Single yoke Bonanzas are bada$$. What are the drawbacks?

[KeithASanford]

Please forgive my ignorance and rambling.

I'm on this kick of buying my last plane first so I've been looking(dreaming about) Bonanzas and I've come across 35 series planes with the single yoke that you can fly from either seat. They look seriously cool in an "old school" way. I also like the idea of the passenger, should there ever be one(my wife wouldn't fly with me if I were Wilbur Wright) not being bogged down with the intimidating controls in their face. Are they a maintenance problem? What are the drawbacks if any?

Also, all things equal, will any Bonanza do or are there more maintenance intensive or less performing models?

 

[poadeleted21]

Please forgive my ignorance and rambling.

I'm on this kick of buying my last plane first so I've been looking(dreaming about) Bonanzas and I've come across 35 series planes with the single yoke that you can fly from either seat. They look seriously cool in an "old school" way. I also like the idea of the passenger, should there ever be one(my wife wouldn't fly with me if I were Wilbur Wright) not being bogged down with the intimidating controls in their face. Are they a maintenance problem? What are the drawbacks if any?

Also, all things equal, will any Bonanza do or are there more maintenance intensive or less performing models?

Training is the downside. If you're done with your ratings, no issues.

I'd look for ones with a 470 in it or better.

N has the better fuel tank setup and 260 HP IO 470N. The piano keys went away with the P model. S model got a bump to the IO520.

 

[mondtster]

Training might be an issue, but if you either buy a dual yoke or can easily borrow one they can be swapped out quickly.

The single yoke and the folding rudder pedals on the right side are one of the best features of the airplane. I hate having the dual yoke in my airplane, I'll be happy once it is gone again.

I consider the early Bonanzas to be antiques and should likely be owned by someone who wants to tinker. They have some unique features that went away in the newer planes but nothing to worry much about. I'd spend more time worrying about buying the best airframe you can afford than how long ago it was made. They're all old.

 

[poadeleted20]

Training might be an issue, but if you either buy a dual yoke or can easily borrow one they can be swapped out quickly.

I'm not sure how easy it is to borrow one, but I do know it's pretty easy to swap them out (although I think it takes an A&P's signature to do that), and I think you can rent one for training if there isn't one available locally. The ABS is probably your best source for assistance in locating one.

 

[frfly172]

They do rent dual controls , the older 35 s with the piano keys ,tKe some getting used to.

 

[James331]

Yup,

I don't know a huge amount about the Bo's model by model, year by year wise, not really my cup of tea.

HOWEVER, training in them, and getting a flight review, could prove a little tricky.

I did a BFR for one guy, had he not been recommended by people I trust, and not been on his A-game for the ground and preflight, I wouldn't have even stepped in the plane.

 

[mondtster]

They do rent dual controls , the older 35 s with the piano keys ,tKe some getting used to.

If you rent the yoke I'd suggest having a plan to get your training done pretty quickly. You can easily pay for the yoke in rental fees if you screw around. I'm glad I bought one, I've used it off and on quite a bit.

I didn't think the piano key Bonanzas were any harder to use than any other airplane.

 

[docmirror]

This is a big discussion. If you provide some pointers on year or price it might help.

As for the single yoke, it's benefit is that the pax don't have them in the way. The downside is that it's hard to instruct in one. There are special endorsements that the administrator can issue for people who are well versed in the Bonanza type for single yoke instruction in some cases. Generally speaking, you can't get ab initio instruction in the single yoke, but the dual yoke is easy to install, and they are for rent from Cruisair aviation in Ramona CA. You can get your review in the single, if you have the right endorsement for the trainer.

The rest of the plane was decades ahead of it's time, but of course, the rest of the industry caught up - ala, the Mooney 201. They are robust, and fly very well. The mx isn't much worse than any other old plane, and airframe stuff just doesn't break all that often.

They do have a ramp presence all their own, and most non-aviation people will recognize and admire the V tail. Aviation knowledgeable people will fall into two categories. The haters who are sure it will break up on it's next flight, and the rest of us who know better and fly them as they are meant to be flown.

 

[James331]

This is a big discussion. If you provide some pointers on year or price it might help.

As for the single yoke, it's benefit is that the pax don't have them in the way. The downside is that it's hard to instruct in one. There are special endorsements that the administrator can issue for people who are well versed in the Bonanza type for single yoke instruction in some cases. Generally speaking, you can't get ab initio instruction in the single yoke, but the dual yoke is easy to install, and they are for rent from Cruisair aviation in Ramona CA. You can get your review in the single, if you have the right endorsement for the trainer.

