Skyvector

ircphoenix

ircphoenix

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ircphoenix
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I've seen some snipes taken at Skyvector, and preference for fltplan.

I think Skyvector is too pretty and handy to NOT use. fltplan's GUI is way less friendly.

What's the deal?
 
Dave went full on dick mode a while back and told a bunch of people to eff off. He didn't use those exact words, but that was the sentiment. Over the years he also created fake names on here pretending to be someone else and saying how great he and his site was, etc...

So a few of us refuse to patronize that type of person.
 
Is that the long and short of it, or are there features/prettiness I'm missing out on at Fltplan that make it superior?

I certainly can see not patronizing some dillhole's website when he has that kind of attitude....
 
I stuck with SV through the last change that some people p!ssed and moaned about, however over the last few months the performance of SV has gotten so horrific that I CANT use it...literally it's so bad I can't enter a point A to point B plan. I emailed him about it but it hasn't gotten any better. This is on different computers, different browsers etc... Other than that, I would still use it, you know, if it worked.
 
ircphoenix said:
Is that the long and short of it, or are there features/prettiness I'm missing out on at Fltplan that make it superior?
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A more robust database of actual recent ATC IFR routings, good default performance numbers for aircraft, and surprisingly accurate timing calculations might be three of the reasons FltPlan.com has been the go-to for Part 135 and Part 91 corporate for a long time.

I use Skyvector almost daily to get an overview of a future flight and, of course, to look at routing questions sometimes raised on online forums because of it's excellent graphic interface. But for real planning and route selection I still go to FltPlan.com.
 
EdFred said:
Dave went full on dick mode a while back and told a bunch of people to eff off. He didn't use those exact words, but that was the sentiment. Over the years he also created fake names on here pretending to be someone else and saying how great he and his site was, etc...

So a few of us refuse to patronize that type of person.
Click to expand...

Exactly that. And the less useful interface that he adopted for his site.

I now start with iflightplanner in place of skyvector. Then for IFR plans I check to see plans filed by previous pilots using fltplan and adjust my route accordingly, and go back to enter it into iflightplanner to see what the route looks like. Finally, I use fltplan to make my nav log with fuel burn and time calculation.

For IFR plans, it would be nice if one site combined the advantages of iflightplanner and fltplan so that I didn't have to iterate. Foreflight on the iPad comes very close to meeting that need, but not its browser-based variant for desktop use.
 
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Different sites for different uses

Sky vector is one of those site you just leave up on the screen and use for a general overview.

Fltplan is the one you use for actually accurate planning and filing
 
James331 said:
Sky vector is one of those site you just leave up on the screen and use for a general overview.
Click to expand...
That's what I use it for. I would use iflightplanner but it wont let me select any military bases.
 
I've gotten used to the new Skyvector interface and haven't had a problem with it. (I haven't tried it for filing flight plans, however.)
 
I guess maybe since I'm VFR only, I don't need the fltplan filing section. I'll have to check out the performance calculations though. I always thought there's gotta be a better way than having to custom enter the fields. I mean, for the most part, there's not gonna be a huge variation in performance between different certifieds compared to the book, right?
 
I refuse to use fltplan.

I use their password reset feature a couple of years ago and I soon relieved my email from them. With my password. In plain text. I emailed them my concerns and they seemed totally unconcerned with their lack of safe password handling.
 
jason said:
I refuse to use fltplan.

I use their password reset feature a couple of years ago and I soon relieved my email from them. With my password. In plain text. I emailed them my concerns and they seemed totally unconcerned with their lack of safe password handling.
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Am I missing something? Is your email account accessible by a bunch of people you don't want it to be accessible to?
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Am I missing something? Is your email account accessible by a bunch of people you don't want it to be accessible to?
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The first problem is email is sent across the wire in plain text. Anyone can intercept the packets and read them. In other words, email is inherently insecure.

The second problem is that if they were able to send him his password in plain text, that means they were storing it. Industry standard is to store passwords in a cryptographically hashed form. This is a one-way encryption, you can't decrypt it.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Am I missing something? Is your email account accessible by a bunch of people you don't want it to be accessible to?
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If they were able to send me my password, it wasn't stored properly. If they don't store passwords properly they don't care about securing the rest of their application. An insecure app and plain text passwords in your database is a recipe for disaster for your users.
 
dmspilot said:
The first problem is email is sent across the wire in plain text. Anyone can intercept the packets and read them. In other words, email is inherently insecure.

