Skyhawk hold short for the 737

jspilot

jspilot

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jspilot
I went for a local flight around Long Island this Sunday. It was an uneventful flight until I returned into KISP right in the middle of the late afternoon rush. I landed, not my best, and as a result I missed my normal turn off. Turns out my bad landing actually led to something pretty cool. I got to wait for a Southwest 737 entering the parallel taxiway- man do they look big from the front! Stopped the plane and reached for the camera and got off these two shots. Followed him down the taxiway- off to sunny Florida he went and off to the Tie Down I went! Still amazed that I get to share the same sky as these beautiful planes!

Anyone else have a similar story?
 

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Not from landing, but leaving a class bravo.
Parked at the FBO, got my clearance, called ground ready to go.
"you see that big silver plane passing by? follow him to the runway".
Was an AA, the Co-Pilot was giving me the wave to follow him from the cockpit.
 
markb5900 said:
Not from landing, but leaving a class bravo.
Parked at the FBO, got my clearance, called ground ready to go.
"you see that big silver plane passing by? follow him to the runway".
Was an AA, the Co-Pilot was giving me the wave to follow him from the cockpit.
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Best taxi clearance I've received to date: "Follow the B-17 on Alpha"
 
When I was with a training captain once, we were given the taxi clearance to follow the AA B757 ahead. The captain replied, "Roger, follow the light twin."

We were in a 747.

From the cockpit perspective, there's not much difference between the 172 and the 747...one's a little wider and sits a little higher, but flying is flying. Pull to go up, push to go down, that sort of thing.

Personally, I think that flying the 172 is a lot more enjoyable, though.
 
I always feel a little uneasy with heavies too close in front or behind me, but there was this one time....a bunch of years ago, we were on short final- sandwiched between a long descending line of big guys, to the right runway, and my middle-sized son squalled from the back seat, "MOM!!! LOOK OUT THERE!!" A half-second of panic ensued, while I figured out where he was pointing. Over there! It was the supersonic Concord just about to land on the left runway. Unfortunately, I had to return my eyes to MY runway, but Son 1 was enthralled. "I saw him crank his nose down for the flare," he bragged.
 
"Holding short" of delivering my brunch, yesterday, was the wait staff at Grey Havens Inn, "j'st down th' r'd fr'm m'house" here in Georgetown.
www.greyhavens.com would be a spectacular location for a $100 Hamburger(weekend excursion).

So what does this have to do with flying and this thread? Inn owner Eve had told the pictured staff that I do aerial photography. More conversation; turns out the wait-lady's husband is a pilot for Southwest Airlines, he based in Phoenix.

HR
 

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I've had some pretty cool taxi instructions at Oshkosh - but that's the 'norm' for flying in there during the show.

I've had a couple cool in-air traffic call-outs that were memorable. One was flying over Springfield, IL. We were on top of a solid overcast and heard the controller talking to a F15 that had just departed from Springfield. I thought "Man, it'd be cool to see the F15." Every other time I've had climbing traffic called out it was "Bugsmasher 123, traffic 12 o'clock, 5 miles, climbing through 8,000", etc. This call-out was "Bugsmasher 123, traffic 12 o'clock, 5 miles, climbing high". About that time, we saw the F15 punch through the cloud deck, standing on the tailpipes - definitely 'climbing high'. That was pretty darn cool.

Next best traffic call-out was flying IMC north of Dallas in a 182. We were level at 9,000 and ATC said "Bugsmasher 123, traffic 12 o'clock, 10,000, 7 miles, DC3, opposite direction". Looked up, and we were between layers and saw a DC3 pass directly overhead 1,000 above us. That was pretty cool to see a DC3 flying in IMC.
 