The rest of the plane was decades ahead of it's time, but of course, the rest of the industry caught up - ala, the Mooney 201. They are robust, and fly very well. The mx isn't much worse than any other old plane, and airframe stuff just doesn't break all that often.

They do have a ramp presence all their own, and most non-aviation people will recognize and admire the V tail. Aviation knowledgeable people will fall into two categories. The haters who are sure it will break up on it's next flight, and the rest of us who know better and fly them as they are meant to be flown.

Then there is category three

The aviators who like the V tail, but notice they put the tailwheel on the wrong end up the damn plane, thus disqualifying it from ownership

 

[poadeleted21]

I'm not sure how easy it is to borrow one, but I do know it's pretty easy to swap them out (although I think it takes an A&P's signature to do that), and I think you can rent one for training if there isn't one available locally. The ABS is probably your best source for assistance in locating one.

Send me your single yoke first and ill loan you my dual. It's that easy. There are several places that rent dual yokes, Google will be faster and less biased than ABS.

 

[brian]]

Love mine. Worked with a BPPP (beech guru teaching me about my antique) and it went something like this:
Your not using the rudder pedals enough
...
Pedals!
...
Ol, give me the yoke.
Now fly the airplane!


No big deal. All you need is the trim wheel and a few bumps on the column. Oh and the pedals. (Yep, one of those opinionated older guys, but I needed it..)

Yes primary and likely commercial instruction would be ill advised with a single you're, but you can rent them if needed.

Consider this: 90% of my flying is alone or with a non flying family member. The other 10% is expanding my education .. Very nice not having that second yoke in the way.

Yep, sounds like you are well on the way to becoming a vtail owner. Get an abs membership and review the model types... Welcome to the club!

 

[JHW]

The throwover yoke combined with the passenger-side fold-down rudder pedals are among the best feature of the airplane.

And yes you can train with a throwover yoke. People have been doing that for quite some time.

 

[schmookeeg]

Also, all things equal, will any Bonanza do or are there more maintenance intensive or less performing models?

I didn't see it mentioned (sorry if someone did) -- but the single/throwover yoke style was discontinued on the 36 series in 1984, so you're looking at 83 and prior 36-series Bonanzas, or any of the 33/35 will have the single yoke as long as they're of that vintage. This is from memory, and it's late, so I may be forgetting a key detail.

And to second the last poster's comment -- it's not just the yoke out of the way, the passenger's rudder pedals fold flat and disconnect if desired. it's quite nice.

It's a few hours' labor for your shop to swap between single and dual yoke. Dual yokes sell for $2500 used, or the Cygnet yokes go up to about 4k with assorted options. Plus the rental option as mentioned.

The book "those incomparable bonanzas" is often on amazon for a few bucks used, and will bore you stiff with bonanza facts. Highly worth it, it's very concentrated plane porn, and pretty interesting history.

$0.02

- Mike

 

[schmookeeg]

Oh, also, if you're friends with some harley dudes, you can position the yoke straight-up in the 12-o'clock position and fly it that way -- and pretend you've got Ape-Hangars on your airplane. Even the crustiest biker should buy you a round after you tell that story.

 

[35 AoA]

Just kind of reminds me of flying with my Dad in his '55 Bo on long trips back east as a kid to visit family. After about an hour in the air, he would frequently throw over the yoke to me and engage "8 year old son autopilot". It always seemed to be somewhere over the Rockies, on a hot summer afternoon, and I remember thinking that the airplane was going to fall out of the sky while he was fiddling with it and passing the yoke over to my side (as the plane is doing it's weird bonanza V-tail dutch roll in the turbulence). Eventually learned that was not the case, and started enjoying the "yoke time". I'd say it is a cool feature that does have some functionality. I'd have to ask him the details sometime, but I don't remember it seeming to be a huge deal to install the double yoke which he also had (or maybe it was just an add on to the single?) and extend the rudder pedals.

 

[weilke]

Three ways to get a dual yoke for transition training:
- rent it
- buy it used and recoup 100%-shipping when you sell it a year later
- go on beechtalk and post 'i bought this bonanza, I am really excited and I am looking for a dual yoke to rent'. Plenty of dual yokes are sitting in peoples hangars unused, at times they can be borrowed for the cost of shipping.

We have a dual yoke permanently installed. I wouldn't mind changing it to a single, but the CFIs who are my partners prefer the dual yoke setup.