The second problem is that if they were able to send him his password in plain text, that means they were storing it. Industry standard is to store passwords in a cryptographically hashed form. This is a one-way encryption, you can't decrypt it.
Click to expand...

Got it, thanks. I'm not a computer guy(obviously)...
 
midlifeflyer said:
A more robust database of actual recent ATC IFR routings, good default performance numbers for aircraft, and surprisingly accurate timing calculations might be three of the reasons FltPlan.com has been the go-to for Part 135 and Part 91 corporate for a long time.

I use Skyvector almost daily to get an overview of a future flight and, of course, to look at routing questions sometimes raised on online forums because of it's excellent graphic interface. But for real planning and route selection I still go to FltPlan.com.
Click to expand...

Yep, I use Skyvector to do a wire-frame plan of what I want to do since the interface is nice. But I do my real planning in FltPlan
 
I have no issues with Skyvector (and was unaware that there was a local POA DH associated with it.) It's handy for pulling up a sectional and taking a quick look at the weather. And maybe some conceptual prelim planning.
 
Skyvector is for overview and big picture route planning on multi-day flights only. I did use if for filing flight plans until they started insisting I send a bunch of personal data to continue doing so.

I did, however, find it invaluable while flying around Africa. It was the only source of VFR data I could find and covered the whole continent, as well as providing the easiest source of TAF and METAR data.
 
Anyone else notice the new drone NOTAM overlay on sky vector now? Cool stuff
 
jason said:
If they were able to send me my password, it wasn't stored properly. If they don't store passwords properly they don't care about securing the rest of their application. An insecure app and plain text passwords in your database is a recipe for disaster for your users.
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I would get that concern if this were a bank or a file sharing service.

But what's the worst that could happen if someone hacked into fltplan.com?

I don't need to store my grocery list in Fort Knox, or use motion detectors and machine guns to keep the plants on the front porch secure. I don't use my fltplan.com password anywhere else, so if someone gets in and gains access to my plane's W&B data and the plan for the flight I almost took but then didn't, I really don't care.
 
Jim_R said:
I would get that concern if this were a bank or a file sharing service.

But what's the worst that could happen if someone hacked into fltplan.com?

I don't need to store my grocery list in Fort Knox, or use motion detectors and machine guns to keep the plants on the front porch secure. I don't use my fltplan.com password anywhere else, so if someone gets in and gains access to my plane's W&B data and the plan for the flight I almost took but then didn't, I really don't care.
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Do you believe that every fltplan user uses a password unique to fltplan? I do. But what percentage of their use base is now vulnerable to them using that password along with their email address on file to log in to gmail? Now they can reset their banking password...
 
labbadabba said:
Yep, I use Skyvector to do a wire-frame plan of what I want to do since the interface is nice. But I do my real planning in FltPlan
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Same. I like the fuel estimates in fltplan; best, worst, avg, current. Helps get a general idea.
 
jason said:
Do you believe that every fltplan user uses a password unique to fltplan? I do. But what percentage of their use base is now vulnerable to them using that password along with their email address on file to log in to gmail? Now they can reset their banking password...
Click to expand...
Well, since the most common password people use in general is "password," probably not. But hopefully folks with some degree of sense at least use two passwords — one for stuff they don't care about their privacy that much and another for stuff they do.
 
jason said:
Do you believe that every fltplan user uses a password unique to fltplan?
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No, but I also don't believe that's fltplan.com's problem. Personal responsibility and all that. Reasonable people may hold different opinions on that.
 
jason said:
I refuse to use fltplan.

I use their password reset feature a couple of years ago and I soon relieved my email from them. With my password. In plain text. I emailed them my concerns and they seemed totally unconcerned with their lack of safe password handling.
Click to expand...

Wow, I just requested my password from Fltlpan.com to see if they've rectified this, and you're right my password came back fully in the open!

