Simplifying Engine Out Procedures

Just a student here, but wouldn't/shouldn't you first start by recalling any action you took in the last few minutes as well as establishing best glide? One POH has best glide first that you showed in the article.

But I mean no matter what, don't you want to establish best glide, and while doing that if you recall the last few things you touched or did...if it were switching tanks, leaning, turned off the aux fuel pump, or something not related to engine but that your hand was near something related to engine that could have changed a setting, be if you have the altitude, a good thing to either undo or check? Then the checklist or flow & checklist?

I liked the idea of spending time in the cockpit just going through the motions.
 
Good read.

Bob, what you're asking is pretty much covered by running the appropriate checklist. Most POHs have Amplified Procedures where the checklists are further explained. Yes, I would definitely be pitching for Best Glide, which shouldn't prevent you from performing a quick flow as the OP mentions. In the airline world we also used a flow, but we also had the first few steps memorized then checked w/ the checklist for a few things such as engine failure. And the OP is correct, combustion triangle is basically what you're trying to resolve.
 
The later A36 Bonanza checklists added the Best Glide first step. But the point is all about the combustion triangle.

Thanks for reading guys!
 
LongRoadBob said:
Just a student here, but wouldn't/shouldn't you first start by recalling any action you took in the last few minutes as well as establishing best glide? One POH has best glide first that you showed in the article.

But I mean no matter what, don't you want to establish best glide, and while doing that if you recall the last few things you touched or did...if it were switching tanks, leaning, turned off the aux fuel pump, or something not related to engine but that your hand was near something related to engine that could have changed a setting, be if you have the altitude, a good thing to either undo or check? Then the checklist or flow & checklist?

I liked the idea of spending time in the cockpit just going through the motions.
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When the engine quits, chances decrease that a pilot will correctly remember what exact thing he did several minutes ago that might have caused it. It's also unlikely that he'll fix the problem based on correct recall of all the details of the various systems that can be involved in an engine failure.

An engine failure is one of the most stressful events a pilot can undergo. It's not too unlikely that you'll go into lizard brain, and at a time like that it's nice to have memorized procedures to fall back on.

Instead of having to search your memory, organize the information, interpret what you're seeng, compare it to that stored knowledge and arrive at a solution, wouldn't it be more effective and faster to run a simple flow, then review the checklist when you have a moment?

Rehearse your emergency procedures until they are done right every time.
 
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I like what I get from @Buster1's article.

Yes, best glide and head to a landing spot first. And yes, have those "bold face" items down and a good cockpit flow. And definitely, if you have time, run the actual checklist for what you may have missed.

But my takeaway from @Buster1 is, if you take the time (now, not during the emergency) to think about the procedure, all the trouble shooting/possible restart steps involve what he refers to as the combustion triangle. Some people are good at rote memorization. For others, understanding a procedure is itself a memorization aid. (Soapbox: better than a bunch of incomprehensible mnemonics)

I recall a conversation with an instructor who noticed students had difficulty memorizing the bold items in the engine fire in flight checklist, until they finally came to the realization they all came down to shut the fuel, shut the air, and get your a$$ down. The checklist/flow suddenly became obvious, not just a bunch of steps.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I like what I get from @Buster1's article.

Yes, best glide and head to a landing spot first. And yes, have those "bold face" items down and a good cockpit flow. And definitely, if you have time, run the actual checklist for what you may have missed.

But my takeaway from @Buster1 is, if you take the time (now, not during the emergency) to think about the procedure, all the trouble shooting/possible restart steps involve what he refers to as the combustion triangle. Some people are good at rote memorization. For others, understanding a procedure is itself a memorization aid. (Soapbox: better than a bunch of incomprehensible mnemonics)

I recall a conversation with an instructor who noticed students had difficulty memorizing the bold items in the engine fire in flight checklist, until they finally came to the realization they all came down to shut the fuel, shut the air, and get your a$$ down. The checklist/flow suddenly became obvious, not just a bunch of steps.
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Yes. Knowing "why" makes all the difference. Once you do, the mnemonics become comprehensible. It's like 'the rules.' When you know the intent and they makes sense it's much easier to memorize the 'letter of the law.'
 
Bob - I learned from my instructor to troubleshoot and try a restart AFTER best glide and finding a suitable landing spot (and communicate). That's hard for a mechanically minded guy to do...I just can't help myself.
 
Yeah, you can do lots of things to try and get a restart, but those should be done after you've hit best glide speed and are on your way to your chosen landing spot. Once those things are done you can fool with the engine.
 
And then what? Unless you know why the engine stopped and have confidence it will remain running, your options are limited.
<-- Of course, I now have substantial cockpit resources.
 
1. Best glide (Aviate)
2. Pick landing spot (Navigate)
3. Cram it (firewall throttle and mixture), pull carb heat and change tanks, flip mags if time. If failed ...
4. Cage it and land (now you can Communicate)
 
denverpilot said:
Put the damned nose down first.
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Amen..

Last Friday (13th no doubt) I climbed out on short field take off. As I get to the end of the runway, as instructed by my CFI before take off, I will set flaps to 0 at about 200ft AGL and pull back on the yoke to maintain climbing at Vx
Just as I hit the flaps up switch, he reaches over and pulls the throttle at the same time I start pulling back on the yoke.
He didn't realize what he was doing at the moment (admitted later) and we sunk like a rock.
He reacted immediately and pushed the nose over. I then reacted and put the throttle back in. We both kind of wide eyed looked at each other for a second as we climbed out.
In a real event, there would be no throttle so nose over is the only suitable reaction. I would have done so, but he beat me to it readily.
Bad timing, but good lesson... and a little scary at 200ft
 
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