So... What if Election Day can't happen?

RJM62

RJM62

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
13,157
Location
Upstate New York
Display Name
Geek on the Hill
So let's suppose that widespread power and communications outages were to occur because of the storm and couldn't be repaired by Election Day, rendering the new, electronic voting machines useless. Election Day is fixed by the Constitution, not by statute; so it can't be re-scheduled.

How would such a constitutional crisis be handled?

-Rich
 
The entire civilization planetwide will collapse. The universe will come to an end.

I say we conduct a 4 year experiment. No president. Just put a rock on the presidents desk and leave it there doing nothing for 4 years. See what changes that is so different and important that a human doing something has to occupy that position.
I doubt anything will change at all. Same exact crap, same exact BS. The only difference is that there will be no lightning rod on the capitol building to make the people feel good about the nonsense that goes on inside.
 
Macht nichts. End of world happens on Dec. 21, 2012.

Wait, weren't we all to perish Y2K?
 
I would guess the Supreme Court would intervene and re-establish a new election day.

Or the democrats would just say Obama wins by default.
 
RJM62 said:
So let's suppose that widespread power and communications outages were to occur because of the storm and couldn't be repaired by Election Day, rendering the new, electronic voting machines useless. Election Day is fixed by the Constitution, not by statute; so it can't be re-scheduled.

How would such a constitutional crisis be handled?

-Rich
Click to expand...

Emergency Executive Order would seem sufficient and simple seems to me.
 
The answer is neither one of those jokers can take office and the speaker of the house will take over, only to be forcibly removed by the Secretary of Defense and we will endure the next four years under martial law.

And end up with a balanced budget.
 
fgcason said:
The entire civilization planetwide will collapse. The universe will come to an end.

I say we conduct a 4 year experiment. No president. Just put a rock on the presidents desk and leave it there doing nothing for 4 years. See what changes that is so different and important that a human doing something has to occupy that position.
I doubt anything will change at all. Same exact crap, same exact BS. The only difference is that there will be no lightning rod on the capitol building to make the people feel good about the nonsense that goes on inside.
Click to expand...
I like that idea. The number of vacation flights made by Air Force One would decline precipitously!
 
fgcason said:
The entire civilization planetwide will collapse. The universe will come to an end.

I say we conduct a 4 year experiment. No president. Just put a rock on the presidents desk and leave it there doing nothing for 4 years. See what changes that is so different and important that a human doing something has to occupy that position.
I doubt anything will change at all. Same exact crap, same exact BS. The only difference is that there will be no lightning rod on the capitol building to make the people feel good about the nonsense that goes on inside.
Click to expand...

Didn't we just do that??? :dunno:
 
It is very possible that we will soon experience canceled elections due to "national security reasons" in the not too distant future anyway, so a storm would be good practice. If it ever does happen, I think our famous apathy will take charge. We will all watch about it on the news, then have dinner.

-John
 
RJM62 said:
Election Day is fixed by the Constitution...
Click to expand...

Actually, it's not. From Article II, Section 1:

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
Click to expand...

The word "November" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution, and I can't find any mention of the popular vote for President.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters.html
 
John Baker said:
It is very possible that we will soon experience canceled elections due to "national security reasons" in the not too distant future anyway, so a storm would be good practice. If it ever does happen, I think our famous apathy will take charge. We will all watch about it on the news, then have dinner.

-John
Click to expand...

I heard speculation like that during the Bush Administration. I thought the chances were miniscule then, and I still think they're miniscule.

One obstacle to that happening is that enlistees in the military swear an oath to "...support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/swearing-in-for-military-service.html
 
Last edited:
Palmpilot said:
Actually, it's not. From Article II, Section 1:



The word "November" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution, and I can't find any mention of the popular vote for President.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters.html
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, what I meant was that if it could not be conducted in storm-affected areas, it could not be re-scheduled because it already had been scheduled and had to be on the same day throughout the United States. Obviously the storm won't cause power and communication problems everywhere. I hope...

The popular vote is the day the electors are chosen.

-Rich
 
Yeah, I think the Pres would have to delay the election nationwide by emergency order. It would be expensive bet not tragic.
 
RJM62 said:
I'm sorry, what I meant was that if it could not be conducted in storm-affected areas, it could not be re-scheduled because it already had been scheduled and had to be on the same day throughout the United States. Obviously the storm won't cause power and communication problems everywhere. I hope...

The popular vote is the day the electors are chosen.

-Rich
Click to expand...

Only the day that the electors cast their votes has to be the same nationwide. That date is determined by Congress.

The method of choosing who the electors are is entirely up to the legislatures of the various states.

My point is that if an emergency interferes with either the popular vote or the vote of the electors, it is within the power of the legislatures or Congress, respectively, to delay them. No Constitutional crisis would be involved.
 
Wouldn't they just go paper voting only and run the paper ballots through the machine once the power came back up?

Come to think of it, wouldn't they just be able to pick up some generators from the home depot to run the polling place?
 
cowman said:
Wouldn't they just go paper voting only and run the paper ballots through the machine once the power came back up?

Come to think of it, wouldn't they just be able to pick up some generators from the home depot to run the polling place?
Click to expand...

As far as #1 goes, I'm sure they'd all enjoy the "hanging chads" crap again.

#2, no way they'd ever be that prepared. Not in a million years.
 
Come on, if any idiot on the street could figure it out surely the government can....

Oh, right. nevermind.
 
Not all paper ballots are the punchout type which produce "hanging chads". We here vote paper ballots and all you do is connect the two haves of an arrow with a line.
 
If the election is not held will anyone care as long as they promise to stop the election commercials and TFR's.

Remember, if it's bad it's the fault of congress, if it's good the president takes credit!

