Buncha vultures are rejoicing over the failure of Surf Air...
My first CFI was the Airport noise control guy for SJC and he moved on to SFO when the San Jose city government began interfering with his job and tried to force him to create "studies" that showed the noise as worse than it really was... Oh, and do it without funding!
I can only see this getting worse as the nagging ninnies form groups with "environment," "concern" or "roundtable" in their name...
My first CFI was the Airport noise control guy for SJC and he moved on to SFO when the San Jose city government began interfering with his job and tried to force him to create "studies" that showed the noise as worse than it really was... Oh, and do it without funding!
I can only see this getting worse as the nagging ninnies form groups with "environment," "concern" or "roundtable" in their name...
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Anyone who complains about airplane noise should immediately be put on a no fly/no receive list. Because if they are flying somewhere, the noise from the plane they are on is affecting someone, somewhere. Airplane noise over their house is 'bad', then it is 'bad' for everyone else, and they shouldn't be a contributor to it. Also, they shouldn't be allowed to have anything shipped to them via UPS or FedEx 1/2 day service, or Amazon, anything that might be flown in from overseas, or...
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
And it never seems to cross people's minds that the mitigation measures they want are going to shift the noise to somebody else!
The worst complaints about them were coming from the one-percenters in Menlo Park. I bet that a good percentage of Surf Air's members lived there too!
Omalley1537
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Sean
Unfortunately it probably does cross their minds, but they don’t care. The same selfish mindset that allows someone to move in near something greatly preceding them, then complain about it, is the one that doesn’t give a rip about anyone but themselves.
As far as I’m concerned, noise ordinances and complaints of noise should be abolished. The only ones who use them are whiny, miserable human beings.
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chartbundle
"We moved out to the country to be near the rolling fields and nature." "Close down the farms, they make dust and noise and smell bad."
Kenny Phillips
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I have a friend who lives in a very affluent neighborhood, near KLUK (the former home of my former plane.) We discussed this (after I presented him with some nice shots of his house from the air) and he was against a tiny commuter airline that was trying to begin operations. I told him that since he bought a house close to an airport that's been there since the 1930's (and where American Airlines, and Embry-Riddle got their starts) he should STFU. He cared not, continued to rail against the new operation (and any particularly loud plane; I don't think he likes the Avanti based there) and yet he probably flies a dozen or more times a year on commercial jets.
1RTK1
Pattern Altitude
It’s still a free country, if you don’t like it where you are MOVE and not next to me please
Edit- move as in don’t complain about the airport that has existed for 50 years and you just bought a house at the approach end.
Edit- move as in don’t complain about the airport that has existed for 50 years and you just bought a house at the approach end.
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wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
"Not in MY backyard". That says nothing about anyone else's backyard.
And it's true for a lot of things, not just airplanes and cell towers.
And it's true for a lot of things, not just airplanes and cell towers.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Oh boy yo boy yo boy I can't wait to hear sonic booms again..!!!!
Last one I heard was in '92 when a space shuttle was landing.
Last one I heard was in '92 when a space shuttle was landing.
david.h
Pre-takeoff checklist
The ONLY one I heard was March 1994, coming back into port Canaveral from a Sr year cruise. Stayed up with my GF on the boat all night hanging out on the balcony until our sunrise porting (end of cruise), knowing the shuttle would come overhead. It was an awesome double crack-crack, and then saw the silhouette of the shuttle and two T-38's coming overhead. That image is still perfect 25 years later, and the night was pretty awesome too...
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
The thing that amazes me about the complainers here in Mountain View is that the jets don't fly all that low here. My previous house was aligned with the runways at SJC and less than three miles from the threshold. The folks here don't know how good they have it in comparison.
There were several sonic booms in the Bay area and central valley back in the late sixties and early seventies. I'm guessing they were from the SR-71s out of Mather/McClellan/Beale AFB, whichever one it was where they were based...
azure
Final Approach
And in the Detroit area during the same time frame, out of nearby Selfridge. Maybe a bit earlier actually, I doubt I've heard a sonic boom since 1970.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
Tons of NIMBYs have been yammering about what they perceive, rightly and wrongly, as NextGen related changes.
The airport was there before you and I'm sure you use it. Go away, airplanes are quieter than ever.
We used to hear the sonic boom of the shuttle on reentry in Southern California, when Edwards landings were still common.
The airport was there before you and I'm sure you use it. Go away, airplanes are quieter than ever.
We used to hear the sonic boom of the shuttle on reentry in Southern California, when Edwards landings were still common.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
To be fair to the complainers, I do hear more jet traffic than than I used to for whatever reason, but it's not a constant thing, and it's certainly nothing like it was at my first house, where I had to turn up the TV in order to hear it when one would go over.
It's also true that I started noticing them more after seeing the article!
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
There are certainly more jets around. But compared to yesterday's jets, they are very quiet. The turbofan is quite the development in efficiency and sound reduction.
Hang 4
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Hang 4
There was an article in the WSJ a year or so ago on the increase in noise complaints post nextgen. The gist of the article is that approach paths end up being much tighter for commercial jets. So in the past you might have one jet go directly over your house, the next one might be half a mile away. With Nextgen, they are basically all in the exact same place. Net result is some people have a lot more noise than they used to. (Corollary is that some people now have a lot less noise than they used to, but they don't have any incentive to share that news)
Not arguing for one side or the other, but part of the overall story
Not arguing for one side or the other, but part of the overall story
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
The issue there becomes "So you chose to fly over my house, not because of safety reasons, but because you're choosing to make it MY problem?"
"I'm gonna sue!"
