Slick Mag SB1-15A (12 Nov 2018)

they just want to get all that expensive copper back to melt down and resell!
 
Changed from copper electrode finger to monel, did they double the price too?

It amazes me how many years they have been manufacturing basically the same product and they still find new ways to screw it up.
 
The P-mags (variant of E-Mag) are pretty popular with the Van's crowd...plug/play electronic replacement for conventional magneto, but with built-in alternator that obviates need for a back-up battery.

They're $1350 each though...tempting, but first I'll have to see what the tax refund looks like!
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
The P-mags (variant of E-Mag) are pretty popular with the Van's crowd...plug/play electronic replacement for conventional magneto, but with built-in alternator that obviates need for a back-up battery.

They're $1350 each though...tempting, but first I'll have to see what the tax refund looks like!
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I have one P-Mag now and going for a second, thanks to this SB. I'll keep the Slick, post IRAN/new parts, as a backup in case a P-Mag needs to go in for something similar.

I wouldn't say they are finding new ways to screw up but rather new ways to improve. P-Mags have shown to be pretty solid after some early growing pains but still aren't without an occasional issue.
 
The Pmag looks attractive... costs $150 more than the Surefly, but uses automotive plugs and wires which cuts down on the cost, and has the internal generator which it doesn't look like the Surefly has?

How real are the claimed performance improvements?
 
I'm curious about the cost of the 500-hr inspection/service of the Slicks. If it's really pricey, that'd go a long way toward justifying the P-Mags. Anybody have a ballpark figure?

Folks claim the P-Mag will give you lower fuel burn and easier starting, especially with injected engines.
 
Dana said:
How real are the claimed performance improvements?
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My Slicks were about $400 each a few years ago for their 500 hr. One needed a new coil, so that added a bit.

Depends on your definition of "performance." P-Mags adjust timing based on RPM and MAP. During take-off and climb the most you'll see is improved spark (timing is about the same as a Mag - but somewhat configurable). Where electronic ignition shines is in cruise where it advances the timing (primarily for LOP ops) and improves fuel burn for improved fuel efficiency. Most who have tried one, then added another, say the first P-Mag gets you about 70-80% of the efficiency vs two P-Mags - so the second one takes longer to pay for itself in fuel savings. The biggest benefit noted with dual is easier hot starts. In summary, they eventually pay for themselves with fuel savings during cruise flight at higher altitudes (>7500).

The limiting factor with P-Mags vs other electronic ignitions (e.g. SDS) is that the advance curve is set by the MFG. You can only adjust the base timing (Adv Shift) and the Max Advance. Changing the Advance Shift moves the entire advance curve one way or the other, along with the base timing (e.g. 25 degrees BTDC) in increments of 1.4 degrees (360/255 bits). The SDS and other options allow for a customized curve for every 100 RPM and MAP setting but require a more robust electrical system (redundancy) and are more difficult to install. But, once installed, there are no moving parts (at least with SDS) to wear out.
 
Good info, Ray. I wish I knew how long I'm going to own my plane to see if the swap is worthwhile. At least another 700 hours which, at the rate I'm flying, is 7 years. Easier hot starts would be welcome.

WOT, LOP, and at 9000' DA, I'm seeing 155 kts at about 7.5 gph. Do you think that two P-Mags could bring that down to 7.0 gph at those same numbers? Probably doesn't make sense from the fiscal perspective...but there is need and there is want. :D
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Good info, Ray. I wish I knew how long I'm going to own my plane to see if the swap is worthwhile. At least another 700 hours which, at the rate I'm flying, is 7 years. Easier hot starts would be welcome.

Do you think that two P-Mags could bring that down to 7.0 gph at those same numbers?
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Hard to say, SoCal. If you are currently running dual Mags, installing one P-Mag is a no-brainer and *should* save you about 1-2 GPH. I typically fly my RV-7A at 9500-11500, 160 KTAS, 8 GPH, 2550-2600 RPM (not WOT) with a FP Catto 3 blade prop. Above 11.5, the Catto starts to hit its limit and I have to go WOT to get 160 KTAS but fuel burn actually goes down a little more. If I fly 155 KTAS, I get the same or slightly better fuel burn as you @ 2500 RPM. The nose gear is quite draggy compared to a tail wheel.

Every plane is a little different. I never flew with dual mags so I can't compare but will be upgrading the other mag to a P-Mag soon (thanks, in part, to this SB). I only expect a small reduction in fuel burn but easier hot starts (not terrible now) and fewer parts to wear out down the road. I replace the auto-plugs every year/100 hrs, as recommended by E-MagAir.
 
I appreciate the info. I wouldn't characterize the trike gear version as quite draggy compared to tail wheel...Van's data, which is pretty trustworthy, show only a 2 mph difference in top speed, or about 1 percent between the two variants. That tail wheel is small, but is typically not enclosed in a wheel pant. The speed increase is quite remarkable when you fit the gear leg fairings and wheel pants...I did the Phase 1 hours without them, and picked up about 18 kts (!) when they were in place.

My -9A is working hard to get that 155 KTAS...about 2700 rpm at typical cruising altitude of 9500' or so. You might try WOT at that altitude and adjust fuel burn/rpm with mixture. Less pumping losses with WOT so in theory more efficient.

Would be nice to go to auto plugs, but I kinda like the ritual of cleaning/gapping the massive electrodes at annual.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
They're $1350 each though...tempting, but first I'll have to see what the tax refund looks like!
Click to expand...

SoCal RV Flyer said:
Folks claim the P-Mag will give you lower fuel burn and easier starting, especially with injected engines.
Click to expand...

My entire plane is barely at 400 hours, but I had a Slick failure last month (loose coil wire). My mags were already removed by the previous owner for some other SB at 250 hours and I guess when returned to service, that mechanic didn't get the wire connected all the way. My buddy (RV8) has the P-Mags and fuel injection .... he said hot starts are a thing of the past now and he throws away the auto plugs each year. Seeing as I'm only 70 hours away from the 500, I may swap them for the P-Mags soon.
 
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