I'm still going to continue to use fltplan though. Their estimates for my flight time that takes wind into account are always incredibly accurate.

Note to self: Don't share my bank account password with fltplan...
 
I still use Skyvector, as do many of my friends. The interface changes make it a little more cumbersome, but nothing that kills the deal for me.
 
jason said:
Do you believe that every fltplan user uses a password unique to fltplan? I do. But what percentage of their use base is now vulnerable to them using that password along with their email address on file to log in to gmail? Now they can reset their banking password...
Click to expand...

Simple solution: FltPlan puts a note on their site that they don't secure passwords internally.

"Don't use this password for anything important."

Anyone using the same password for everything they log into, at this stage of the security game, is just an accident waiting to happen anyway, and they're so far behind the curve, that throwing them a life preserver isn't going to help them at all. Their stall/spin has already started and they're only 200' AGL. They're dead, they just haven't hit the ground yet.
 
I use a unique password for each financial and email account. For other stuff, it's hit or miss.
 
denverpilot said:
Simple solution: FltPlan puts a note on their site that they don't secure passwords internally.

"Don't use this password for anything important."
Click to expand...
I suspect the passwords at FltPlan are more for tracking usage and perhaps reducing somewhat the "improper" use of the site than for any security reason. I think of a lot of sites that way.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I suspect the passwords at FltPlan are more for tracking usage and perhaps reducing somewhat the "improper" use of the site than for any security reason. I think of a lot of sites that way.
Click to expand...

Judging by my email inbox they're used for advertising and marketing.
 
denverpilot said:
midlifeflyer said:
I suspect the passwords at FltPlan are more for tracking usage and perhaps reducing somewhat the "improper" use of the site than for any security reason. I think of a lot of sites that way.
Click to expand...
Judging by my email inbox they're used for advertising and marketing.
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If you get email based on the passwords you use, you're doing it wrong.
 
Another problem with fltplan password security -- you can't make one more than 8 characters long, and it can't have special symbols. As far as I can tell, they aren't even case-sensitive.

I discovered this when I checked into changing mine. Here are the instructions: Your new password can be from 2 to 8 alphanumeric characters (no spaces).
 
It sucks they don't have more security, but really, it's not like you have any credit cards, bank info or anything like that on fltplan, plus they would have to also guess your user name, and mine ain't James331.
 
denverpilot said:
LOL. You know I meant that's why they even have user logins.
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They have user logins so that you can input/associate stuff like your tail number, aircraft performance data, navigation equipment code, color scheme, W&B data, etc. with your account so that you don't have to re-input/associate that data every time you want to plan a flight or file a plan. It's also handy to have a list of all your active and recent flight plans. It's just a convenience thing, from the user perspective. From their perspective, maybe they track the airports I show interest in and the plane types I file with to target the web ads they show me on their site, I dunno.

If I've ever gotten spam from flyplan.com, I've never noticed it. I have a pretty good filter that shields me from that stuff.
 
Jim_R said:
They have user logins so that you can input/associate stuff like your tail number, aircraft performance data, navigation equipment code, color scheme, W&B data, etc. with your account so that you don't have to re-input/associate that data every time you want to plan a flight or file a plan. It's also handy to have a list of all your active and recent flight plans. It's just a convenience thing, from the user perspective. From their perspective, maybe they track the airports I show interest in and the plane types I file with to target the web ads they show me on their site, I dunno.

If I've ever gotten spam from flyplan.com, I've never noticed it. I have a pretty good filter that shields me from that stuff.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of the real reason for the logins. If you're not receiving their spam you're obviously not going to get the originally intended joke, though. ;)
 
Jim_R said:
If I've ever gotten spam from flyplan.com, I've never noticed it. I have a pretty good filter that shields me from that stuff.
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I don't have any special filtering and don't receive anything I would consider spam from them. I get a newsletter periodically with information about new or upcoming features and that's about it. I think the newsletters and he website probably have ads, but that's more about expecting ads rather than noticing them. The Go! app is definitely ad-supported but I barely notice even those.

Edit: out of curiosity I checked my trash and spam folder. The twice-a-month newsletters are in Trash; nothing from them in Spam. And none of them seem to have ads for Viagra ;)
 
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