So I'm in a bit of a tough decision for the path I want to take in education.

WBBulldogs

WBBulldogs

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I've always had a deep passion for aviation and aircraft. Always looked up into the sky everytime I heard something buzzing in the air. I'm just really confused on what to do and usually you guys seem to help me wander and get back on the road to success. I'm about to be separated from the military (downsizing sucks) I had been an Aviation Electrician and Electronics Tech for 5 years. Have experience with working on electronics at the component level and working on Sikorsky MH-60's.

I really want to pursue a career as a pilot. I'm so dedicated I've been saving all the money I can to fund the PPL. I know people say I will make nothing at first and maybe for length of time. As I prepare to get out I have the GI Bill I can use to go to college. I was recommended something completely separate from aviation so to have a backup career. So I was thinking of getting a BS in IT. I already have about a year and a half done of college courses. Mostly General Ed. But I was thinking of the more specialized colleges with aviation programs.

My decision comes in here: I am wondering if I should go to college while taking lessons or do one first over the other? I also thought of using the GI Bill solely on flight training. I was thinking of was a BS in Meterorolgy w/ Flight Option (CPL/ME) or BS in Aviation Management w/flight option (all the way to CPL and ME again) which is a business degree at a college. Are any of those two degress worth anything as a backup?

PoA what do you think is the best path?

Thanks in advance everyone!
 
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For starters, I would go over to one of the Professional Pilot boards to ask these questions. POA is a great discussion board, but it centers around mainly recreational type pilots, so you will get a really slanted view towards Professional Pilot careers here.

I too was an Aviation Electronics Tech (Navy) many years ago, I got out of the service and used my GI benefits to get my ratings. I've had a very successful career in aviation.

My advice is to follow your heart and dreams. Best of luck!
 
I was an EW in the Navy. I got my PPl while in the Navy. The CO was super impressed and tried to get me into some sort of OCS but I was too old, even with waivers for any of the program's available. (this was 1995 or so).

So, I got out and went to FlightSafety Intnl and burned up my GI Bill. I've now been a professional pilot since 2000. It's worked out pretty good for me...but my timing was pretty good too. When I was a CFI at FSI the regionals were hiring like crazy. I upgraded in 14 months in a CRJ and planes were arriving left and right. Times were good.

Times arn't so good right now. Upgrades at regionals is half a decade minimum. Not saying that won't change, but that's where we are now. The majors have farmed a bunch of their domestic flying to the regionals so the regionals had to grow...that growth is done. Now you just have massive regionals with thousands of pilots and the talk is mergers and furloughs now.

Plus, the majors have, in bankruptcy, shredded their piot contracts. Gone are the pensions and QOL issues that airlines were famous for. It's still a good gig if you're a 777 Captain, but getting there would take 30 years and a great amount of luck.

There is good news. Pilots are getting old and retirement is going to knock a ton of them out of the cockpit. The age 60 rule (mandatory retirement age) got moved to 65 and that created a huge bubble of non-movement...FOs not upgrading because the Captains had five extra years to stay. Well, that bubble has passed. The five year extension happened five years ago and those then 60 year old are now retiring again.

With all that said, I'd get a degree doing something other than flying. If you like IT then that's a super route. Maybe computer science? My best advise is make a ton of money doing something else and then buy yourself a plane and fly all you want.

Making a living as a pilot is a rough road. I'm NOT pushing my boys to do it.
 
WBBulldogs said:
I really want to pursue a career as a pilot. I'm so dedicated I've been saving all the money I can to fund the PPL. I know people say I will make nothing at first and maybe for length of time. As I prepare to get out I have the GI Bill I can use to go to college. I was recommended something completely separate from aviation so to have a backup career. So I was thinking of getting a BS in IT. I already have about a year and a half done of college courses. Mostly General Ed. But I was thinking of the more specialized colleges with aviation programs.

My decision comes in here: I am wondering if I should go to college while taking lessons or do one first over the other? I also thought of using the GI Bill solely on flight training. I was thinking of was a BS in Meterorolgy w/ Flight Option (CPL/ME) or BS in Aviation Management w/flight option (all the way to CPL and ME again) which is a business degree at a college. Are any of those two degress worth anything as a backup?

PoA what do you think is the best path?

Thanks in advance everyone!
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Yes, college and lessons simultaneously. The goal will be to have your ratings, 1500hrs, and your degree to come together nearly simultaneously for your career advancement. It gets more difficult to finish that degree once you're out flying on the line and you need the degree to move from the regionals to the majors.
 
