That visible means of support, that tow plane went away, and dad needed to be on the ground NOW!

They are not kidding when they say that fan up front keeps the pilot cool. You don't believe it? Watch them sweat when the fan quits. Or in dad's case, when the tow plane with the rope left the formation.

Interesting. The time on tow is the time I like least - I feel much better when I pull the release and don't have to worry about that pesky tow plane. I think being on tow has it's own challenges and is quite good for flying skills, but I can't say it's my favorite time. Maybe I'd better go out and box the wake today to get my priorities back in order. :)
 
We had a father/son team that decided they'd like to learn about gliders and soaring. The son was in his 40s, dad in his 60s, both had been flying power for years.

They both took an orientation flight, the son did fairly well, but dad had problems as soon as the tow line released. That visible means of support, that tow plane went away, and dad needed to be on the ground NOW!

They are not kidding when they say that fan up front keeps the pilot cool. You don't believe it? Watch them sweat when the fan quits. Or in dad's case, when the tow plane with the rope left the formation.

We had an F-16 pilot do that to us!
 
POA is well represented with glider pilots, both occasional and SERIOUS. Personally im kind ofva retired serious one with Comm glider and inactive CFIG You can gain some good stick and rudder skills with long wing adverse yaw prone gliders. However the very non-boring aspect is when it becomes a sport. In that environment the flying is secondary to the challenge of finding and optimizing lift.

The current generation of top level competition gliders, although breath takingly expensive, are unbelievable sophisticated aircraft.

It's a good group of people. It's fun. It's challenging.

Welcome to the OP and congrats on your glider private certificate.
 
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Any other glider pilots in here?

I'm working on it! I have a grand total of 6 flights under my belt in a 2-33. Tomorrow I'll go out again with the CFI and work on simulated rope breaks and more boxing the wake. I should be able to solo after tomorrow.
 
There are few glider pilots here.

I am a CFIG and own an HP16T that I fly about 75 hours per year.
In Pacific Northwest.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
I have "private privileges" in gliders but only participate occasionally these days. With the club I used to belong to the activity tended to consume too much time on summer weekends when I have little time to spare. It is a lot of fun though and an easy add-on for any airplane pilot.
 
I know a few hang glider, para glider types that came to gliders. They decided they'd like to have a cage around them and a wing that didn't collapse in gusty thermals.

Which is perception failure. Injury rate maybe higher in hang/paragliders fatality rate is lower then sailplanes.
 
A couple of the guys in our club came over from the hang-glider ranks. One guy is out of town this weekend, flying his hang-glider down in OK somewhere.
 
POA is well represented with glider pilots, both occasional and SERIOUS. Personally im kind ofva retired serious one with Comm glider and inactive CFIG You can gain some good stick and rudder skills with long wing adverse yaw prone gliders. However the very non-boring aspect is when it becomes a sport. In that environment the flying is secondary to the challenge of finding and optimizing lift.

The current generation of top level competition gliders, although breath takingly expensive, are unbelievable sophisticated aircraft.

It's a good group of people. It's fun. It's challenging.

Welcome to the OP and congrats on your glider private certificate.

Im not much of a thermaller :dunno:. Down here around 11-1 o'clock is the best but after that the seabreeze kicks in and tears the now overdeveloped clouds apart and creates afternoon showers.
Thus I mainly stick to things they dont show the new guys ;)

I hope to make it out to Minden with some guys from the club one of these days.
 
Went up to 3,000 AGL twice today at MUT in a 1-34, first time ever in that model. Seemed like a nice glider. No lift at all, so it was just a sled ride, but got to check out stall characteristics, turns, etc. It was over 100F, so it wasn't very nice on the ground but was OK in the air.
 
I'm thinking of doing the glider add-on and then a CFIG. Anyone know how much additional work would be required add a CFI SEL (I already have an SEL with instrument rating). I'm likely to be training in a Dimona Extreme.
 
I'm thinking of doing the glider add-on and then a CFIG. Anyone know how much additional work would be required add a CFI SEL (I already have an SEL with instrument rating). I'm likely to be training in a Dimona Extreme.
Easy. You could probably add Commercial and CFI-G in a week using a motorglider, assuming you have the book stuff done and feet that work.
 
Easy. You could probably add Commercial and CFI-G in a week using a motorglider, assuming you have the book stuff done and feet that work.
This is true. However, think about this. Would such an instructor be doing a disservice to his/her students? In my opinion, yes.
The beauty of soaring, the fun of soaring and the challenge of soaring are being able to, well, soar. That means finding and working thermals. That means safely flying ridge lift. That means really understanding the aeromedical and metorological implications of high altitude wave soaring. That means flying cross country, landing out, etc.
You going to get that in a week? Yeah, right. Are you going to be able to teach a student to find a thermal, much less how to center it and when to leave it to find the next one? NO, you are not.
You'll be able to get the student to pass a check ride and float around the airport always within gliding distance of the runway. The student will be bored of the whole thing very quickly and leave the sport.
You want to be a CFIG? Do your students and the sport a favor. Become a good soaring pilot first.
Rant off. Thanks for listening.
 
All true. But it is a gliding license not a soaring license. It would be better if US soaring had a culture of xc but we dont. Here you have decide to be a xc and pursue it on your own. One more local only soaring instructor wont hurt.
 
