So you got busted by the five-oh.... how do you tell the FAA?

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
The recent discussions on marijuana, substance abuse, arrests, and FAA medicals created this question....

Say I did something really stupid that gave me a chance to wear some shiny wrist accoutrements, ride in the back of a Crown Victoria, to have an short or extended stay at the grey bar motel, and to spend some time in front of a guy or gal in a black robe and possessing a gavel.

(and no, I haven't done this... the question is for discussion and review for me and others to add to knowledge base)

I recall there is a requirement to report to the FAA. Kindly share the
  • When to report
  • What to report
  • Who to report to (what department)
  • How to report (what means of communication, CMRRR* a good idea?)
If this is codified anywhere (FARs?), what is the reference?

*CMRRR = Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested
 
Depends what it was for on whether you need to report or not.
 
AggieMike88 said:
How to report (what means of communication, CMRRR* a good idea?)

*CMRRR = Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested
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Seems to me that if there is some obligation to report anything, you'd want to be sure you had evidence that you reported it. That may be different than ensuring or having evidence that the report was received... ;)
 
I think the first place I would look is the application for a medical certificate. I think there is also a regulation to report some type of alcohol-related offenses.
 
I believe you have to report any "arrests" which I think technically means anything that results in a traffic ticket.
 
paflyer said:
I believe you have to report any "arrests" which I think technically means anything that results in a traffic ticket.
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That is not correct - unless your traffic ticket somehow results in a criminal charge. Here they are civil infractions.
 
The mere fact that a cop has his lights on and pulls you over can be argued as an 'arrest'. You are not free to go...you are arrested, stopped, not free to go.

You can try to use the word 'detained' but may find the difference in definition small. 'Taken into custody' may happen and many would call that 'arested', however I do believe there have been cases where where the simple act of pulling over a motorist has been deemed arrested.
 
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I thought it was just for drug offenses and DUI?

Does the FAA care if you say... get a public intoxication charge while nowhere near a vehicle of any kind?
 
DUI and Traffic offenses are all that they seem to care about. Murder, Kidnap, embezzlement - not so much......

So, when murdering your ex-spouse always drive carefully and within posted limits to and from the scene of the crime. And PLEASE do not drink until you are safely home. ;-)
 
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cowman said:
I thought it was just for drug offenses and DUI?

Does the FAA care if you say... get a public intoxication charge while nowhere near a vehicle of any kind?
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How about a lawn mower DUI?

 
Captain said:
The mere fact that a cop has his lights on and pulls you over can be argued as an 'arrest'. You are not free to go...you are arrested, stopped, not free to go.
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Argued incorrectly and void of fact.
 
You are not arrested in a mere traffic stop, you are stopped (or seized as the term is really). All that takes is an articulable suspicion that a crime has been committed. Being placed in handcuffs int he back of the cruiser is an arrest however.

Arrests are not necessarily reportable on the medical. Convictions must be reported on your medical in 18w. Convictions related to drug or alcohol impairment get reported in 18v. Any convictions or administrative actions including those that require suspension of your license or enrollment in a program, even if you aren't eventually convicted, must be reported in 18v as well.

You might also want to check 61.15 for what convictions and administrative actions require an immediate (60 day) report to the FAA security office.
 
Question applies to more than traffic stops, DUI's, controlled substances, alcohol related...

So broaden this to all sorts of LEO encounters, arrests, charged, time in criminal court, time in hoosgow, etc. What if the airman was involved in fraud? Burglary? Assault? or worse?

When, what, where, how does the airman advice the FAA?
 
I've wondered what happens when you report the infractions. A DUI for example, what does it usually do to your flying status?
 
AggieMike88 said:
When, what, where, how does the airman advice the FAA?
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Advise? There's no need to advise them on arrests. For convictions it goes in 18w. They only want to hear about administrative actions when it involves alcohol or drugs (or a drivers license suspension that would imply that).

A DUI is certainly going to merit a review. You might survive it if you show them that this is a one time event and not a high BAC or something that shows alcohol tolerance. Two such actions or any other signs of pervasive substance abuse will get your medical yanked.
 
EdFred said:
That is not correct - unless your traffic ticket somehow results in a criminal charge. Here they are civil infractions.
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It is correct even if you are never convicted if the arrest involves driving while under the influence, or if the arrest results in either loss of driving privileges or attending an educational or rehab program. See question 18v on FAA Form 8500-8 (Airman Medical Application). In addition, you must also report on that form any "history of nontraffic conviction(s) (misdemeanors or felonies) in block 18w. Neither of those, however, must be reported until your next medical application.