Doug
 
cowman said:
Wouldn't they just go paper voting only and run the paper ballots through the machine once the power came back up?

Come to think of it, wouldn't they just be able to pick up some generators from the home depot to run the polling place?
Click to expand...

Lotsa luck finding a generator. I looked within a 50-mile radius and didn't find a single one -- and that was earlier in the week. They've all been sold. Every last one of them. I suspect many of the buyers are keeping them in the sealed boxes so they can return them if the power doesn't go out.

I could have "reserved" one by paying in advance and going on a waiting list, but there would be no guarantee one would arrive before the storm. I did get an inverter that runs off the car battery, but it's only 750 watts -- enough to charge my laptop or possibly the UPS (not sure about the latter yet), or maybe brew a cup of coffee, but not much more.

Back to the ballot machines... I'm not certain, but I think the machines may need a data connection. I was voter No. 1 in the most recent election (seriously, I really was -- this is a very small town), and I was delayed about 15 minutes while some geek resolved some sort of connectivity problem with the machine. I'm speculating that, at the least, it may need to authenticate itself over a data or POTS line before accepting ballots.

-Rich
 
Yes, they require a data connection. If the whole grid is down, so is the election server.

If that happens, the lawyers would just steal the election. Sigh. Think, the 2000 attempt by Al Gore, et. al. :(
 
RJM62 said:
Lotsa luck finding a generator. I looked within a 50-mile radius and didn't find a single one -- and that was earlier in the week. They've all been sold. Every last one of them. I suspect many of the buyers are keeping them in the sealed boxes so they can return them if the power doesn't go out.

I could have "reserved" one by paying in advance and going on a waiting list, but there would be no guarantee one would arrive before the storm. I did get an inverter that runs off the car battery, but it's only 750 watts -- enough to charge my laptop or possibly the UPS (not sure about the latter yet), or maybe brew a cup of coffee, but not much more.

Back to the ballot machines... I'm not certain, but I think the machines may need a data connection. I was voter No. 1 in the most recent election (seriously, I really was -- this is a very small town), and I was delayed about 15 minutes while some geek resolved some sort of connectivity problem with the machine. I'm speculating that, at the least, it may need to authenticate itself over a data or POTS line before accepting ballots.

-Rich
Click to expand...

I'm sure the national guard/army/etc have generators around that they can rapidly deploy, along with portable data uplinks... although I have to admit I don't know what network these machines go through.

Still, if little old me could figure out how to rig something like that, you'd hope there was someone who could do it for elections. However, this is the government so who knows. I'm just saying it should be technically possible.
 
cowman said:
Wouldn't they just go paper voting only and run the paper ballots through the machine once the power came back up?

Come to think of it, wouldn't they just be able to pick up some generators from the home depot to run the polling place?
Click to expand...

Then you face the whole argument about people not being able to get to the polls.
 
The most unfortunate part of the storm is it forces the candidates to spend more time in Ohio since they can't bug the voters on the east coast like in Virginia. :rolleyes:

I wonder if I will be able to get in the air at all until after election day. :sad:

Cheers
 
No one really votes for President on November 6 - they vote for electors. Every single one of those states except for NH is going to vote for Obama. Just give them all to him and count the rest.
 
Palmpilot said:
No Constitutional crisis would be involved.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

The proposed scenario causes a personal problem for many, but that's about it. People have routinely been unable to vote due to weather since the American revolution. The only difference in this case is the number of people affected.

No one in any of the Confederate States during the American civil war got to vote for the U.S. president, yet the election of 1864 went ahead as scheduled.
 
LDJones said:
We've tried that since 2008.
Click to expand...

Oh please. How do you figure that without invalidating your flight medical? There has been a human with that job every year and damned near every day since the beginning over 200 years ago up to and including today.

Human. Rock. Not the same thing. Not even close.

When I say rock, I mean rock.
 
bbchien said:
Yes, they require a data connection. If the whole grid is down, so is the election server.

If that happens, the lawyers would just steal the election. Sigh. Think, the 2000 attempt by Al Gore, et. al. :(
Click to expand...

Not ours. our voting machines are networked with each other within a polling place, but not to anything else. we could also issue paper only and optiscan them later.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 
fgcason said:
Oh please. How do you figure that without invalidating your flight medical? There has been a human with that job every year and damned near every day since the beginning over 200 years ago up to and including today.

Human. Rock. Not the same thing. Not even close.

When I say rock, I mean rock.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right, of course. Regardless of political affiliation, there is no doubt that the current president has made many important decisions and taken clear action over the past four years. Had he not, the economy would be fully recovered by now, unemployment and gas prices would be lower than when he took office, and we wouldn't have lost critical allies in the Middle East (not to mention the loss of a US Ambassador). Too bad we didn't have the literal rock instead.


JKG
 
Jim Logajan said:
Indeed.

The proposed scenario causes a personal problem for many, but that's about it. People have routinely been unable to vote due to weather since the American revolution. The only difference in this case is the number of people affected.

No one in any of the Confederate States during the American civil war got to vote for the U.S. president, yet the election of 1864 went ahead as scheduled.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I agree. Further, we know this is coming. If you want to vote and your state permits it, vote early.
 
More important question: If no one could vote, would my local liquor store still have to close?
 
JGoodish said:
You're absolutely right, of course. Regardless of political affiliation, there is no doubt that the current president has made many important decisions and taken clear action over the past four years. Had he not, the economy would be fully recovered by now, unemployment and gas prices would be lower than when he took office, and we wouldn't have lost critical allies in the Middle East (not to mention the loss of a US Ambassador). Too bad we didn't have the literal rock instead.
Click to expand...

Well that's certainly a very one-sided assessment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top