Two airliners on my student solo long XC to Portland, ME, though smaller than a 737: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw4Qd-z3y0w

I've yet to be on an airliner and see something like this. If you look at the video of two 737s at midway if you were on the right side of the plane you'd totally miss it. When I am landing at bigger airports with commercial traffic I always hope someone is looking back out at me B)
 
Flying h4x0r said:
That's an everyday thing at Midway! Two of them were once holding short waiting for me to land!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8byGRsI9nE
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I'll throw a shout out to the controllers at Midway. Unless they're swamped, they've always been pretty cool with pretty much everything. My favorite is flying over the field with family/friends on our way to the site-seeing lap (midway to the pier up to bahai temple and back).

Nothing like having them warn 727s of potential wake turbulence from the ol' apache :rofl:
 
DouglasBader said:
When I was with a training captain once, we were given the taxi clearance to follow the AA B757 ahead. The captain replied, "Roger, follow the light twin."

We were in a 747.

From the cockpit perspective, there's not much difference between the 172 and the 747...one's a little wider and sits a little higher, but flying is flying. Pull to go up, push to go down, that sort of thing.

Personally, I think that flying the 172 is a lot more enjoyable, though.
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It's like showing up in nrt or fra in a 777. You'd think a 650,000lb airplane was big. Not compared to all those 747s and a few 380s!
 
Sometimes at Stewart, we would get behind a C-5 flying an approach or on the ground. Looked like a whole dark grey-green world was moving around in front of us.

We once waited to T-O on a calm drizzly night at SWF for a flight of about 8 C-130's landing in succession, when the controller cleared us to take off and warned us of wake turbulance, we asked to stand by for a few minutes just to be sure, REALLY sure.
 
At Indy one time we were taxiing and I saw a large airliner at my 90 degree taxiing. Ground told me to yield to the airliner. My reply was, Duh, yea. I didn't want sucked up into one of those engines. They just look bigger from my plane than when I am boarding one.
 
dcmoser said:
At Indy one time we were taxiing and I saw a large airliner at my 90 degree taxiing. Ground told me to yield to the airliner. My reply was, Duh, yea. I didn't want sucked up into one of those engines. They just look bigger from my plane than when I am boarding one.
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That's exactly what struck me about their size too. From the little skyhawk the 737 looks enormous!

Good stories so far!
 
I had one hold short for me. I was just landing at RDU and he held short on the taxiway. Then on the way home, I was cleared to takeoff and was asked to expedite for 3 mile traffic on final.
 
I was practicing TO/L in a Citabria at El Paso on the short parallel runway when a flight of 4 F somethings came in. The CFI I was with said ok, now watch they'll start breaking off for landing. So I was watching them and checking the landing approach back and forth when I was on very short final Bill said he'd take the controls so I could just watch them. It was pretty cool. First time I'd seen overhead breaks :). Then the guys got lost on the ramp and we taxied by them as they were getting sorted out so I got to see them up close.
 
jspilot said:
I went for a local flight around Long Island this Sunday. It was an uneventful flight until I returned into KISP right in the middle of the late afternoon rush. I landed, not my best, and as a result I missed my normal turn off. Turns out my bad landing actually led to something pretty cool. I got to wait for a Southwest 737 entering the parallel taxiway- man do they look big from the front! Stopped the plane and reached for the camera and got off these two shots. Followed him down the taxiway- off to sunny Florida he went and off to the Tie Down I went! Still amazed that I get to share the same sky as these beautiful planes!

Anyone else have a similar story?
Click to expand...

I had a heavy (747 I think) "restricted" below me after I was cleared into the class Bravo. I was told to climb 500 feet no delay, he was told to stay at 3500 feet, I was told to stay at 4000 feet, and he had to report me in sight! Most awesome day ever:



6626568827_49ae011391_z.jpg
 
It beats being restricted below the 747. That will give you a whole new appreciation for wake turbulence.
 
Looks like a 777 - two engines.
 
DouglasBader said:
It beats being restricted below the 747. That will give you a whole new appreciation for wake turbulence.
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No kidding.

