Slap me please.. I shouldn't be buying...or should I?

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TazzyTazzy

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Mitch
So... Perhaps I need a slap or something. First, i'm about 20% through my PPL training. I love it. My CFI says I'm way ahead on my skills given my number of flight hours.

For the past 2-3 months, I surf the web looking at used planes to see what's out there and I think I found a good C-172 locally where I live. It's air frame hours is decent, ~530 hours on the engine, the interior is in good shape. Its IFR rated so I can continue with my training. It's something I can afford.

Is it too early to be looking at planes at this point in my training?

I have no plans to go beyond IFR rating, but I know I want that so I don't get stuck along the coast or in the valley fog. I think the 172 will fit all my missions - mostly carrying me and the other half along with some folding bikes / camping gear so we can explore places.

Thoughts?
 
Bought my plane, a Cessna Cardinal right after I soloed.

Added a few hours to my PPL learning the constant speed prop and a new plane, but in the long much cheaper, and no regrets at all!

-Dan
 
Begin looking and try to fly in several aircraft. I did the same shortly after PPL and it took 2 years to find a good one. Don't lock in on the 172 or 152 just because you train in it. Shortly after PPL you'll want more speed (who doesn't) for longer cross country capability (which is why you're getting the PPL). In short, you have to plan for what you THINK you're mission(s) will be 90% of the time. Don't buy a STOL tail dragger with tundra tires if you're only going camping every other year and you're mostly on pavement.

I chose the Tiger. To me, it seems to handle HIGH cross winds better than the Cessna's did and has a good 130 knot cruise speed while not burning a ton of AV-gas. Most of my trips are only myself and one PAX. Maintenance is pretty simple and straight forward as well.
 
As long as the costs of owning and operating don't crash your other financial budgets and plans, I see nothing wrong with that.
 
I bought a new CTSW before I started training. It was a hell of an incentive to follow through and get my certificate.
 
It's too early. Get your cert first, then buy a plane. I promise there will still be many 172s out there in a couple of months.
 
Unless you have a really good idea what your mission will be (I'd bet that you dont), don't buy a plane.

If you have a really good idea of your mission, then go ahead. However, I had a really good idea of my mission and still didn't buy a plane until 225 TT.
 
Wow. Thanks for all the responses.

I know I don't want a 152 - don't fit in it. The 182 is too big since it'll be mostly just us 2 with our bicycles / hiking gear for the day/weekend.

We will do a full review of our budget and finances tonight. It's halloween, hope we don't get too scared. :)
 
TazzyTazzy said:
The 182 is too big since it'll be mostly just us 2 with our bicycles / hiking gear for the day/weekend.
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Actually, don't toss it out too soon. Once you start flying more, you'll find reasons to really like what a 182 brings to the hangar. Intangible things like increased cabin comfort, range, speed, carrying capacity can easily balance out the additional acquisition and operating costs.

If the 182 is still outside your budget, then check out the Cardinals (C177). There are many good "B" models out there at attractive prices. Cardinals are a good "middle ground" choice between the Skyhawk and Skylane.
 
AggieMike88 said:
There are many good "B" models out there at attractive prices. Cardinals are a good "middle ground" choice between the Skyhawk and Skylane.
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I just weighed a 1977 B model that has 815 useful. :nonod:


My biggest gripe about 177's is, most of the ones for sale have terribly old radios for >$35k-$40k
 
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I bought a Cherokee 140 when I had about 10 hours. It has worked for me and fits the mission you describe well (I have two folding bikes and regularly haul camping equipment). I have about 375 with maybe 350 of those in that plane.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
Wow. Thanks for all the responses.

I know I don't want a 152 - don't fit in it. The 182 is too big since it'll be mostly just us 2 with our bicycles / hiking gear for the day/weekend.

We will do a full review of our budget and finances tonight. It's halloween, hope we don't get too scared. :)
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If just 2 people, you can always pull the back seat out (30 ish pounds) and have more room for gear etc if you buy a 172, 177 or 182
 
danhagan said:
Begin looking and try to fly in several aircraft. I did the same shortly after PPL and it took 2 years to find a good one. Don't lock in on the 172 or 152 just because you train in it. Shortly after PPL you'll want more speed (who doesn't) for longer cross country capability (which is why you're getting the PPL). In short, you have to plan for what you THINK you're mission(s) will be 90% of the time. Don't buy a STOL tail dragger with tundra tires if you're only going camping every other year and you're mostly on pavement.

