Silk Road creator gets life without parole.

retailguy said:
Your lack of class, empathy and common decency continue to amaze me.
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Empathy and feelings over justice are why the american empire is past its expiration date. Nothing left to do but grab a fat social justice warrior chick and frolic in the ruins.
 
The gov't gave him a warning and he was operating the site under a pseudonym and thought that they couldn't catch him. So the gov't shut the site down. He opened it back up. They warned him again. Then finally arrested him (and others).

bartmc said:
It was just drugs and fake ids. Along with some legitimate art etc..
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First of all, "just drugs"??? But also, that's not true. It had sections for almost anything illegal you can think of, including mercenaries for hire.

And his sentence was based on him having hired people to kill others. He was not charged for that, but it was taken into consideration, and based on his statements he does not dispute that. IIRC, he spent a few million on those hires and thought they'd been carried out, not knowing it was a sting.

You don't often get two warnings before the cuffs go on. I'm not sure how or why he was given the warnings, but he gets no sympathy from me. He'll spend the rest of his life behind bars only because of his arrogance.

The funny thing is that after he was arrested and the site shut down the second time, some of his accomplices who weren't caught opened up a third site. Now they're behind bars.
 
Why isn't Craig in jail? All sorts of dirty deeds done off craigslist. I'm sure craigslist needs the dirty market side to remain viable.
 
How can anyone be sufficiently intelligent to set up such an enterprise and simultaneously insufficiently intelligent to not evacuate himself and his bit coins to a non-extradition country when things go south?
 
Gerhardt said:
The gov't gave him a warning and he was operating the site under a pseudonym and thought that they couldn't catch him. So the gov't shut the site down. He opened it back up. They warned him again. Then finally arrested him (and others).



First of all, "just drugs"??? But also, that's not true. It had sections for almost anything illegal you can think of, including mercenaries for hire.

And his sentence was based on him having hired people to kill others. He was not charged for that, but it was taken into consideration, and based on his statements he does not dispute that. IIRC, he spent a few million on those hires and thought they'd been carried out, not knowing it was a sting.

You don't often get two warnings before the cuffs go on. I'm not sure how or why he was given the warnings, but he gets no sympathy from me. He'll spend the rest of his life behind bars only because of his arrogance.

The funny thing is that after he was arrested and the site shut down the second time, some of his accomplices who weren't caught opened up a third site. Now they're behind bars.
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Well, no. Per wikipedia.

wikipedia said:
In March 2013, the site had 10,000 products for sale by vendors, 70% of which were drugs.[19][57] In October 2014, there were 13,756 listings for drugs, grouped under the headings stimulants, psychedelics, prescription, precursors, other, opioids, ecstasy, dissociatives, cannabis and steroids/PEDs.[8][17][58][59] Fake driver's licenses were also offered for sale.[60] The site's terms of service prohibited the sale of certain items.[17] This included child pornography, stolen credit cards, assassinations, and weapons of any type; other darknet markets such as Black Market Reloaded gained user notoriety because they were not as restrictive on these items as the Silk Road incarnations were.
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And if his sentence was because he tried to hire people to kill other people. Well, it should be vacated because that was not what he was on trial for.
 
steingar said:
How can anyone be sufficiently intelligent to set up such an enterprise and simultaneously insufficiently intelligent to not evacuate himself and his bit coins to a non-extradition country when things go south?
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Arrogance, simple habit perhaps. On the other hand a lot of big dirty players are in with law enforcement, until all of a sudden they aren't.
 
bartmc said:
Well, no. Per wikipedia.



And if his sentence was because he tried to hire people to kill other people. Well, it should be vacated because that was not what he was on trial for.
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No, his sentence was because a jury found him guilty of the crimes he was on trial for. And his sentence was within sentencing guidelines. I'm scratching my head at why this guy has so many defenders around here. I guess it's similar to how Manson got a 26 year-old to marry him. Must be something some people find attractive about a guy in prison.
 
Gerhardt said:
No, his sentence was because a jury found him guilty of the crimes he was on trial for. And his sentence was within sentencing guidelines. I'm scratching my head at why this guy has so many defenders around here. I guess it's similar to how Manson got a 26 year-old to marry him. Must be something some people find attractive about a guy in prison.
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Because people seem to have the facts incorrect. And it's a bad bad bad precedent. Life without parole for running a website????

Gerhardt said:
First of all, "just drugs"??? But also, that's not true. It had sections for almost anything illegal you can think of, including mercenaries for hire.
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Incorrect. as was pointed out. This was not allowed on the site. It was mostly drugs, some fake id's and some other stuff that wasn't illegal. i.e. stuff you can get in pretty much anywhere in any town/city in America.