I had one where I was flying in a 182 at 5500 to 7000. An airliner was descending somewhere above me (overcast). Suddenly I hear ATC tell them to stop descent, and tell me to stop climb and watch for turbulence. 30 seconds later the 757 pops up to my 11 and moving across over me; a bit after that I got a shaking like I never imagined. I was glad ATC told me to prepare for it because I'd have definitely not been ready otherwise!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
One day I will learn my airplanes.
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it's in the written portion of the PP Syllabus...the part where they have the diagrams and tell you about a light and ask you to identify which direction the plane is travelling.
 
Jaybird180 said:
it's in the written portion of the PP Syllabus...the part where they have the diagrams and tell you about a light and ask you to identify which direction the plane is travelling.
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No no no. I mean learn a 777 vs. 747. Right now I don't know all of them by heart yet.
 
2 engines on the 777 and three wheel pairs on each main gear.

4 engines on the 747, a big hump on the top at the front end, and four sets of main gear, each with four tires. The hump and the four engines are easiest to recognize.
 
Jaybird180 said:
it's in the written portion of the PP Syllabus...the part where they have the diagrams and tell you about a light and ask you to identify which direction the plane is travelling.
Click to expand...

You don't wanna know how Bob (on the phone) told me to remember which side is red light and which side is green light.

Right, Bob?
 
DouglasBader said:
4 engines on the 747, a big hump on the top at the front end, and four sets of main gear, each with four tires. The hump and the four engines are easiest to recognize.
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The hump was added so there was room for the Captain to sit on his wallet. :)
 
Jaybird180 said:
I had one hold short for me. I was just landing at RDU and he held short on the taxiway. Then on the way home, I was cleared to takeoff and was asked to expedite for 3 mile traffic on final.
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Horizon Dash-8 had to hold for me as I was coming into PUW a number of years ago. Squirrely crosswinds, wife in the right seat and two ATPs grading the landing. Nope, no pressure at all. :D
 
The hump was added so there was room for the Captain to sit on his wallet.
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The cockpit isn't nearly as big as you might think, and neither is the wallet.

The 747 actually has one of the smaller cockpits out there in a large transport category aircraft. It's much smaller than say, a 767. The cockpit was put up there to get it out of the way so the nose could be opened: the airplane was intended to compete against the C-5 for the USAF heavy lift. Many cargo verisions of the B747 are nose-loaders, with the nose swinging up past and in front of the cockpit. Putting the cockpit on top allows long cargo to be loaded through the nose. It also incudes a supernumary riding area, often sold as first class + in passegner aircraft, also referred to sometimes as "the dome" or "the hump."

A little known fact is that critical mach (the point where airflow first goes supersonic on an airframe) occurs at the back of the hump, typically about .90 M1 aircraft speed. In other words, approaching .87 to .90 mach, airflow over the back of the hump goes supersonic and one can hear a snapping and popping noise back there. Normally, nowever, the airplane is flown at .84 Mach.

My wallet is aluminum, and it rides in my flight bag. It carries no money, and the whole bag just fits next to my seat.

Back to the thread; when we used to land back at the home airport in Cessna 207's, a bunch of the other pilots would sit in lawn chairs along the side of the runway and hold up grading cards, or signs with a landing score on the sign. Silly, but something to do.
 
DouglasBader said:
The cockpit isn't nearly as big as you might think, and neither is the wallet.
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Understand. That's why they call it a joke. ;) That joke's older than I am. Or close.

And I know the line guys at UA certainly took pay cuts. And others for sure.

I wouldn't say anyone flying the 74 for them is exactly "hurting" financially, but it's not as lucrative as it once was. Kinda depends on how many wives, kids, and houses they bought over the years. ;)

Knew all that other stuff too, except for the Mach numbers. Good stuff. Fun to know.

"Flew" the -400 sim at TK a couple years ago. Mostly let the other folks from the podcast fly while I chatted with the friend who got us the access back at the instructor's console. (They were having fun dragging engine nacelles on the ground in crosswinds trying to fly it like a Cessna. ;) )

He eventually made me get in the seat and threw some of the more interesting failures at me for entertaining and educational fun though. An outboard engine V1 cut is puuuurty interesting.