I am using the GI Bill right now to earn my PPL through a Part 141 school. It is a 2-year college and will also net me my commercial and instrument ratings. If you use the old GI Bill it will only pay 60% of the cost. Also, that would only be paid out after the certificates are completed. I was told by the VA liaison that under the Post 9/11 Bill, however, they will pay $17,500/year for flight training and related ratings. Currently I am under the old bill but will be changing this summer. I would have done it sooner but I had already started when I found out about the money difference.
 
Be sure you fully understand what you're getting into, then follow your heart as informed by your brain.
 
College for sure, and at least simultaneously if not first. While you can do flight training while working full time or even going to college, once you start a flying job, you won't have time for college. I know -- I tried doing grad school at night while holding a charter pilot job. Only way I finished my master's degree was when I returned to active duty and the service made graduate education a priority.

As for the career, you won't get rich in aviation, but you'll have a lot of fun.
 
I would use the GI to get a marketable degree. Pursuing flight training part 61 will be much more attainable on a decent salary and saving for it. I'd advise against the zero-to-hero approach to getting your licenses. Regionals are no longer 3 year tenures into the right seat of a mainline jet. Regionals are where the majority of flying enthusiasts dreams go to die when they realize you can't do 35-45K/yr for 10 years and keep your family and human sensibilities.

As to airline work. Yeah I decided against it (Im a military pilot) but if you decide you really want to take a stab at it, roll on over to one of the professional airline forums and peruse the regionals sub section for a while. If the thought of landing flat on your backside furloughed/displaced as a lifer regional FO/CA at 36-40y/o is tenable to you, by all means roll the dice. You could have an uninterrupted "UPS-on-a-good-day-with-day-trip-schedule" airline career until you retire... Or you could be making less than you did when you got out of the Navy for decades and then get furloughed. Im not being hyperbolic, Im in the AF Reserves and all my bros are mainline pilots. Their presence in my squadron is the only evidence I need not to pursue that line of work. If the job was that great why would these well-to-do Lt Cols hang out at the squadron for "odd end money" huh? And by odd end money I mean that's what they're living on because they've been furloughed by AA or the like and I don't think AA knows where they put their cell phone number they've been furloughed for so long. Eff that noise. And these people have MLOA (mil leave of absence) to juggle the economics of a furlough; most civilian-only dudes got a lump o coal for an option when the airline job backfires, which seems like it does early and often. I digress.

Don't do an aviation major. Get a job that pays money. Use said money to do what you want. Don't throw away that GI bill on flight training. Good luck.
 
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Just a comment - I'm not a professional pilot - but I have worked at a pretty large engineering company. Some of the best EEs I've had the chance to work with came from a military electronics background, then went to college to earn their BS/EE.

Something to think about - especially if you can get your ratings at the same time.
 
Matthew said:
Just a comment - I'm not a professional pilot - but I have worked at a pretty large engineering company. Some of the best EEs I've had the chance to work with came from a military electronics background, then went to college to earn their BS/EE.

Something to think about - especially if you can get your ratings at the same time.
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I'm inclined to agree, based on my own experiences in the industry. Go for a BSEE as your primary education endeavor, and learn to fly at the same time.

You mentioned possibly going for a BSIT in your post. I think the BSEE would be a much better choice, for two reasons.

First of all, BSITs and BSCSs are a dime a dozen. Back when I had employees, I used to get hundreds of replies to ads for part-time IT work from holders of recently and not-so-recently-minted BSIT / BSCS degrees. There's simply a glut of geeks.

Secondly, I've been less than awed by the practical abilities of most IT or CS grads I've known. The EE guys were far and away better equipped, in my opinion.

I can only speak for myself, but if my experiences were typical, then my advice would be to go for a BSEE with a minor in IT or CS. It's a more impressive and useful degree that will open more doors in either industry.

-Rich
 
Buy the cheapest C-150, Tomahawk, or Skipper you can buy that has a reasonably fresh (<7yo, <700hr) low/mid time engine and an IFR panel. Learn to fly start building your experience, your ratings, get your CFI now you have a college business that buys you food and builds you time. If you've got the extra scratch down, a Travel Air would let you do it with a twin and build multi time.
 