And his sentence was based on him having hired people to kill others. He was not charged for that, but it was taken into consideration, and based on his statements he does not dispute that.
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Then the sentence should be thrown out. He wasn't on trial for muder for hire. Also, the FBI agents involved were corrupt and that wasn't allowed to be brought up in court.

IIRC, he spent a few million on those hires and thought they'd been carried out, not knowing it was a sting.

You don't often get two warnings before the cuffs go on. I'm not sure how or why he was given the warnings, but he gets no sympathy from me. He'll spend the rest of his life behind bars only because of his arrogance.

The funny thing is that after he was arrested and the site shut down the second time, some of his accomplices who weren't caught opened up a third site. Now they're behind bars.
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Gerhardt said:
No, his sentence was because a jury found him guilty of the crimes he was on trial for. And his sentence was within sentencing guidelines. I'm scratching my head at why this guy has so many defenders around here. I guess it's similar to how Manson got a 26 year-old to marry him. Must be something some people find attractive about a guy in prison.
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I don't know that it's so much a matter of defending "him" rather than it's a matter of governmental intrusion in to private matters. Yes, there are criminal elements to it, but I find the level of governmental control more disturbing than I find the drug and hit man schemes doing on within it.
 
Gerhardt said:
No, his sentence was because a jury found him guilty of the crimes he was on trial for. And his sentence was within sentencing guidelines. I'm scratching my head at why this guy has so many defenders around here. I guess it's similar to how Manson got a 26 year-old to marry him. Must be something some people find attractive about a guy in prison.
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Yeah, we're all hung up on this guy's cult of personality - sure, that's it. Has nothing to do with the justice system's overreach, criminalizing every behavior outside of drive to work, work, drive home, watch Amer Idle, and order pizza from Domino's.

That's gotta be it. We're all taken in by this one dudes idea of utopia that juuuuuuuust doesn't fit the proletariat mold. Good lesson for the whack-a-mole contingent. Think outside the box, and you will be crushed. :rolleyes:
 
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If there is already online market places like Craigslist and eBay, why do Americans need a "Silk Road"? :dunno:
 
docmirror said:
Yeah, we're all hung up on this guy's cult of personality - sure, that's it. Has nothing to do with the justice system's overreach, criminalizing ever behavior outside of drive to work, work, drive home, watch Amer Idle, and order pizza from Domino's.
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Here now! This is 'murica! We have choices. We can get pizza from Domino's, Pizza Hut, Papa Johns, or Pudge Brothers or we can go the frozen pizza route. Remembeer that 'murica is land of the free!
 
I am all about pushing back against government over reach, But you gotta pick your battles better. Using this guy as your poster child is about the same as the ones using Michael Brown, you lose credibility when you hook your wagon to the wrong horse. There are enough examples of uncle sugar completely trumping up charges, pick that cause. This guy got what he deserved.
 
There are really only two things to debate here. Whether he is guilty, and whether his sentence was just.

Hell, I'm the first around here to think the government over-reaches and intrudes where it doesn't belong. And yes, I think there are a lot of laws that shouldn't actually be laws. But so many people saying "gee, going to jail just for running a website?" is just playing games. You and I both know it wasn't just for running a legitmate site.

A jury of his peers thought he was guilty.

His sentence was within the sentencing guidelines.

When I read the first couple of articles I also thought the sentence was incredibly harsh. But not after reading more in-depth. I haven't read anything about the murder-for-hire charges being dropped - as far as I know they're still pending in Maryland. I did read that he hasn't gone to trial yet because there were huge problems with the cops involved. For some of you, that's all the information you need - he didn't do it. I'm taking the same approach I did with the OJ trial. Even though there was no conviction I still think he did it. Only in this case there's a lot more evidence that the guy is guilty of murder-for-hire.

The fact that corrupt cops stole bitcoins shouldn't give this guy a free pass. It should certainly throw out ALL evidence submitted by the corrupt cops - but not the entire case.

This guy is an arrogant prick who was warned multiple times to shut it down, but instead thought he was bullet-proof. He broke the law, he was caught, and he'll be punished within the confines of the law. If you don't like the law, work to change it. But I don't get all the sentiment thinking he was done wrong. He wasn't.
 
Gerhardt said:
There are really only two things to debate here. Whether he is guilty, and whether his sentence was just.
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Respectfully disagree.

Before we even get to trial and sentencing there is the little matter of is the law just? Thousands of people went to jail during prohibition, was that a just law? One could prevaricate and say: When it was the law of the land, it was just. When it was repealed it was no longer just. I can understand that mindset, that a law is a law when it's on the books.