 

[JOhnH]

Stupid question time:
What is a throw over yoke?
Can it be thrown over in mid flight so a passenger can fly the plane? Or does it have to be thrown over pre-flight? Or am I thoroughly confused?

We sold our 172 and are looking to buy a Bo. But having never flown one, we would like to go up with an experienced pilot and take control to see how we like the handling. How can we do that with a single yoke if we are not endorsed in the thing yet? Do we need to go up with a CFI rather than just an experienced Bo driver?

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

V35A owner here. I'm going into my third year of ownership. The transition was very easy.

The biggest adjustment is the verticle speed. Mine climbs quickly....and doesn't come down as fast. So, verticle speed management will be the biggest adjustment in my opinion....not over shooting your landing field. First couple of flights I came up on my destination and was higher than planned. So it took a few circling patterns to lose that last couple thousand feet or three. I've switched my flight planning from a distance continuum to a time continuum....and that seems to work much better with the planning....knowing I'll be at my destination in 30 min and then calculating when to begin the let down.

Other than that, it's easy peasy to land and take-off....it's probably more horse power than most are use to.....so the right leg will be a little sore at first. That might be another bigger issue if what you're coming from is of the C-172 variety.

Seems as though the V35 "S" model and newer has the newer design features most seek. Older models will have their quirks with electric props and various engine configurations.....piano hinges on the panel...etc.

 

[brian]]

Her's my throw-over yoke. One is my normal position. The other is when my short Mooney pilot friend tags along for a ride

 

[poadeleted21]

Stupid question time:
What is a throw over yoke?
Can it be thrown over in mid flight so a passenger can fly the plane? Or does it have to be thrown over pre-flight? Or am I thoroughly confused?

We sold our 172 and are looking to buy a Bo. But having never flown one, we would like to go up with an experienced pilot and take control to see how we like the handling. How can we do that with a single yoke if we are not endorsed in the thing yet? Do we need to go up with a CFI rather than just an experienced Bo driver?

I can probably make it down to you next weekend if you want to go for a ride, I have the dual yoke.

 

[poadeleted20]

What is a throw over yoke?

Good picture above.

Can it be thrown over in mid flight so a passenger can fly the plane?

Yes. It can also be used by your instructor the same way.

Or does it have to be thrown over pre-flight?

No.

We sold our 172 and are looking to buy a Bo. But having never flown one, we would like to go up with an experienced pilot and take control to see how we like the handling. How can we do that with a single yoke if we are not endorsed in the thing yet? Do we need to go up with a CFI rather than just an experienced Bo driver?

First, not all Bonanzas have the single throwover yoke -- many (most?) have dual controls, and you shouldn't have much trouble finding one to go up and get a feel for the aircraft (see bartmc's offer directly above). Second, there is a dual yoke assembly which can be installed on a "pull-out/plug-in" basis on single throwover yoke Bonanzas (takes like 10 minutes IIRC). They can be purchased (I'm thinking something like $2500) or even rented for a few days for training purposes. Contact the American Bonanza Society for leads on where to get one.

 

[docmirror]

Stupid question time:
What is a throw over yoke?
Can it be thrown over in mid flight so a passenger can fly the plane? Or does it have to be thrown over pre-flight? Or am I thoroughly confused?

We sold our 172 and are looking to buy a Bo. But having never flown one, we would like to go up with an experienced pilot and take control to see how we like the handling. How can we do that with a single yoke if we are not endorsed in the thing yet? Do we need to go up with a CFI rather than just an experienced Bo driver?

The yoke is on an arm connected to the hub in the center of the panel, the yoke and the arm will rotate around the shaft. There is a locking pin, and four locking detents in the shaft and the yoke and arm can be repositioned at any time into one of the four detents. Pilot side low, pilot side high(breastbone area), pax side low or pax side high. It can be thrown over at any time, including in flight. Suggest that it be planned for by both people, as in 'your plane', then move the yoke over.

The "Bonanza" name has spanned some 50 years of production. Everything from the first V tail in late 1946 up to the latest G36, so you need to investigate a lot of planes. The general classifications are 1946-1956 are E series, with the E Conti engines. Not recommended for those who can't do some modest owner mx. H35, J35, K35 are the first of the 470 engines, with a few other improvements in trim. M35-P35, more weight, power and gewgaws. S35-V35B, including the turbos. 520 engine, some has turbos, more weight, more gewgaws. Model 36, A36, etc. More of everything, including a straight tail. Also, some versions of the Deboniar became the Bonanza to add to the confusion. The Deb was originally a stripped down Bonanza, at lower cost but they have become more valuable as the years went by because of the straight tail.