I chose the Tiger. To me, it seems to handle HIGH cross winds better than the Cessna's did and has a good 130 knot cruise speed while not burning a ton of AV-gas. Most of my trips are only myself and one PAX. Maintenance is pretty simple and straight forward as well.
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Doing 65 knots out of Hilton Head with a headwind cemented this feeling for me.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
So... Perhaps I need a slap or something. First, i'm about 20% through my PPL training. I love it. My CFI says I'm way ahead on my skills given my number of flight hours.

For the past 2-3 months, I surf the web looking at used planes to see what's out there and I think I found a good C-172 locally where I live. It's air frame hours is decent, ~530 hours on the engine, the interior is in good shape. Its IFR rated so I can continue with my training. It's something I can afford.

Is it too early to be looking at planes at this point in my training?

I have no plans to go beyond IFR rating, but I know I want that so I don't get stuck along the coast or in the valley fog. I think the 172 will fit all my missions - mostly carrying me and the other half along with some folding bikes / camping gear so we can explore places.

Thoughts?
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Where you live and fly? If you're up in the mountains somewhere our opinions on which plane changes.
 
bnt83 said:
My biggest gripe about 177's is, most of the ones for sale have terribly old radios for >$35k-$40k
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True. But if the 177 was sound in the engine and airframe, I can work with older radios while I save up for replacing with new(er) equipment.

Not as easy to do it the other way when there is a modern panel, and there are significant questions about powerplant and airframe.
 
Unless you find a deal of the century, I'd wait.

You don't buy a car before you get your driver's license right?
 
txflyer said:
Unless you find a deal of the century, I'd wait.

You don't buy a car before you get your driver's license right?
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I honestly think aircraft prices will decrease more as the 2020 ADS-B deadline approaches. Or there will be more just sitting and not flying.
 
A doctor I know, bought a new mooney from weber in Lancaster penna. Years ago and called a buddy and asked him to teach him how to fly. He was a quick study, got an instrument and grew bored with the mooney. He Then bought a ted smith arrowstar from weber, Flew it quite a bit also. Be sure and check out a mooney if you don't have large family. For two adults and one child in the back it's like a porsche with wings. I think people start flying in many different ways. I don't really have the answer. It's up to you. If you like to drag a lot of stuff along the mooney is no good for you. I just love to fly one, super 21, 201, you name it.
 
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bnt83 said:
I honestly think aircraft prices will decrease more as the 2020 ADS-B deadline approaches. Or there will be more just sitting and not flying.
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If this economy tanks again, which I think is inevitable, it will be a double whammy to GA.

We're gonna see planes for sale like you've never seen before. It's been going on since the 2007 pop. The VLJ market died on the spot. Some twins are practically being given away, and new student starts are going extinct.

It's no surprise an underground culture in the form of LSA-Exp would spring up in the face of the STC'd FAA'd $$$$ monster known as GA.
 
I live in Sacramento and plan to fly mostly along the coast, but would like the ability to get east of here without having to travel too far south first. I also have many friends up in Seattle area that I visit frequently.

As far what to carry. There are two of us, and in a couple years, a little one. :) We live in a simple house and non-fancy but reliable cars (nothing German, but that's an entire different story) as those things don't matter to much for us. We both love traveling and being outdoors - hence the hiking / folding bike gear. We don't actually own a folding bike but plan to once I get my PPL.

I've heard stories of many people giving up their planes once kids come along due to funds, but we are comfortable with our house and cars and make a decent living and feel it's something we can afford.

Well. I'll just look for now. I'll just keep my eyes/ears open for another great plane. This one is a 172 with a 180hp conversion with adjusted weight to 2550 making a usable load of 1070 pounds (or something near that). :) That's why I liked it so much. The air frame has 8k hours, while the engine has 500. They have papers showing the new adjusted weight.

Cheers.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
I live in Sacramento and plan to fly mostly along the coast, but would like the ability to get east of here without having to travel too far south first. I also have many friends up in Seattle area that I visit frequently.

As far what to carry. There are two of us, and in a couple years, a little one. :) We live in a simple house and non-fancy but reliable cars (nothing German, but that's an entire different story) as those things don't matter to much for us. We both love traveling and being outdoors - hence the hiking / folding bike gear. We don't actually own a folding bike but plan to once I get my PPL.

I've heard stories of many people giving up their planes once kids come along due to funds, but we are comfortable with our house and cars and make a decent living and feel it's something we can afford.

Well. I'll just look for now. I'll just keep my eyes/ears open for another great plane. This one is a 172 with a 180hp conversion with adjusted weight to 2550 making a usable load of 1070 pounds (or something near that). :) That's why I liked it so much. The air frame has 8k hours, while the engine has 500. They have papers showing the new adjusted weight.

Cheers.
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There are so many clubs in Cali IDK if it makes that much sense to own.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
I live in Sacramento and plan to fly mostly along the coast, but would like the ability to get east of here without having to travel too far south first. I also have many friends up in Seattle area that I visit frequently.