Which leads to, how many unjust laws are on the books and being enforced right now in this country? It troubles me that so few people on this board have had any involvement with the wrong side of the 'law' to see how unjust jurisprudence is in the US. Basically, it comes down to; if 'they' want to get you, they will find a way, any way to indict you and either get you to squirm and make a deal, or pay big money to go to court for your trial and sentence.

If you think I'm off base, revisit the Ray Rice crap, and then go read about 3 felonies per day.
 
What is with the gov warning bit? Something so dangerous he is doing life in prison, but hey cauze they are nice and polite the gov asked him twice to turn it off? That and the dirty cop associates stinks like a bigger story.
 
Gerhardt said:
I'm scratching my head at why this guy has so many defenders around here. I guess it's similar to how Manson got a 26 year-old to marry him. Must be something some people find attractive about a guy in prison.
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Ad hominem squared.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Empathy and feelings over justice are why the american empire is past its expiration date. Nothing left to do but grab a fat social justice warrior chick and frolic in the ruins.
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I don't have empathy over justice, rather, I have empathy for a fellow member who lost his son. No matter the reason.
 
docmirror said:
If you think I'm off base, revisit the Ray Rice crap
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I understand the point you're making towards "social justice" and the war of the internet, but not towards the justice system.

Comparing these two cases make no sense at all. This guy got life without parole, Ray Rice got his charges dropped after a diversion program.

Was Ray Rice convicted by the media? Yes
Was Ray Rice convicted by Twitter users? Yes.
Is Ray Rice being blackballed by the NFL? Probably
Is Ray Rice over the hill and no longer a valuable asset? Maybe
Is Ray Rice a head case and not worth the media attention? Yes.

Other than this, I don't know how you compare the two. I have not clicked your link and don't plan to. I agree with the premis that there are too many felonies and too many laws. But they exist.

Surely you are not saying that Ray Rice shouldn't face some punishment by the law for knocking his wife out in an elevator? I really don't get the rest of this, but am certain you'll enlighten me.

Personally, I think the Ray Rice analogy fits my points better than yours. But I'm certain I'm wrong about that.:wink2:
 
retailguy said:
I understand the point you're making towards "social justice" and the war of the internet, but not towards the justice system.

Comparing these two cases make no sense at all. This guy got life without parole, Ray Rice got his charges dropped after a diversion program.

Was Ray Rice convicted by the media? Yes
Was Ray Rice convicted by Twitter users? Yes.
Is Ray Rice being blackballed by the NFL? Probably
Is Ray Rice over the hill and no longer a valuable asset? Maybe
Is Ray Rice a head case and not worth the media attention? Yes.

Other than this, I don't know how you compare the two. I have not clicked your link and don't plan to. I agree with the premis that there are too many felonies and too many laws. But they exist.

Surely you are not saying that Ray Rice shouldn't face some punishment by the law for knocking his wife out in an elevator? I really don't get the rest of this, but am certain you'll enlighten me.

Personally, I think the Ray Rice analogy fits my points better than yours. But I'm certain I'm wrong about that.:wink2:
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I don't think a damn thing should have happened to ray rice unless his wife wanted to press charges.
 
Gerhardt said:
There are really only two things to debate here. Whether he is guilty, and whether his sentence was just.

Hell, I'm the first around here to think the government over-reaches and intrudes where it doesn't belong. And yes, I think there are a lot of laws that shouldn't actually be laws. But so many people saying "gee, going to jail just for running a website?" is just playing games. You and I both know it wasn't just for running a legitmate site.

A jury of his peers thought he was guilty.

His sentence was within the sentencing guidelines.

When I read the first couple of articles I also thought the sentence was incredibly harsh. But not after reading more in-depth. I haven't read anything about the murder-for-hire charges being dropped - as far as I know they're still pending in Maryland. I did read that he hasn't gone to trial yet because there were huge problems with the cops involved. For some of you, that's all the information you need - he didn't do it. I'm taking the same approach I did with the OJ trial. Even though there was no conviction I still think he did it. Only in this case there's a lot more evidence that the guy is guilty of murder-for-hire.

The fact that corrupt cops stole bitcoins shouldn't give this guy a free pass. It should certainly throw out ALL evidence submitted by the corrupt cops - but not the entire case.

This guy is an arrogant prick who was warned multiple times to shut it down, but instead thought he was bullet-proof. He broke the law, he was caught, and he'll be punished within the confines of the law. If you don't like the law, work to change it. But I don't get all the sentiment thinking he was done wrong. He wasn't.
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If your first sentence is correct, then this discussion is over. He was convicted by a jury of his peers. The judge sentenced within sentencing guidelines. Those facts are indisputable.