I would get the J35. First IO engine, blistering speed, lower gross weight so the spar AD isn't as big a factor, and with the M wing tip mod will fly like a dream. My favorite model is the J35 with the later M35 tips and a speed slope windscreen, maybe the later air snorkel in back. Can be had for $30k-$65k-ish.

<edited for clarity>

 

[JOhnH]

I can probably make it down to you next weekend if you want to go for a ride, I have the dual yoke.

Thanks,
I'll PM you.

 

[Henning]

Stupid question time:
What is a throw over yoke?
Can it be thrown over in mid flight so a passenger can fly the plane? Or does it have to be thrown over pre-flight? Or am I thoroughly confused?

We sold our 172 and are looking to buy a Bo. But having never flown one, we would like to go up with an experienced pilot and take control to see how we like the handling. How can we do that with a single yoke if we are not endorsed in the thing yet? Do we need to go up with a CFI rather than just an experienced Bo driver?

You can toss it across in flight, no worries, you just pull the latch pin and it rotates neatly around the central shaft. There is also an aileron control knob that can go in the center, you can fly the plane by those as well. You don't need to be endorsed in a Bonanza, it is a very docile, forgiving aircraft at low speeds. Read the manual, and Leslie could check herself out.

 

[JOhnH]

Thanks for that info. I have been doing quite a bit of research, and every time I learn something, I also learn there is something else I don't know.
Do you have an opinion on the N model? would the wing tip mods help there as well?
How about a '59 K model?

Thanks

The yoke is on an arm connected to the hub in the center of the panel, the yoke and the arm will rotate around the shaft. There is a locking pin, and four locking detents in the shaft and the yoke and arm can be repositioned at any time into one of the four detents. Pilot side low, pilot side high(breastbone area), pax side low or pax side high. It can be thrown over at any time, including in flight. Suggest that it be planned for by both people, as in 'your plane', then move the yoke over.

The "Bonanza" name has spanned some 50 years of production. Everything from the first V tail in late 1946 up to the latest G36, so you need to investigate a lot of planes. The general classifications are 1946-1956 are E series, with the E Conti engines. Not recommended for those who can't do some modest owner mx. H35, J35, K35 are the first of the 470 engines, with a few other improvements in trim. M35-P35, more weight, power and gewgaws. S35-V35B, including the turbos. 520 engine, some has turbos, more weight, more gewgaws. Model 36, A36, etc. More of everything, including a straight tail. Also, some versions of the Deboniar became the Bonanza to add to the confusion. The Deb was originally a stripped down Bonanza, at lower cost but they have become more valuable as the years went by because of the straight tail.

I would get the J35. First IO engine, blistering speed, lower gross weight so the spar AD isn't as big a factor, and with the M wing tip mod will fly like a dream. My favorite model is the J35 with the later M35 tips and a speed slope windscreen, maybe the later air snorkel in back. Can be had for $30k-$65k-ish.

<edited for clarity>

 

[JOhnH]

You can toss it across in flight, no worries, you just pull the latch pin and it rotates neatly around the central shaft. There is also an aileron control knob that can go in the center, you can fly the plane by those as well. You don't need to be endorsed in a Bonanza.

Not thinking about a Bo endorsement as much as a HP /Complex endorsement for Leslie.

 

[brian]]

You might get on Beech Talk, but if you are researching, you might look up the book "Those Incomparable Bonanzas" - should be copies on Amazon. If you are really seriously looking for Bos, getting an American Bonanza Society membership would be in order.

By the way - don't get too vigorous "throwing over" the yoke - I've lost the wires on the auto pilot a couple of times that way. (Should be good and secure now.)

 

[Henning]

Not thinking about a Bo endorsement as much as a HP /Complex endorsement for Leslie.

Ah, since that is not primary instruction it can be done with a throw over. There are plenty of Bonanzas out there with a dual yoke to check out. I think an N-35 with tip tanks would be good, if you can find one with the Osbourne "Dolly Parton" tanks, so much the better. The 470 has some durability advantages over the 520, most significantly the alternator mount & bearing. On the 520 you have a catastrophic engine failure, on the 470 you lose the alternator.