Henning said:
Buy the cheapest C-150, Tomahawk, or Skipper you can buy that has a reasonably fresh (<7yo, <700hr) low/mid time engine and an IFR panel. Learn to fly start building your experience, your ratings, get your CFI now you have a college business that buys you food and builds you time. If you've got the extra scratch down, a Travel Air would let you do it with a twin and build multi time.
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The nice thing about being a CFI is that you can usually find freelance work. Flying around for a couple hours a week and some on weekends for $25-$40 an hour is not bad extra spending money, I wish I had a job like that in college. I worked for $10-$12/hr cash when i was in school. Hard to find a part time job / flex hours that pays well. Being a full time CFI is not the most lucrative gig (though some niche jobs are an exception) but its not bad for part time work, especially considering you are racking up hours.

That said, it takes thousands of dollars to get your CFI rating. If you have GI benefits it might make sense to knock it out and then start college, instructing on nights and weekends. 4 years later you will have a degree and a bunch of hours, you'll be a prime candidate for a career flying job.
 
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Matthew said:
Just a comment - I'm not a professional pilot - but I have worked at a pretty large engineering company. Some of the best EEs I've had the chance to work with came from a military electronics background, then went to college to earn their BS/EE.

Something to think about - especially if you can get your ratings at the same time.
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The best technicians I've worked with over the years were Navy ETs (or former ETs). Great training in that program.

Education comes first, but if you can fly at the same time, so much the better. And I agree, the BSEE is a great option. I'm biased, however, that's my degree (from a long time ago...).
 
Very few schools will allow freelance work. None in my area will.

A degree is not necessary for a career in aviation. With the cost of a degree these days, unless you're going into a degree which requires college certification and training such as medicine, then you may be well advised to concentrate on your career rather than filling the degree box.

I'm well into my own career and have no degree. To each his own, but there are more than a few of us doing this who don't have a degree. Some will tell you that lack of a degree will seriously hamper your progress, and to some respect, they're right, but what's important is your flight experience.

That said, don't neglect a degree; it's a credential, and one that some employers take seriously. When it comes to being competitive, while you may have a degree in something unrelated, having the degree may net you the job when the guy next to you has none.

Not all degrees are equal, and not all jobs are equal. You need to know that once you enter the work force, you're going to be starving for the first ten years or so. You also need to know that many aviation schools (and colleges) will lie to you outright about your job prospects. Have a job and have an income outside flying.

The path that many used over the past few years, flight school to a regional airline, is drying up fast. The jobs have always paid nothing, well below the poverty line, but soon one will need 1,500 hours to get one of those jobs, and the leap from flight school to those seats will be over.
 
Or if you find pilots with their own plane. Someone looking for an instrument rating... Bfr..
 
dell30rb said:
Or if you find pilots with their own plane. Someone looking for an instrument rating... Bfr..
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Much less opportunity and income than if you provide the plane. Most of those people are hiring an experienced local instructor with a reputation. His market will be other students.
 
Think about this, too. As a EE, you will have a chance to latch onto an avionics outfit and possibly get into their flight-test engineering group. There are more than a couple ways to fly - and some of them will pay the bills.
 
Matthew said:
Think about this, too. As a EE, you will have a chance to latch onto an avionics outfit and possibly get into their flight-test engineering group. There are more than a couple ways to fly - and some of them will pay the bills.
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Just remember, you'll be competing with 1000s of other fresh engineers with the same dream looking for the same job single job opening.:rolleyes:
 
You willing to wager on the total earnings of EE's vs pilots for their career?

Henning said:
Just remember, you'll be competing with 1000s of other fresh engineers with the same dream looking for the same job single job opening.:rolleyes:
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wabower said:
You willing to wager on the total earnings of EE's vs pilots for their career?
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:confused::confused: Hell yeah, I'll bet the average EE makes 3-10xs what he would make as a pilot. I was referencing 1000s of fresh engineer/pilots trying for those couple of test pilot jobs at manufactures.
 
I never said it was a GOOD chance!

Around here, Honeywell and Garmin are big players - there are chances, and his background gives him a leg up on the competition.
 
Wow, lots of good information in this thread. Thanks everyone. You guys have definitely got me thinking a lot into my plans. I still wanna shoot for my PPL at least while in community college and maybe go further as time allows. With all this talk about EE I might go back to my original plan of pursuing a BSEE. That was my first plan but I strayed and thought BSIT would be a good in demand job. Perhaps I will go for EE. I think I might just use the GI Bill solely for college and the degree and use whatever savings or get a PT job for flight lessons.
 