But that seems to have conjured up all kinds of feelings related to government overreach, and overreaction and all kinds of other things I don't understand. It's really quite unbelievable.

Like you, I've read everything I can get my hands on about this guy. He is no boy scout, that's for sure.

I find it hilarious that the people who are talking about government overreach, are also talking about finding and holding the sellers on silk road responsible. These are the same people in the spin zone talking about "wasteful government spending" and "high taxes". How much money do they think it will take to find these sellers? Why it doesn't make sense to take the site down hard, is a mystery to me. Seems to me that you prevent the sellers from selling (in this way only), and establish that the risks of trying this are pretty high.

I guess some of these guys think the site should be allowed to continue?:dunno: Why, I have no idea, but that's the only thing I can come up with.

Maybe there is new job for the Nigerians? Lord knows that is the only safe haven to try this....:idea:
 
bartmc said:
I don't think a damn thing should have happened to ray rice unless his wife wanted to press charges.
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Well, on that I disagree with you. I don't think we should let people condone and accept a beating, but I also don't think social media should have crucified him either.

Personally, I think the complaints with Ray are outside of the Government. I think he was treated pretty darn fairly by them, but certainly not by the NFL or the internet as a whole.
 
retailguy said:
I understand the point you're making towards "social justice" and the war of the internet, but not towards the justice system.

Comparing these two cases make no sense at all. This guy got life without parole, Ray Rice got his charges dropped after a diversion program.

Was Ray Rice convicted by the media? Yes
Was Ray Rice convicted by Twitter users? Yes.
Is Ray Rice being blackballed by the NFL? Probably
Is Ray Rice over the hill and no longer a valuable asset? Maybe
Is Ray Rice a head case and not worth the media attention? Yes.

Other than this, I don't know how you compare the two. I have not clicked your link and don't plan to. I agree with the premis that there are too many felonies and too many laws. But they exist.

Surely you are not saying that Ray Rice shouldn't face some punishment by the law for knocking his wife out in an elevator? I really don't get the rest of this, but am certain you'll enlighten me.

Personally, I think the Ray Rice analogy fits my points better than yours. But I'm certain I'm wrong about that.:wink2:
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No, you really don't. When jurisprudence is arbitrary and capricious might as well give up. I don't care what happened to Rice in the media, all I care about is that he beat the living shyte out of someone, and spent a few days in jail, and is now out. The Silk Road guy started a website the feds didn't like much and he'll never see another free day.

If you want to be obtuse and 'not see', go right ahead. You think there are too many laws/felonies and your reaction is - 'oh well'. :nono:

That's an easy POV when no one has ever falsely accused you, or targeted you for investigation. It'll never come home to roost until then.
 
The more I think about this the more amazing it becomes. He received a life sentence for the first offense of a non-violent crime. I bet armed robbers and murderers get off lighter. I personally know one who did.
 
steingar said:
The more I think about this the more amazing it becomes. He received a life sentence for the first offense of a non-violent crime. I bet armed robbers and murderers get off lighter. I personally know one who did.
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No, his first conviction of a crime. Do you also think Madoff's sentence was amazing? Because it was his first conviction of a non-violent crime too.
 
Life in prison for facilitating the transfer of information. Sounds legit.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Life in prison for facilitating the transfer of information. Sounds legit.
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Don't forget, also making obscene butt loads of money doing it. Profiteering off of human misery and then not paying taxes on that money has never been popular with courts.
 
Gerhardt said:
No, his first conviction of a crime. Do you also think Madoff's sentence was amazing? Because it was his first conviction of a non-violent crime too.
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Madoff got off easier. The only reason his sentence is a life sentence is because he's so old.
 
docmirror said:
No, you really don't. When jurisprudence is arbitrary and capricious might as well give up. I don't care what happened to Rice in the media, all I care about is that he beat the living shyte out of someone, and spent a few days in jail, and is now out. The Silk Road guy started a website the feds didn't like much and he'll never see another free day.

If you want to be obtuse and 'not see', go right ahead. You think there are too many laws/felonies and your reaction is - 'oh well'. :nono:

That's an easy POV when no one has ever falsely accused you, or targeted you for investigation. It'll never come home to roost until then.
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Ok, so Rice got off easy and this guy got it too tough. Ok, I can see that. I have zero heartburn with life for this jerk, but yeah, Rice got off too easy.