 

[brian]]

Ah, since that is not primary instruction it can be done with a throw over. There are plenty of Bonanzas out there with a dual yoke to check out. I think an N-35 with tip tanks would be good, if you can find one with the Osbourne "Dolly Parton" tanks, so much the better. The 470 has some durability advantages over the 520, most significantly the alternator mount & bearing. On the 520 you have a catastrophic engine failure, on the 470 you lose the alternator.

Dolly Parton tanks?! Isn't that 40 gallons a side - plus the mains?! Dude's gotta come down to pee / poo at some point!

One thing about Bonanzas: lots of options / mods have been added to the aircraft. Basically, setup what you like and grab the one that fits your wallet and "must have" list. Yea, you can get a V35B with a glass panel and a fresh TN's 520 (or better). But you are over $200k. Once you get a feel for the type, you might decide an early 35 with a 470 STC and a good panel fits the bill - and the wallet. Either way - the common wisdom (that I can confirm) is to save a little for maintenance.

 

[JOhnH]

Ah, since that is not primary instruction it can be done with a throw over. There are plenty of Bonanzas out there with a dual yoke to check out. I think an N-35 with tip tanks would be good, if you can find one with the Osbourne "Dolly Parton" tanks, so much the better. The 470 has some durability advantages over the 520, most significantly the alternator mount & bearing. On the 520 you have a catastrophic engine failure, on the 470 you lose the alternator.

If we go the N route, would the wing tip mods give the same performance improvements as the tip tanks? I know for a trans-atlantic flight the extra fuel would be nice, but that is at least a few years away and if we decide to do that, we could figure something out at the time.

I have a lead on what sounds like a nice N model, but I still have a lot to learn. I'll probably order the book Brian and Mike recommended and I have already joined Beech Talk.
Thanks all,

 

[docmirror]

Thanks for that info. I have been doing quite a bit of research, and every time I learn something, I also learn there is something else I don't know.
Do you have an opinion on the N model? would the wing tip mods help there as well?
How about a '59 K model?

Thanks

Both the K and the N are fine planes. The K model gained 50Lbs over the J model, and was the last of the round tip wing. Slightly slower due to the added weight of the plane, and the gross. I think it had a larger alt than the J model although most of them have been upgraded by now. The N model has the changed, larger wingtips that were introduced with the M35. Also has 10 more HP than prev up to 260. No real change in speed though.

Basically, Beech kept adding weight and load and compensating by making more HP along the way. The M35 tips helped keep the wing loading in line, but at the cost of higher incidence of spar web cracks. By the V35B, the gross weight was up to 3400Lbs, which was 800 increase from the original 35 with basically the same wing, plus the tip change in the M35. The tips can be retrofitted to any vintage, and will provide a bit more speed, but no book weight increase.

 

[poadeleted20]

Not thinking about a Bo endorsement as much as a HP /Complex endorsement for Leslie.

You cannot legally get 61.31 HP/complex endorsement training in a throwover yoke Bonanza. See 14 CFR 91.190(b):

(b) An airplane equipped with a single, functioning throwover control wheel that controls the elevator and ailerons, in place of fixed, dual controls may be used for flight instruction to conduct a flight review required by Sec. 61.56 of this chapter, or to obtain recent flight experience or an instrument proficiency check required by Sec. 61.57 when--
(1) The airplane is equipped with operable rudder pedals at both pilot stations;
(2) The pilot manipulating the controls is qualified to serve and serves as pilot in command during the entire flight;
(3) The instructor is current and qualified to serve as pilot in command of the airplane, meets the requirements of Sec. 61.195(b), and has logged at least 25 hours of pilot-in-command flight time in the make and model of airplane; and
(4) The pilot in command and the instructor have determined the flight can be conducted safely.

If you get a throwover yoke Bonanza, you'll have to rent one of those dual yoke attachments for her HP/complex training.

 

[JOhnH]

My apologies for hijacking this thread, but it is a good thread and I think the added conversation is appropriate to your questions as well.

Please forgive my ignorance and rambling.

I'm on this kick of buying my last plane first so I've been looking(dreaming about) Bonanzas and I've come across 35 series planes with the single yoke that you can fly from either seat. They look seriously cool in an "old school" way. I also like the idea of the passenger, should there ever be one(my wife wouldn't fly with me if I were Wilbur Wright) not being bogged down with the intimidating controls in their face. Are they a maintenance problem? What are the drawbacks if any?

Also, all things equal, will any Bonanza do or are there more maintenance intensive or less performing models?

