Single engine planes for fiki

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by MadH, Dec 6, 2018 at 6:32 PM.

  1. MadH

    MadH Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi everyone! Looking for friendly imput. Is it possible to buy a single engine non turbin plane for under $500K to make trips from KDBQ to KSAA during the winter months. (mountains and ice). Sorry for the dumb question. will listen to suggestions
     
  2. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route

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    Fear is the poison of our lives.
    Cessna P-210N with boots and hotplate? Lotta mx though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 6:46 PM
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  3. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    Mooney Bravos,Ovation,Acclaims all can have FIKI. Can do the trip in 3-4 hours. But will limited useful load, essentially their 2 person airplanes.
     
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  4. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer Pattern Altitude

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    It may be FIKI, but I'm definitely not flying a SEP into ice on purpose.
     
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  5. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Pattern Altitude

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    Cirrus SR22
     
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  6. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Some Commander 114/115s are FIKI with TKS.
     
  7. gsengle

    gsengle Pattern Altitude

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    (Those are Mooneys for those not in the know, M20M, M20R, and M20T U and V....)


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  8. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    If that's the route you plan to fly, suggest you consider a turbo to try to get up above the major icing and most of the weather.
     
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  9. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    Btw, some planes have TKS, but are not certified FIKI.
     
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  10. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Also applies to some planes that have boots and other anti-ice provisions. Example, the Cessna 414 (yes, I know the OP said SE) with boots and alcohol windshield systems are not FIKI, the 414A with boots and electric plate are.
     
  11. Kelvin

    Kelvin En-Route

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  12. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What about a turbine 210?
     
  13. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    If you are referring to the Cessna factory know ice package, it is not legal for known ice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 12:27 PM
  14. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    How many people/how much weight?

    You can get a Mooney Bravo with FIKI TKS for significantly less than $500K. I have an Ovation, which you can also get with FIKI TKS, but if the trip to Wyoming is going to be your primary mission, turbo is probably the way to go for you. Here's one for only $175K: https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/29217847/1990-mooney-m20m-tls

    The SR22T with FIKI would be another good choice, though it's a lot harder to tell if they're FIKI - Every Mooney with TKS is FIKI, while most Cirri are not, even with TKS. Cirrus did not have a FIKI option until 2009, the ones with FIKI have a "Max" setting. Here's a nice one for $440K: https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/24891989/2009-cirrus-sr22-g3-turbo

    There's also the Piper Malibu series, though they do have quite a reputation for both engine failures and generally being maintenance hogs.

    But, more details about how much weight you need to carry, how many people, and whether those people will be willing to breathe through straws (oxygen cannulas) would be helpful to point you in the right direction.
     
  15. teejayevans

    teejayevans Pattern Altitude

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    Try reading past the subject line...
     
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  16. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route

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  17. MadH

    MadH Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks for all the comments! Im new to ifr, looking to haul 3 souls for with no gear or lugage. I do not want to fly into icing, my concern is getting getting thru some imc on take off and landing. We snowmobile by KSAA and store all are gear and sleds,truck,and inclosed trailer there.
     
  18. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    United. And a spare car in a long term lot near KDEN.
     
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  19. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Are the turbines ones not?
     
  20. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    3 including yourself, or 3 total? What's the total weight?

    And you'll still have bags with your clothes and such, right?

    Y'know, I really hate answers like this. We run an awful lot of people away from GA with this kind of crap. Give them an answer with what is actually required to meet the mission via GA, and let them decide whether they can (or want to) afford it. Not everyone has the same budget.
     
  21. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    POH Limitations for that P210N prohibits flight into know icing even though it was factory equipped with a known ice option. Same situation as most the Cirrus SR22s.

    91.9 Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements.
    (a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, markings, and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of the country of registry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 8:23 AM
  22. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    'New to IFR' with 3 people FIKI in a single into the mountains. Yeah, that's the ticket.





    Look up Luke Bucklin from Minneapolis.











    What I really hate are funerals with 4 caskets.
     
  23. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    What does FIKI have to do with flying into a mountain?
     
  24. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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  25. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route

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    Fear is the poison of our lives.
    I believe the aircraft was certificated for flight into "Icing conditions". "Known" was not part of the language. Is that what we're talking about? I'm sure Richard Collins, AVEMCO and a ton of of others would be surprised to learn that the they were flying their 210's in icing conditions not properly certificated. Is this a recent determination regarding this aircraft??
     
  26. gsengle

    gsengle Pattern Altitude

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    If ya have to ask...


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  27. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    That's a lot of airplane.
     
  28. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    In a pinch, you can even take the snowmobile along.
     
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  29. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Some of us here do everything we can to avoid the airlines. And some of us do even more than that to avoid United.

    But you wouldn't catch me single piston IMC in the mountains either.
     
  30. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    No, no, no, if you can't explain it, don't post it. That crash had nothing to do with FIKI.
     
  31. gsengle

    gsengle Pattern Altitude

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    I’m serious if you don’t know why mountains complicate dealing with ice you shouldn’t have and be trying to use that capability. Your post and my response are irrespective of any particular incident.


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  32. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    When you know nothing about icing, it has nothing to do with flying into a mountain.
     
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  33. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route

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    Fear is the poison of our lives.
    For under half a mil? You know how to shop, buddy!
     
  34. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    You know....I’m cheap like that. ;)
     
  35. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    The ice will need it....
     
  36. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    Zackly....:)
     
  37. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It had everything to do with putting yourself in a situation where you have to get three kids back to school after a weekend in the mountains. But you are probably right, it was just 'some rime icing' and the fact that he flew into an area of forecast icing had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome.
     
  38. PaulS

    PaulS Final Approach

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    Ok, just read the full account, launching yourself when the airlines are cancelling is stupid, plain and simple, got it.
     
  39. gsengle

    gsengle Pattern Altitude

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    No it’s way more complicated than that. Flying in ice is all about escape routes. Mountains take em away. I fly in known ice in unpressurized planes for a living, have my atp, and own a fiki single. I’m not afraid of ice. But I respect it and believe it’s something you have to respect and develop experience with over time.


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  40. Arbiter419

    Arbiter419 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Kelvin hit it - early Mirage or a straight Malibu. 200 true at FL200 on 21-22 gph. Pressurized, comfortable enough for the people in the back. Baggage behind the rear seats (100lbs) and unpressurized baggage up in the nose compartment. (100 lbs) It does okay enough in ice. Don't plan on climbing through anything more than light ice though, it just doesn't have enough ass to power through it when it's heavy.

    Early Malibus got a bad rep because of people flying them into thunderstorms and not operating the first IO520 correctly and the thing blowing up on them. The Mirage and forward ended up with the Lyc TIO540 which is in my opinion more tolerant of abuse. Still probably shouldn't fly into thunderstorms though.