Look you can say I'm obtuse because I don't agree with you, I don't particularly care, but saying my reaction is "oh well", is a bit presumptuous. The reality is that the laws exist, even though you think they shouldn't. Love to hear your plan for rolling them back. My view is that the battle is over. If you want to sit here and just whine about it, go ahead, you want to do something, I'm in. Meanwhile, I'm going to evaluate the laws and follow them so I'm not sharing a cell with either Ray Rice or this guy.

You really shouldn't assume things that you think you "know". Just a couple of weeks ago you chastised me because I didn't think you'd have the same viewpoint if you had medical issues as you do. So why are you any different? You don't know anything about me. You'd do yourself justice to remember that. Let's just say I'm a quick learner, and I learn from others too.
 
azure said:
Just another case of no quarter no mercy in the Holy War On Drugs. That said, if he did indeed attempt to commission 5 murders then I don't have a lot of sympathy for him.
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I agree w bart, there is a specific charge for that. Its called attempted murder, and I don't see where he was charged with attempted murder. Many people actually charged with real murder do not even get life w/o parole. People who actually pulled the trigger, strangled, knifed or bludgeoned to death another person.

I haven't been following this or anything, but his sentence seems absurd. It sounds like judge judy got her panties in a wad.
 
Is it just me or does any crime that involves a computer or the internet automatically come with an outrageous sentence?
 
dell30rb said:
I agree w bart, there is a specific charge for that. Its called attempted murder, and I don't see where he was charged with attempted murder. Many people actually charged with real murder do not even get life w/o parole. People who actually pulled the trigger, strangled, knifed or bludgeoned to death another person.
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I agree completely, and said as much more than once in this thread. When I said I wouldn't have sympathy for him IF he were guilty of ordering a murder, I meant exactly that and nothing more. Since he wasn't charged with that crime, I don't think a judge should have the latitude to consider evidence that suggests that he did it.
 
retailguy said:
You really shouldn't assume things that you think you "know". Just a couple of weeks ago you chastised me because I didn't think you'd have the same viewpoint if you had medical issues as you do. So why are you any different? You don't know anything about me. You'd do yourself justice to remember that. Let's just say I'm a quick learner, and I learn from others too.
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;) You went there?

Your sauce -- it is very weak. I guess you get to puff up and say 'neener, neener' or some such. I'd wager good money the worst you've ever seen is a parking ticket from the HPD. :yes:
 
docmirror said:
;) You went there?

Your sauce -- it is very weak. I guess you get to puff up and say 'neener, neener' or some such. I'd wager good money the worst you've ever seen is a parking ticket from the HPD. :yes:
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I now understand the intelligence level I'm talking with. Duly noted. Oh, and you'd be wrong in your assertion.
 
cowman said:
Is it just me or does any crime that involves a computer or the internet automatically come with an outrageous sentence?
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There's one computer-crime in particular that I don't get - it always surprises me that the penalties are so severe. Don't get me wrong, I think they're scum and it's a terrible crime. But I don't understand why the penalty is so severe. I'd understand a few years for it, but 20-40 years...???

And that's all I'm going to say about that.
 
Gerhardt said:
There's one computer-crime in particular that I don't get - it always surprises me that the penalties are so severe. Don't get me wrong, I think they're scum and it's a terrible crime. But I don't understand why the penalty is so severe. I'd understand a few years for it, but 20-40 years...???

And that's all I'm going to say about that.
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If it is what I think, a door kicking cop told me stories said those guys are either feeble consumers or total pyscho predators. And they can't tell in advance, so warrants are served full swat style expecting booby traps and all sorts of crazy. Both are permanently broken humans so jail is a fine place for them.
 
RJM62 said:
Ummm... Madoff got 150 years. That would be pretty tough on a young guy, too.

Rich
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I stand corrected. Hey, the Silk Road guy didn't even rip anyone off. He neither sold nor distributed contraband products. He enabled all this stuff, but that's it. I bet hardened drug dealers get lighter sentences. Like I said, I personally know a murderer running around legally free who got a lighter sentence that that guy.

I hope his lawyers appeal on the grounds of cruel and unusual punishment.
 
steingar said:
I stand corrected. Hey, the Silk Road guy didn't even rip anyone off. He neither sold nor distributed contraband products. He enabled all this stuff, but that's it. I bet hardened drug dealers get lighter sentences. Like I said, I personally know a murderer running around legally free who got a lighter sentence that that guy.

I hope his lawyers appeal on the grounds of cruel and unusual punishment.
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If being sentenced to jail was either cruel or unusual...

Just because some idiot judge let murderers off easy doesn't mean we should lighten our stance on other criminals. Toughen the stance on killers instead.
 
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