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
I was talking about the FAA coming up with a plan. I think the principle of sovereign immunity might apply, but if not, it seems to me that the concern you raise would apply more to the practice of routing them over consistent routes than it would if they were spread out.
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
My point is if the consistent routes were designed/chosen based on safety or efficiency, there is a logical reason why they are they way they are. "Maam, this has nothing to do with you, the route was chosen for the safety of the flying and groundbound public."
Bacho
Pre-takeoff checklist
I guess I am whiny and miserable then. It is one thing then an operation has to make a certain amount of noise and has taken many measures to reduce it. It is a totally different situation when groups or individuals create excessive noise just for their own satisfaction. I live in a house 75 yards from a 2-lane road. Cars and motorcycles go by that are loud enough to prevent normal conversation inside my own house. I would vote crap like that off the road tomorrow if I could.
Lachlan
En-Route
Why did you allow the road to be built in your front yard? Oh, it was there before you bought your house? You should have bought a house further from the main highway. No one forces anyone to by a specific house. Study hard, get good grades, get a good-paying gig and buy smart. You, after all, are your own best advocate.
When General Luck took command of the 18th Corps and fort Bragg, the first thing he did was eliminate the noise restrictions in the airfield corridors. They ran along the Southern edge of the military reservation and had eventually become lined with housing developments.
He simply stated "It's the sound of freedom!"
He simply stated "It's the sound of freedom!"
1RTK1
Pattern Altitude
Same reason for not buying a home in the country near any dairy
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Bring back big ol' radial-powered passenger airplanes and you can fly over my house anytime.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Or pig farm. Grew up about a mile from one. When the wind was out of the north...wheeeeewwwwww.
kyleb
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Thread drift (surprise!).
Are dairies *that* bad? My grandparents had cattle and horses and the smell never really amounted to much. Chicken houses (and in particular, when they clean out chicken houses) can be really odoriferous. I assume pigs are the same.
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1RTK1
Pattern Altitude
The flies are horrendous, our airport is about one mile from a dairy. If you leave your windows open in your car you will have hundreds of passengers coming home with you. I would agree that chicken houses are particularly nasty.
Don’t buy a house next to anything, airport etc., that would bother you, then want it moved or closed.
Don’t buy a house next to anything, airport etc., that would bother you, then want it moved or closed.
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
I hadn't thought about flies. Note to self...
aftCG
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aftCG
Chickens and pigs are gut wrenching compared to cattle. Still agree that if you move where there is noise/smell - get over it
Bacho
Pre-takeoff checklist
Ok, I will bite. A guy I used to know had a locomotive horn mounted in his truck. Given the right conditions it could be heard 20 miles away. Would you be ok with him blasting that thing at the end of your driveway 24/7? Thats freedom right? Does his freedom of disturbing the peace around him know no bounds? What if it had a radius of 200 miles?
bnt83
Final Approach
This crap will never end, they are building a large "upscale" apartment complex right now under the traffic pattern here, the almost solely piston pounder traffic pattern. Had they installed windows in the buildings toward the west they could easily see most of the airport from many of them
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CharlieD3
En-Route
There are ordinances against things like train horns at the end of your driveway. That said, if there are railroad tracks behind your house, and a crossing road within a mile, there will be train horns every time a train approaches the intersection. The rail was likely there before your house was...
This whole topic, to me, is like certain state voters moving out of their "paradise-like" certain state, because of high taxes, over-regulation, and a huge indigent population camping, peeing, and perpetrating otherwise unsanitary behavior on their streets; and moving to freedom loving states nearly as paradise-like but without high taxes, and stifling regulation... And then .... Voting, protesting, and insisting that their new residence become exactly like the *$&-hole they were so disgusted with...
This whole topic, to me, is like certain state voters moving out of their "paradise-like" certain state, because of high taxes, over-regulation, and a huge indigent population camping, peeing, and perpetrating otherwise unsanitary behavior on their streets; and moving to freedom loving states nearly as paradise-like but without high taxes, and stifling regulation... And then .... Voting, protesting, and insisting that their new residence become exactly like the *$&-hole they were so disgusted with...
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Lachlan
En-Route
Actually, possession (and automotive vehicle usage) of train horns is unlawful in most, if not all, states. (I have friends that have worked for a few different railroads.) Second, there are statutes nearly everywhere against disturbing the peace, with specific times during which there are ordnances governing the amount of noise one may produce.
Also, that example wouldn’t be freedom, it would be the commission of several civil violations, and possibly a felony, dep3nding upon how said train horn was obtained. Hope this helps.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
I had an interesting experience last night. I was at Palo Alto Airport (PAO) around 10:00 PM consulting a POH for a ground-review questionnaire I'm filling out. When I was putting the key away in the club's lockbox, a woman on the other side of the fence asked me if I knew anything about a plane that had just landed. After some conversation, it came out that she was upset because she felt it had flown too low over her house, and it had woken up her baby. She asked a bunch more questions about rules, etc., which I answered to the best of my ability, but there really wasn't anything I could do about it, and I told her so. A turboprop taxied nearby, and she said that it looked like the plane. It's possible that the pilot may have been doing pattern work for night currency, because I had heard what could have been the same plane taxi by earlier. Anyway, from what she said, it sounds like the pilot may not have been following the noise abatement procedure, which keeps planes on climbout from flying directly over neighborhoods. (Note to self: make sure and follow the noise abatement procedures, because they can actually have an effect on people.)
CharlieD3
En-Route
You're right, slip of the texting thumb edited to make it politi-neutral. Apologies. But, of course, you quoted me for posterity.
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
Quote removed.