WBBulldogs said:
Wow, lots of good information in this thread. Thanks everyone. You guys have definitely got me thinking a lot into my plans. I still wanna shoot for my PPL at least while in community college and maybe go further as time allows. With all this talk about EE I might go back to my original plan of pursuing a BSEE. That was my first plan but I strayed and thought BSIT would be a good in demand job. Perhaps I will go for EE. I think I might just use the GI Bill solely for college and the degree and use whatever savings or get a PT job for flight lessons.
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Welcome to POA. Congratulations on the decision to join the ranks of "Pilot In Command."

Let me throw in a word of caution. Full-time college plus part-time job plus flight lessons sounds like a very, very heavy load. Even though I'm sure you are young enough to carry a heavy load, remember that the best way to attack learning to fly is to give it the time and energy to fly at least 3 times a week. I found (but I'm old) that an hour of flight training burns the energy of 3 hours of anything else. And then, there is the studying for flight competing for brain-power against the demands of school.

BTW, thanks for your service to the country. It looks like you are going to have the opportunity to use that service to the best advantage. Lots of thought and information-gathering going up front before the decision is made.
 
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WBBulldogs said:
Wow, lots of good information in this thread. Thanks everyone. You guys have definitely got me thinking a lot into my plans. I still wanna shoot for my PPL at least while in community college and maybe go further as time allows. With all this talk about EE I might go back to my original plan of pursuing a BSEE. That was my first plan but I strayed and thought BSIT would be a good in demand job. Perhaps I will go for EE. I think I might just use the GI Bill solely for college and the degree and use whatever savings or get a PT job for flight lessons.
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I'm a former Army ground-pounder going through similar transitions, and here's my advice: Post 9/11 G.I. Bill also gives you BAH at E-5 rate while you're attending school. Based on how long you served active duty there is also a percentage system. 36mo's and over I believe is the 100% line. You have ten years to use it. As for your service-related education (EE tech?) the Navy and Marines have an accredation tool (I think that's what it's called) "SMARTS;" every branch has something similar. Check it out, and look for schools which recognize credit for military education. You could (theoretically) shorten how much time it will take you to get that BSEE degree and open up more options, be it another degree program (aviation associates degree from an accredited flight school?) or then switching your GIB to flight training.
Best of luck.
 
My wife worked with a guy, Marine, who got his EE after his service. He found that some state universities would waive the residency requirements (most require 1 year of residency to qualify) for in-state tuition - some schools/states will, some won't.
 
So While I've been gone I've gathered lots of info and now I have narrowed three diff possibilities. I've read practically through this whole dang thread. I am 100% eligible. I have not transferred over to Post 9/11 which I can do at anytime.

Almost to my questions. I was informed by a VA rep that I can get up to 48 mos of education benefits as long as I exhaust all of the MGIB and then apply for one year of Post 9/11. Instead of only getting 36 mos for only the Post 9/11 or MGIB. Now my Questions:

What way (if anyone has expereince in using either GI Bill) would be best to use for flight training.

Should I just use 36 months of the MGIB (meaning I will have to pay 40%) which equals the VA reimbursing me up to approx $58,000 for the equivalent of 36 months (their 60%), my out of pocket would be about $35,000 (my 40%)? That would get me over $85,000 in flight training for a 35,000 investment on my part which is way less than what some kids are having to finance or pay for flight school plus I'm getting over 80 grand worth. Then after all that is said and done I'll have a year of Post 9/11 to either use on college with BAH for 12 months (3 semesters). I see this as an option as College is usually much cheaper than Flight training so I could pay for college out of pocket.

OR

Should I play it safe, go to a Community College then Uni using the Post 9/11 and use the BAH for flight training along the way and use the money I've been saving up for what I was gonna use for my 40% of the MGIB and supplement the BAH to help with flight training?

OR

I could also still use the MGIB to get 48 months (36 of MGIB and 12 of Post 9/11) and go to Community since it's so cheap and since the govt pays a flat rate of 1473 a month while attending plus my 150 (buy up program) for a total of 1623 a month (MGIB) and just pocket what I don't spend on classes and use on Flight training Then after 36 switch it over to Post 9/11 to finish up UNI and pocket BAH money for a year?
These are the three ways I have been deciding on and its hard to choose what will help me best in the long run for a job after my benefits run out. Help!
 
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