As far what to carry. There are two of us, and in a couple years, a little one. :) We live in a simple house and non-fancy but reliable cars (nothing German, but that's an entire different story) as those things don't matter to much for us. We both love traveling and being outdoors - hence the hiking / folding bike gear. We don't actually own a folding bike but plan to once I get my PPL.

I've heard stories of many people giving up their planes once kids come along due to funds, but we are comfortable with our house and cars and make a decent living and feel it's something we can afford.

Well. I'll just look for now. I'll just keep my eyes/ears open for another great plane. This one is a 172 with a 180hp conversion with adjusted weight to 2550 making a usable load of 1070 pounds (or something near that). :) That's why I liked it so much. The air frame has 8k hours, while the engine has 500. They have papers showing the new adjusted weight.

Cheers.
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Where in Sac are you? I fly out of Lincoln.
 
I flew as a passenger mostly but did take a bi annual once in a 172 with a 180 conversion. NICE airplane!
 
txflyer said:
Unless you find a deal of the century, I'd wait.

You don't buy a car before you get your driver's license right?
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Well....I didn't buy the car but it was sitting in the driveway waiting for me. On the other hand, Dad was fleet manager for Ford, so there was always a car for me. Never forgave him for selling "my" 1972 Thunderbird in school colors that I drove for 3 years...

But back to the OP - due to work and other emergencies, took me over 2 years for the PPL (still working on the IFR but not the 20+ years Nate went thru). Bought the cherokee a few months before the checkride. Would I like a faster airplane? Doesn't almost everyone? But it's fine for 80% of my flights, and the other 20% of the time I just live with it.

Rule #1 - don't rush. Unless it's an unusual model or type, there's lots of airplanes out there.
Rule #2 - fly other types, such as the 182 and perhaps a Dakota/Cherokee 235, see which ones suit your needs.
Rule #3 - Put together a list of annual expenses such as insurance, maintenance, wish list, etc. Buying the airplane is only the first and often the easiest step to take.
Rule #4 - don't rush.
 
You can figure all the costs associated with owning and then decide based on your circumstances. Or you could go with your impulse and just by one. I would definitely fly other aircraft to be sure I was purchasing the right plane for my mission. If you keep waiting on the economy you will never buy one.
 
Old Geek said:
I bought a new CTSW before I started training. It was a hell of an incentive to follow through and get my certificate.
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Yes, but did you fly it with one tank empty and 4-5 gallons in the other side? :rofl:
 
If you can afford EVERYTHING...not just what it costs to buy the airplane, then do it. Personally, I did the math and you have to fly a stupid amount to justify owning one outright. If you intend on flying 100 or so hours a year (doesn't sound like a lot - but start thinking about it) then it's more economically viable to get into some kind of a partnership.

I bought into a 4 way partnership about 3 weeks into my PPL training this January. A very well maintained Cherokee 235 with a senior partner who is a 20 year retired airline captain and knows the plane inside and out. We do owner assist maintenance and have an A&P that the group has been working with for a dozen years. So, I've had an amazing opportunity over the last 10 months to really know what's involved in owning an airplane at the benefit of only having to pay 25% of the operating costs.

So, I only had to cover ~25% of the value of the airplane which was less than a cheap used car. Insurance and hangar fees are the only monthly costs which are around $100 a month and we split the maintenance costs, parts we need, etc... 4 ways as they come up. We put $12/hr into an engine fund to cover the TBO when it comes up so no one has to write a big check.

I too was intrigued by the seemingly smallish cost to get into an airplane. But, the maintenance and other operational costs can eat you alive and perhaps sadly leave you with an airplane you can't fly because you can't afford it. Case in point - spending $700 to reskin a flap at annual, $550 starter that we just had to fix only to uncover solenoid problems that were another $400, etc...

Also, an airplane that flies regularly is a healthy airplane. Nothing worse than leaving a plane to sit for weeks at a time without flying. Even with 4 of us in the airplane ours will sit for a couple weeks at a time without getting flown.

Anyway, something to consider - great way to effectively spend money the first time around with the added benefit of learning the ropes without having to pay all the bills. It's nice having other folks around as well that can meet with the A&P, do some maintenance work, etc... when you don't have time to cover it.

Most important though - spend some quality time with anyone who you consider - meet everyone and trust your 'gut'. I got incredibly lucky I feel as these were the first group of guys I met and we all get along great - spend a lot of time together outside of the airport.
 
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I'm a first time owner. I bought 2 months ago, I believe the aircraft is great.

I tend to want to fix things rather than let them go, I do want everything working as advertised (fortunately I've had an A&P for years).