OTOH, you must within 60 days of any "motor vehicle action" (see below) report that action to the FAA Civil Aviation Security Division (AMC-700). A "motor vehicle action" means:
(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.
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Note that this report must be made if you hold an FAA pilot certificate, Student through ATP, even if you are not required to hold, or do not currently hold, a medical certificate or even if you do not plan to ever fly again. See 14 CFR 61.15 for details on reporting motor vehicle actions.
 
Ron Levy said:
It is correct even if you are never convicted if the arrest involves driving while under the influence, or if the arrest results in either loss of driving privileges or attending an educational or rehab program. See question 18v on FAA Form 8500-8 (Airman Medical Application).
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The statement I was replying to said ANYTHING resulting in a traffic ticket, not merely DUI/suspension. Rolling through a stop sign, or going 10 over need not be reported.
 
Captain said:
The mere fact that a cop has his lights on and pulls you over can be argued as an 'arrest'. You are not free to go...you are arrested, stopped, not free to go.
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Not exactly. If a cop pulls you over, writes a ticket, and then lets you go on your way, you were not "arrested" in this context. OTOH, if you have the cuffs applied and leave the locus in quo in the back of the officer's cruiser, you were arrested, and if it involves/leads to what I said above, you will have to report that arrest on your next medical even if you are never convicted.
 
Ron Levy said:
Not exactly. If a cop pulls you over, writes a ticket, and then lets you go on your way, you were not "arrested" in this context. OTOH, if you have the cuffs applied and leave the locus in quo in the back of the officer's cruiser, you were arrested, and if it involves/leads to what I said above, you will have to report that arrest on your next medical even if you are never convicted.
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What if they let you back out of the car?
 
cowman said:
I thought it was just for drug offenses and DUI?
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No.
Does the FAA care if you say... get a public intoxication charge while nowhere near a vehicle of any kind?
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Read 18v and 18w carefully. If that public intoxication charge leads to attendance at an educational or rehab program, or costs you driving privileges, you must report it as a "yes" in 18v. If it results in any sort of conviction (misdemeanor or felony), you must report it in 18w. Either way, the FAA will be concerned that you have a drinking problem that must be addressed in the interest of aviation safety. Note that they have substantial research to show a correlation between alcohol problems on the ground and involvement in aircraft accidents, and they take any sort of alcohol-related problems very seriously (even more so if they catch you trying to hide them).
 
Art VanDelay said:
DUI and Traffic offenses are all that they seem to care about. Murder, Kidnap, embezzlement - not so much......
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Not true. They've stripped ATP's of their tickets on the "good moral character" clause over offenses having nothing to do with alcohol/substance abuse or driving quite a few times, but not so much for CP and below.
 
Ron Levy said:
OTOH, if you have the cuffs applied and leave the locus in quo in the back of the officer's cruiser, you were arrested, and if it involves/leads to what I said above, you will have to report that arrest on your next medical even if you are never convicted.
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So the time to report is next medical application, not before?
 
AggieMike88 said:
So broaden this to all sorts of LEO encounters, arrests, charged, time in criminal court, time in hoosgow, etc. What if the airman was involved in fraud? Burglary? Assault? or worse?

When, what, where, how does the airman advice the FAA?
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Depends on the charge, but any conviction of any kind must be reported in block 18W on the next application. In addition, any motor vehicle action must be reported within 60 days directly to FAA Civil Aviation Security IAW 14 FR 61.15. Finally, if you work for an air carrier and have SIDA access, you will have to make reports to your employer and TSA (since there are about 15 felonies which are automatic disqualification from such access for 10 years), but if this affects you, you should already know this.

BTW, offenses for which convictions which have cost ATP's their pilot certificate on the "good moral character" clause include forgery, fraud, sex crimes, and lying to the Feds. Again, this is strictly an ATP issue, since no other class of certificate has that clause.
 
rbridges said:
I've wondered what happens when you report the infractions. A DUI for example, what does it usually do to your flying status?
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Bruce Chien is the expert on this, but IIRC...

  • First offense usually results in some sort of mandatory evaluation and rehab (costing you thousands of dollars), along with a permanent sobriety requirement.
  • Second offense is usually loss of medical and no reapplication for at least one year (think tens of thousands of dollars), including longer term psych eval and rehab.
  • Third offense pretty much ends your flying.
BTW, the US Marshals were on the way to physically take John Denver's medical certificate from him over a third alcohol offense when he crashed and died.
 
flyingron said:
Advise? There's no need to advise them on arrests.
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One more time -- some arrests must be reported in block 18w even if no conviction or other action results. That is a change made in 2009, so some of you may not have grown up on the old system as I did and didn't notice the new words, but it is now the rule. Read that question carefully and don't screw it up.
 