Y'all got a lot of leverage with those two outboard engines way out there, I must say. Pretty impressive yaw.

He briefed me on how to respond and later I asked what'd happen if I delayed retarding the good three and/or tried to fix things with the tiller. He (of course) said, "Well try it!"

I ended up in the grass next to the runway. :) Simulator grass is hard, and holds big airplane's weight. Heh. Right...

I also learned to leave the darn rudder peddals alone in gusty crosswinds. Forgot all about the lovely rolling motion a little PIO starts up in a swept-wing jet.

"Dang, why is the nose wagging back and forth so bad?!" Between me farting with the rudder peddals and the yaw dampener fighting back, those landings were the worst. ;)

Was awfully nice of him to do the paperwork to get us in. I'd been down there years before the new building was built in the 75/76 sim, courtesy of a different friend who no longer works for UA.

DouglasBader said:
Back to the thread; when we used to land back at the home airport in Cessna 207's, a bunch of the other pilots would sit in lawn chairs along the side of the runway and hold up grading cards, or signs with a landing score on the sign. Silly, but something to do.
Click to expand...

That's one aspect missing from flying when you're based out of a busy Class D.

Comraderie like that seems common only at single-strip rural airports these days. :(
 
I've flown KISP many times for touch and goes (no landing fee) since i trained at KFRG. There was often a southwest 737 holding short for me while landing on 24. I thought it was amusing, and it must have been fun for the right side passengers who could see me puttering at 65kts on short final. A few times, if I was coming in for a right downwind for 24, there would be a jet coming in from off shore perpendicular to me.
 
Last summer I was flying my C150 into JNU (Juneau, Alaska) and was cleared to land. An Alaska Airlines 737 had to hold short will I came in at a blistering 75 mph lol. I had identified myself as a student pilot. The pilot(s) in the 737 gave me a thumbs up as I touched down in front of them.

I thought that was cool.

They're probably used to small aircraft up there though, there's a LOT of them.
 
He eventually made me get in the seat and threw some of the more interesting failures at me for entertaining and educational fun though. An outboard engine V1 cut is puuuurty interesting.

Y'all got a lot of leverage with those two outboard engines way out there, I must say. Pretty impressive yaw.

He briefed me on how to respond and later I asked what'd happen if I delayed retarding the good three and/or tried to fix things with the tiller. He (of course) said, "Well try it!"

I ended up in the grass next to the runway. :) Simulator grass is hard, and holds big airplane's weight. Heh. Right...

I also learned to leave the darn rudder peddals alone in gusty crosswinds. Forgot all about the lovely rolling motion a little PIO starts up in a swept-wing jet.
Click to expand...

The problem on the 747 is that the rudder is so large. The trick with an engine-out on takeoff is to pitch to the three-engine attitude (part of the takeoff briefing), and hold it. Make one rudder input, and hold it. If you do that, it flies fine. If you do what I did the first time I had a V1 cut in the simulator, it doesn't fly fine.

I'm a rudder person, having grown up in small tailwheel airplanes such as cubs, and I'm an ag pilot by trade. I use rudders, a lot. That's not such a good thing in the 747, and it caused massive changes, which are pitch, yaw,and roll changes. Shove the rudder over, there's a corresponding roll change, and with that a change in lift and pitch. Quite a ride. It just gets worse the more one corrects for it, and I did a lot of correcting. They had to stop the sim and start the takeoff over three times before I began to cotton on to the idea that everything going wrong was me.

What's interesting it to see someone flying the airplane, hear them comment about the rough air, and then have them let go of the controls. It all stops. The airplane flies nicely on it's own; it takes a pilot to really screw it up. I proved that.
 
"12R, cleared to land 10. Two P-51s are holding short."
 
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