I didn't feel using rentals for regular cross country flights was practical, so I bought.

I also have a very busy schedule. I originally had maybe 1-2 days a week I could get down to the field for flying (weather permitting).

Access to an A&P is only part of the equation for an owner.

Initially, I spend the majority of my aviation time, dealing with owner responsibilities. Like, setting up a hangar with just enough stuff to fix anything without running an errand, even for simple stuff like airing tires.

Owner responsibilities require that I am all over the records of a 30 year old airplane.

I have to make sure all the flight manual supplements for all the STC mods are in my cockpit along with a current Operating Manual.

I have to make sure I have the Instructions For Continued Airworthiness for all the STCs available to maintain the plane or have anyone else maintain it.

I have to ensure every entry made in my log books by anyone working on my plane is correct. That is, correct registration number, correct S/Ns. correct tach times.

So far, I've been stung by that once and had to take them back for correction (it wasn't really on my way).

I found a missing 337 for a mod done about 9 years ago to address (have a solution, just need to get it done).

I think I may be legally responsible for ensuring all ADs are complied with, although AI found none outstanding at annual. Correctly resolving any issues takes time and research.

I should probably review all Service Bulletins to see which ones I feel have value. There are a lot of them.

Finding parts takes a lot of time.

I expect to get ahead of it. Every repair takes me a week, I have a few to deal with right off the bat.

You are the only one than can decide what you should do. I don't regret buying, and I knew there would be things I didn't see coming.

I do wish I had been able to fly more over the last month though.
 
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I bought a G-1000 C172SP with 63 hours on it when I was still pre-solo...

If I had it do do again...I wouldn't have bought that plane although I flew it 300 hours for a 5K hit in depreciation and got 300 hours of technically advanced aircraft time......

My $0.02's worth is to get your PPC...then buy...
 
TazzyTazzy said:
Is it too early to be looking at planes at this point in my training?


Thoughts?
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YES IT'S EARLY!!


I had about 100hrs before I bought my plane, I rented everything from the 7AC I learned to fly in, to a 172XP on straight floats to some complex low wings.

You would do well to rent and bum rides on everything you can, both standard and experimentals, BEFORE you pick a long term saddle.

There are soo many great airframes that are VERY diffrent, go fly a Maule, fly a glasair, fly a PA24, fly a Navion, fly a super Viking, C210, C180/5, lancair, Grumman AA5, fly a Nanchang CJ-6, etc etc

All GREAT aircraft, all have some small to large differences from each other. Only what you'll know what you want is to build some more experience and figure out your mission (which you won't fully understand till you get some time under your belt).
 
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txflyer said:
, and new student starts are going extinct.
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Uhh, as in new private pilot students?? I'm F'ing over run at my school, brought on another CFI, shoot, starting this school was sposed to be my side flying job too :hairraise:
 
txflyer said:
Unless you find a deal of the century, I'd wait.

You don't buy a car before you get your driver's license right?
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Lol, I probably bought about 200 cars before I had my drivers license, but then I was involved in the car business since 11 and would buy for the lot at the auction.;)
 
ChitDisturber said:
Uhh, as in new private pilot students?? I'm F'ing over run at my school, brought on another CFI, shoot, starting this school was sposed to be my side flying job too :hairraise:
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I guess there's lots of kids with ten grand or more burning a hole in their pocket where you're at, but they're not here.

Actually, I'm talking out my ass and guessing, new starts may be up, but I wonder how many complete? How fast?

GA is enormously expensive. To say it any other way is kidding yourself.
 
I'm one of the ones that has potentially screwed up, too. I have a friend I was going to partner with on a Cardinal 150hp (w/power flow) after I got my license. He owns it outright and offered me 50% for $10k, plus it takes mogas so it's "cheap" to fly. But I was able to get a hangar at the local airport that I had to jump on or face a possible 7 year waiting list. I am probably going to be able to just pay for my half of the hangar until I'm able to fly the 177. Not sure if I'll train in it or not.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
Wow. Thanks for all the responses.

I know I don't want a 152 - don't fit in it. The 182 is too big since it'll be mostly just us 2 with our bicycles / hiking gear for the day/weekend.

We will do a full review of our budget and finances tonight. It's halloween, hope we don't get too scared. :)
Click to expand...

182 are great planes. I'm just not a high wing dude.
 
I am at my point of soloing (haven't yet) and I am about to purchase a 1977 Piper Warrior II that has IFR junk so I can do that as well.

For me, I think it works out well and I know what I am getting into and have funds set aside for surprise maintenance and ongoing maintenance. I am excited to start training again and getting my PPL then IR while building hours in my own plane.

Hope this helps.
 
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