The club president is trying to push me into doing xc's right now but to be honest Im not comfortable doing it because of the expense if I land out. Its very expensive to get the glider back if i dont get back to the home airport.
 
To Greg: sure a local only instructor is ok. The problem is that the student does not know it or doesn't know the implications of it. To me it's analogous to the instrument instructor without real IMC experience.

To Sean: why is it so expensive to land out? Have somebody lined up who can come get you with the trailer. Clubs and soaring friends have been doing this for decades. Aero tow retrieves are a fairly recent thing.
 
The club president is trying to push me into doing xc's right now but to be honest Im not comfortable doing it because of the expense if I land out. Its very expensive to get the glider back if i dont get back to the home airport.

In my club, the tradition is to buy dinner for those that retrieved you. In AMU, that's pretty cheap...
 
No engine? Sounds dangerous.
Most glider accidents have nothing to do with the lack of thrust, just as powered aircraft often crash despite having a working engine (and often crash because of some problem with the engine at an unlucky moment). Gliders fly quite well without thrust- even your typical old-school trainer boasts a glide ratio of better than 20: 1. Even the faster ones can be flown pretty slowly (the fastest ones use water ballast to glide faster, and can dump it all before landing), which accounts for the much better stats for survivable off-airport landing accidents compared to powered aircraft.
Other than slightly higher frequency of midairs between gliders (thermals can get crowded sometimes), glider accident causes match up pretty evenly with powered aircraft, percentage-wise. Glider pilots fall victim to the same preventable stuff: bad weather, takeoff and landing,etc. But glider pilots don't worry too much about exhaust leaks, runway props or unbalanced camshafts, CO poisoning,or post-crash fire. :wink2:
Technically, if there's electrics on board, a glider could have smoke or fire in flight or after a crash, but I've never heard of such a thing.
Any launching method that relies on a powerplant of some kind adds a little more risk to soaring, but it's because of the engine involved, not the fact that gliders don't have engines.
If I'm not mistaken, aerotow, despite the obvious potential hazard of the tow plane losing power, is the safest method of launching a glider (statistically). If our club's towplane's fan did stop turning right after takeoff, with a glider in tow, I'd much rather be sitting in the glider than the towplane, even if release occurred immediately and the towplane had a good chance of making it into the few open areas that surround the airport. Our gliders can make a buttonhook turn at 200 AGL and safely return to the runway. Since they fly slowly, landing downwind is not a big deal (we don't fly if it's very windy anyway). If the abort occurred with some runway remaining but not quite enough to stop normally, the tow pilot would possibly have to ground-loop the tow plane, put it on its nose, or roll into the trees... the glider pilot could just pitch up to slow down, gaining some altitude easily in the process, sidestep to the grass, use spoilers and a slip to plunk it onto the turf, then use forward stick to put the weight on the nose skid if necessary. A normal landing roll is well under 200 feet; in an emergency it could be much, much shorter.
Gliders do crash, though, but I think if I had to crash in any aircraft, I'd prefer it to be a 2-33. The cockpit section is very strong, and the big wings can absorb a lot of collision energy. But in such a glider, the collision energy could potentially be very low... at minimum-sink speed (42 mph), it descends at less than 150 fpm. It also stalls at 34 mph at max gross.
 
you have to have 15 hrs PIC to do the instructor checkride anyway so it'll take a little more than a weekend to do both
 
All true. But it is a gliding license not a soaring license. It would be better if US soaring had a culture of xc but we dont. Here you have decide to be a xc and pursue it on your own. One more local only soaring instructor wont hurt.

You obviously don't live in the west. We go XC.
We just got a new club member that learned in the Midwest. He said his club members will fly for hours but never more than one thermal away from the airport. He's starting to learn and cut the apron strings to the home airport.
 
You obviously don't live in the west. We go XC.
We just got a new club member that learned in the Midwest. He said his club members will fly for hours but never more than one thermal away from the airport. He's starting to learn and cut the apron strings to the home airport.


Our club is starting to branch out. We had been for years the way you described - one thermal away from the field. But in the last year or two we've had some new members come in and bring some new perspective. No one has landed out yet, or landed at an airport other than the home field, but we routinely get multi-hundred mile flights now.
 
To Sean: why is it so expensive to land out? Have somebody lined up who can come get you with the trailer. Clubs and soaring friends have been doing this for decades. Aero tow retrieves are a fairly recent thing.

I am trying to find my clubs prices for trailer and aerotow retrieval.
I saw them just the other day... :confused:
 
ive never heard of a club charging members for trailer use. what kind of gliders do you have for XC flying?
 
We have no dedicated XC birds. We have a 2-33 a Grob 103 and a Grob 102. Thats it.

The 102 should be a more than adequate Cross country airplane. The 103 isn't bad but a bit of a pain to disassemble if you should land out. It might take some practice with the 102 to easily assemble or dissassemble it. Once you start flying cross country you will probably be surprised how little you actually land out. The thermals don't just occur around the airport

If possible try airport hopping, We have one pilot here that flys thousands of miles a year but hasn't landed away from an airport in over 12 years. I flew 70 hours this year and landed away at other airports twice and once in a feild.


Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
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