 

[docmirror]

Tip tanks will cost you speed. Both in higher drag, and in higher weight. There was an engineer from the Navy that did a lot of calcs on it, and backed it up with flight tests back in the mid-70s, and on he settled on about 4-5 knots lost with the tip tanks empty, and slightly more with the tanks full, depending on which model of tip tank you had.

I will give my unvarnished opinion on the tips. I don't care for them. The JLO tanks are Aluminum, give 20 gal per side, and you get a gross weight bump of 150 or 200Lbs depending on plane model. The flight extenders are fiberglass and give 15 gal per side, and may or may not give a weight bump depending on model. Unless you want to fly very long distances, I just use the aux tank inside, or fly for 2.5-3 hours legs and refuel.

If a plane had them on, I would leave them, but if it didn't have them, I sure wouldn't add them. I like economy, and hauling all the gas around with the drag penalty doesn't do it for me. But - a lot of Bo owners run the planes flat-out burning 12-15GPH, so it doesn't take long to drain the 50gal tanks. Some planes have aux tanks in the wings, which is the best of both worlds.

 

[poadeleted20]

Ah, since that is not primary instruction it can be done with a throw over.

Henning is not correct. See the regulation I quoted above along with paragraph (a) of that regulation:

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft (except a manned free balloon) that is being used for flight instruction unless that aircraft has fully functioning dual controls. However, instrument flight instruction may be given in an airplane that is equipped with a single, functioning throwover control wheel that controls the elevator and ailerons, in place of fixed, dual controls, when--
(1) The instructor has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and
(2) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.

There are plenty of Bonanzas out there with a dual yoke to check out.

That is true, and as I said above, you can rent a dual-yoke attachment for the throwover assembly for those other training purposes including 61.31 HP/complex endorsement training. Remember that until one has those endorsements, one is not qualified to act as PIC of a Bonanza (well, you don't need HP for the earliest ones with 185HP but those are still complex) and thus doesn't meet the paragraph (b) requirements to receive training in a throwover yoke aircraft.

 

[Bill Watson]

I just found out that Beech Travel Airs (light twin) had the throwover yoke as well. It continues to earn a rep for not being the best place for multi-engine training.

 

[poadeleted20]

I just found out that Beech Travel Airs (light twin) had the throwover yoke as well. It continues to earn a rep for not being the best place for multi-engine training.

Many Barons do, too. I did a guy's IR training in a throwover yoke 58 Baron, and required him to obtain a dual yoke attachment for the training. Good thing I did, because the first time I pulled an engine on him under the hood, he completely lost control and I had to grab the controls before we rolled over completely.

 

[Henning]

If we go the N route, would the wing tip mods give the same performance improvements as the tip tanks? I know for a trans-atlantic flight the extra fuel would be nice, but that is at least a few years away and if we decide to do that, we could figure something out at the time.

I have a lead on what sounds like a nice N model, but I still have a lot to learn. I'll probably order the book Brian and Mike recommended and I have already joined Beech Talk.
Thanks all,

Which wingtip mods are you talking about? If you want me to look over an airplane for you, let me know.

 

[poadeleted21]

Tip tanks will cost you speed. Both in higher drag, and in higher weight. There was an engineer from the Navy that did a lot of calcs on it, and backed it up with flight tests back in the mid-70s, and on he settled on about 4-5 knots lost with the tip tanks empty, and slightly more with the tanks full, depending on which model of tip tank you had.

I will give my unvarnished opinion on the tips. I don't care for them. The JLO tanks are Aluminum, give 20 gal per side, and you get a gross weight bump of 150 or 200Lbs depending on plane model. The flight extenders are fiberglass and give 15 gal per side, and may or may not give a weight bump depending on model. Unless you want to fly very long distances, I just use the aux tank inside, or fly for 2.5-3 hours legs and refuel.

If a plane had them on, I would leave them, but if it didn't have them, I sure wouldn't add them. I like economy, and hauling all the gas around with the drag penalty doesn't do it for me. But - a lot of Bo owners run the planes flat-out burning 12-15GPH, so it doesn't take long to drain the 50gal tanks. Some planes have aux tanks in the wings, which is the best of both worlds.

My N has 2 40 gallon tanks.... No way I'd add tip tanks to it.

 

[jsstevens]

Many Barons do, too. I did a guy's IR training in a throwover yoke 58 Baron, and required him to obtain a dual yoke attachment for the training. Good thing I did, because the first time I pulled an engine on him under the hood, he completely lost control and I had to grab the controls before we rolled over completely.

Out of curiosity, would _you_ do IR training in a throw over yoke single?

Just a comfort level question...

John