Sit in your Mooney / Comanche / Grumman / Musketeer?

Pilawt said:
My A&P refuses to do the bungee work on Comanche gear. Says he found an A&P friend dead in the shop, killed by a bungee that broke loose.
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Does he also not do compression checks or run ups?
 
EdFred said:
About $40 for a pair last time I bought them including shipping. I have done it 2 years and I've done it 3 years as required by AD. Depends on my mood. Even if I did it every year, oh no...$40 per year! Such an onerous expense! That will make me quit flying!!!! The other "expensive" gear AD is 1000 hour dye pen for cracks. I have yet to talk to an A&P who has had had one fail. I'm sure they are out there, but it's way overblown on how often it occurs. The real major gear issue is the other 1000 hour inspection. Take gear apart, measure tolerances for bolts/bushings. 20ish hrs of labor according to my A&P (so for me a whopping $1.40/hr operating cost.) Yeah maybe have to replace a few bushings or bolts here or there. Still not much of an expense considering it's every 1000 hours. Even if the gear transmission craps (mine is original from what I can tell from the logs), it's a less than $500 replacement (labor not included)
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What's the labor like on the bungee replacement?

And I wouldn't be saying any of this if it was just some random thing I picked up somewhere (like, y'know, "Mooneys are small" :fingerwag:) but the place I picked up on that being a "thing" was the Comanche owners group.

I'm guessing it's somewhat like Mooney fuel tank reseals. Even in the Mooney owners groups, they make it sound like that's this big horrific thing... Maybe because even most Mooney owners haven't had one done. Then I found out what it cost, and it was far lower than my expectations based on what I had seen before, so I don't know why it's such a thing.

I'm glad to hear Comanche gear seems to be in the same boat. Thanks for the info! <goes off to look at Twin Comanches on trade-a-plane again...>
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'm guessing it's somewhat like Mooney fuel tank reseals. Even in the Mooney owners groups, they make it sound like that's this big horrific thing... Maybe because even most Mooney owners haven't had one done. Then I found out what it cost, and it was far lower than my expectations based on what I had seen before, so I don't know why it's such a thing.
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Well, it is exactly $7800 this year. Assuming a 20 year life, and 100 hours per year, that puts the cost at $3.90 per flight hour. Actual last reseal on my tanks was late 90's and way less than 2000 hours. Not too bad. Let's see the Mooney prop AD is $2.50 per hour, coincidentally combines with the Mooney swing and lube AD at $1 per hour. In essence, its a less frequent but still unwelcome noticeable in costs AD.
 
EdFred said:
Hey look, someone who hasn't owned a Comanche talking about how much the maintenance is on the gear.

Less than $2000 in 13 years. A solenoid needed to be replaced and the original cabling lasted ONLY 53 years and had to be replaced. Oh the horror!!

Still don't know how you convince yourself that the Mooney is the most comfortable single. I've been in C , E, F, J, P and they are most definitely not. You still haven't taken that tape measure to measure where it counts and report back.
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The answer is obvious. You are a different size. And shape than cheesehead.
 
Rcmutz said:
Speaking of Mooney entry and exit. I had a friend show me his technique. Passenger seat all the way forward, pilot all the way back, step into the back and then come up between the two seats. Worked for him in a C model.
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I really have trouble understanding the difficulty of entrance and exit. My first Mooney, a C, and my current F are easy to just slide across the passenger seat by stepping your feet across. I do this easily with seats in my flying position. I am 6’1”, almost two hundred pounds and almost 73 years old. Just don’t understand. I know I’m not the most flexible person I know.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I really have trouble understanding the difficulty of entrance and exit. My first Mooney, a C, and my current F are easy to just slide across the passenger seat by stepping your feet across. I do this easily with seats in my flying position. I am 6’1”, almost two hundred pounds and almost 73 years old. Just don’t understand. I know I’m not the most flexible person I know.
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Agreed. Getting out is a little more difficult, but, boy, all those access panels on the wings to remove during annual!
 
I’ve removed all the little panels more than once and I don’t see that as a big deal either.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I’ve removed all the little panels more than once and I don’t see that as a big deal either.
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Didn’t mean to imply they are difficult, but removing 24 of them will take some time. No need to go to the gym and do wrist exercises after that workout! :D
 
masloki said:
Well, it is exactly $7800 this year.
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Yikes. That's... A lot more than the last time I checked. But the way some people talk about it you'd think it was $20K.