EdFred said:
The statement I was replying to said ANYTHING resulting in a traffic ticket, not merely DUI/suspension. Rolling through a stop sign, or going 10 over need not be reported.
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Agreed, as long as it does not result in attendance at an educational program or loss of driving privileges. Get nailed often enough for rolling through stop signs, and you will get suspended (or sent to driving school), and that suspension (or driving school attendance) will have to be reported on your next medical even though no drugs or alcohol were involved.
 
paflyer said:
What if they let you back out of the car?
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If you've been cuffed, it's close enough you should call a good aviation attorney who knows your state's laws, tell him/her the full story within nothing left out (playing "I've got a secret" with your attorney is about as bad an idea as you can have), provide him/her with all the paperwork, and then get (and follow) his/her advice.
 
AggieMike88 said:
So the time to report is next medical application, not before?
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If it doesn't turn into a "motor vehicle action", then yes, the arrest is only reportable at the next medical application, and not before. OTOH, if it turns into a motor vehicle action as defined in 61.16(c) (even if there's no conviction), it must be reported to Civil Aviation Security within 60 days of that action (not necessarily the date of arrest, although in Maryland you can hand over your DL to the arresting officer on the spot in order to start the suspension clock running, in which case the FAA 61.15 60-day clock also starts immediately) and then again on the next medical.
 
Ron Levy said:
BTW, the US Marshals were on the way to physically take John Denver's medical certificate from him over a third alcohol offense when he crashed and died.
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Not picking on you Ron. Just saying sending the Marshalls to take someone's certificate is gay. Somehow I think anyone with John Denver money could still access an airplane. Anyone except a broke azz renter as well.:rolleyes2:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Not picking on you Ron. Just saying sending the Marshalls to take someone's certificate is gay.
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Thank you for the homophobic remark. Perhaps the MC will see it and let you know how such remarks are unacceptable here.
Somehow I think anyone with John Denver money could still access an airplane.
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Sure, but then those US Marshals would be coming for him, not just his paper. And yes, people have gone to jail for continuing to fly after their pilot certificate has been suspended/revoked -- at least two made national press last year.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Not picking on you Ron. Just saying sending the Marshalls to take someone's certificate is gay. Somehow I think anyone with John Denver money could still access an airplane. Anyone except a broke azz renter as well.:rolleyes2:
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Skydiving is way more fun than flying. It is flight in its purest and most primal form.
 
I've always read it this way: Alcohol/drug/DUI offenses, tell the FAA now. Jaywalking/theft/murder: Deal with it at your next medical.
 
Ron Levy said:
Thank you for the homophobic remark. Perhaps the MC will see it and let you know how such remarks are unacceptable here.
Sure, but then those US Marshals would be coming for him, not just his paper. And yes, people have gone to jail for continuing to fly after their pilot certificate has been suspended/revoked -- at least two made national press last year.
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So how is the word 'gay' is homophobic? Besides if you checked your copy of the Urban Dictionary, you would have noticed that used in this context the term gay suggests that the situation is messed up. Nothing to do with sexual orientation. Smart not so think as you are.

And He said, "blessed are the rule keepers, for they will inherent the kingdom of Boring".
 
Morgan3820 said:
So how is the word 'gay' is homophobic? Besides if you checked your copy of the Urban Dictionary, you would have noticed that used in this context the term gay suggests that the situation is messed up. Nothing to do with sexual orientation. Smart not so think as you are.

And He said, "blessed are the rule keepers, for they will inherent the kingdom of Boring".
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There was a whole South Park episode dedicated to updating the country's consciousness of that words evolution. All for naught I suppose.:lol:
 
Ron Levy said:
Not true. They've stripped ATP's of their tickets on the "good moral character" clause over offenses having nothing to do with alcohol/substance abuse or driving quite a few times, but not so much for CP and below.
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I've always found the "Good Moral Character" clause a bit humorous. With just over twenty years of airline experience I can honestly say if the feds ever REALLY pushed this we would find that part 121 air travel would effectively ground to a halt !
 
For those of us without medicals, are we not required to report any of this? I thought we had to report arrests, DUI, etc.
 
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