Assuming a 20 year life
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It seems like newer ones don't need it quite that much... Might be able to go 30, 40, or even 50!

FWIW, my plane is 25.25 years old and has never been resealed. The only issue I've ever had was on a screw underneath the wing walk, repaired for under $100.

MBDiagMan said:
The answer is obvious. You are a different size. And shape than cheesehead.
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But to be fair, the 90% of the population that isn't freakishly tall will probably find the Comanche more comfortable. I've flown with Ed in his plane and it's a very nice bird. I really with Piper had continued production of the PA-24 and PA-39 past 1972. Their replacements just don't perform the same way, they were merely cheaper to build... And I really wish there were Comanches younger than me.
 
From your description of your posture needs, it sounds like a Mooney may not work for you. They low seat with legs out in front, like a sports car.

Grumman would work, they are more upright. I am Grumman biased, as I did my Private in a Tiger, back when they were still being built. With 1 person and full fuel, I used to flight plan at 132 knots and 10.2 GPH and beat both numbers. With the Sensenich prop STC, it should be around 140 knots on the same fuel flow.

And they are a hoot to fly. VERY responsive. You will probably overcontrol on your first flights.

Why do you specify full fuel, but a 250 mile range?? Even in a slower plane, 250 nm is about 2 - 2.5 hours. I am in the process of buying a Mooney, and with the power pulled back, it is a 1000 mile range on standard tanks, 1500 with long range tanks.
 
First, the Mooney tank reseal is a thing, since there are only two places that do it. Now if you live in one of those places (one is in Minnesota, the other in Florida) it isn't a thing. If you're like the other 95% of us getting your airplane there and back and getting you there and back is a thing. Oh, it's perfectly doable, you're flying a Mooney after all and they're fast. But it is an expense and drives up the repair some, and it takes your time, not the mechanic's.

I honestly think Ed is an outlier. $2k in gear expense over 13 years doesn't even cover the inspection of the gear and the emergency release mechanism at annual, no less any actual maintenance. I can claim far less in gear related expenses, but my aircraft features a Johnson bar, and there isn't that much to fix. I did blow some money on new up and down locks just because they came available at one point. I think that's been my biggest gear expense. That and flat tires.
 
Well I did incur another $420 this year on the 1000hr gear dye-pen inspection. In the next year or two is the complete disassembly of the gear system on the other 1000hr AD. But yeah, only a new solenoid and cables/tubes since I got it.
 
EdFred said:
Well I did incur another $420 this year on the 1000hr gear dye-pen inspection. In the next year or two is the complete disassembly of the gear system on the other 1000hr AD. But yeah, only a new solenoid and cables/tubes since I got it.
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Don't forget that it and your emergency gear mechanism are supposed to be inspected yearly, and I imagine there's routine maintenance on the gear. I know the Mooney gets it's preload checked, or at least its supposed to, on a yearly basis. Inspections take time, and time is money when you're paying someone.

Taking on spouse and spawn could put a dent in flying time and could decrease flying funds for awhile...
 
steingar said:
Don't forget that it and your emergency gear mechanism are supposed to be inspected yearly, and I imagine there's routine maintenance on the gear. I know the Mooney gets it's preload checked, or at least its supposed to, on a yearly basis. Inspections take time, and time is money when you're paying someone.

Taking on spouse and spawn could put a dent in flying time and could decrease flying funds for awhile...
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Part of annual inspection. And it's less than 30 minutes to do so. You think I have pencil whipped annuals?

Expendable income went up nearly $100k with the addition of spouse. She already said I should look at Twins or Lances, because she wants to go places without dealing with the airlines. Yeah, even after the weekend from hell.
 
Heck - in that case tell wife to get a second job and see what a Pilatus would go for!
 
EdFred said:
Part of annual inspection. And it's less than 30 minutes to do so. You think I have pencil whipped annuals?
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Absolutely not, I was really impressed with your Comanche when I flew in it. Mrs. Steingar was really impressed with your abilities, but we needn't fill her in on the truth...

EdFred said:
Expendable income went up nearly $100k with the addition of spouse. She already said I should look at Twins or Lances, because she wants to go places without dealing with the airlines. Yeah, even after the weekend from hell.
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Sounds like you snagged the right femme. Weekend would have been worse with the airlines. More expensive too, I think.
 
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