Signature waives fees...

Signature is always in the business to make money and charges an extraordinary amount of fees at almost all of their locations. I paid $38 at MMU just to touch their ramp for 5 minutes. I was picking up one of our pilots at work so the company paid for it but still a rip off.
 
I paid a fee once at Signature in Jax, Florida. It could have been waived if I purchased the fuel, but with the price differential, I actually came out ahead by not buying their overpriced fuel.

It's also the only time I've been at a Signature FBO with my own airplane since they pioneered the ramp fee back in the 90's.
 
i don't think i'll ever forget my 10 minutes on the ramp at Signature in St. Louis. I think it was $120. I thought they were trying to charge me for someones gas.
 
I won't use Signature. I flew into KAPA to see a B-17 that was giving rides there. I could have driven the ten minutes there, but decided to fly because I thought it would be cool to be in the pattern with a 17, and I could park the Tiger on the same ramp, and get closer for some photos. The 17 was using Signature, so that is where I parked. The second I shut down, a line guy came running out to get a fee (I forget the amt, but maybe $10). I told him I'd only be there a minute to get a few photos, and then leave. He wouldn't hear of it. Either pay the fee or get out. So I left. I have no problem paying a fee if I get a service, but the way I was handled was very rude.
 
denverpilot said:
For AOPA members. For one whole month.

http://m.aopa.org/aircraft/articles...ng-fees-for-aopa-members.html?WT.mc_id=ebrief

Why should I care again that their bizjet traffic is down and suddenly they don't want to be elitist snobs with no sense of aviation community, after decades of running me off with high prices?

Go die somewhere Signature. Seriously.
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Yeah pretty much that. :yeahthat:

At KORD the manager at Signature has waived all fees for any USCG Aux aircraft that flies in. That was pretty nice of him. The Signature manager at KPWK will charge the USCG Aux $40 for a 10 minute stop to pick up and drop off crew.

Also at KSTL the Signature service there was cheaper than the other FBO on the field. When I was there a snow storm moved in and Signature moved my plane inside at no additional charge.

Still they are not my first choice. At KCGX aka Meigs they charged me a lot even though I was parked outside their door I still had to pay for and use their van service to get to my plane. No walking on the ramp per their policy.
 
denverpilot said:
For AOPA members. For one whole month.

http://m.aopa.org/aircraft/articles...ng-fees-for-aopa-members.html?WT.mc_id=ebrief

Why should I care again that their bizjet traffic is down and suddenly they don't want to be elitist snobs with no sense of aviation community, after decades of running me off with high prices?

Go die somewhere Signature. Seriously.
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Exactly....who cares about waiving the fees....their GAS prices alone make most folks avoid them if at all possible.
 
Anthony said:
I won't use Signature. I flew into KAPA to see a B-17 that was giving rides there. I could have driven the ten minutes there, but decided to fly because I thought it would be cool to be in the pattern with a 17, and I could park the Tiger on the same ramp, and get closer for some photos. The 17 was using Signature, so that is where I parked. The second I shut down, a line guy came running out to get a fee (I forget the amt, but maybe $10). I told him I'd only be there a minute to get a few photos, and then leave. He wouldn't hear of it. Either pay the fee or get out. So I left. I have no problem paying a fee if I get a service, but the way I was handled was very rude.
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Tony

The B-17 is an annual event. If you decide to fly down to APA, next time tell them you're with the EAA chapter that's one of the hosts of the event.
Afterall, you *are* a member of EAA & chapter 301, aren't you?
 
They waived their fees for Angel Flight drop-offs at APA multiple times for me. A couple of times I did get the line guy at the window almost before the prop stopped moving, tho.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Exactly....who cares about waiving the fees....their GAS prices alone make most folks avoid them if at all possible.
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You can often avoid their gas price by not filling up there, you can't escape their rip-off ramp fees.
 
I've had mixed results with Signature. Service was always good, but fees were high. I normally park a week at Charleston Executive when I go on vacation. What I found is if you purchase over 100 gallons of gas and use other services, they adjust some pricing and charges. It wasn't too bad.
If you just park and don't use services, they are expensive.
Just have to weigh it all.
We also got a rental car elsewhere. Enterprise at Signature was steep. Got a better car for Avis for less.

Best,

Dave
 
weilke said:
You can often avoid their gas price by not filling up there, you can't escape their rip-off ramp fees.
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Actually, it's one or the other with the minimum amount of fuel you need to purchase to waive the ramp fee based on aircraft size. For example the minimum fuel purchase to waive the handling fee at KAPA is apparently less than 10 gallons for a C172. Of course as people have mentioned the fuel price is high. If you really want to know what the fees are going to be, use the "calculate my fuel price" link.

https://www.signatureflight.com/Locations/Pages/fbo.aspx?Loc=APA

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Everskyward said:
Actually, it's one or the other with the minimum amount of fuel you need to purchase to waive the ramp fee based on aircraft size.
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I know.

If I land at a publicly funded airport and I dont use any of the FBOs facilities and services, I dont want to pay anything.
 
weilke said:
I know.

If I land at a publicly funded airport and I dont use any of the FBOs facilities and services, I dont want to pay anything.
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Then don't go to the FBO. They are a private business even if the airport is publicly funded. If they are charging to use their ramp they have probably leased it from whoever operates or owns the airport.
 
Everskyward said:
Then don't go to the FBO. They are a private business even if the airport is publicly funded. If they are charging to use their ramp they have probably leased it from whoever operates or owns the airport.
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Some FBOs have a monopoly on the field and the only way in or out is through their doors. That's not a public use airport.
 
EdFred said:
Some FBOs have a monopoly on the field and the only way in or out is through their doors. That's not a public use airport.
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Would it be better if the airport authority operated the FBO? Some do and a number of those, especially at bigger airports, are not free either. "Public use" does not equal "free".
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Signature is always in the business to make money and charges an extraordinary amount of fees at almost all of their locations. I paid $38 at MMU just to touch their ramp for 5 minutes. I was picking up one of our pilots at work so the company paid for it but still a rip off.
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Um, some of those prime airport spots really do cost a lot to maintain. I think they're trying to maintain their longevity... I think a LOT of businessmen pilots would be shocked if they looked at the actual profit margins of many FBO's. I worked for one...
We all complain (I do as much as the next guy) about the cost, but then we also whine about what we get paid. You can't have both.
When I worked for another small aviation business at a GA reliever airport, I think we figured that we needed to make $600/month for our small ramp of about 12 spots just to break even. We were renting those spots to some locals for tie-downs, and did OK.
Figure in line guys, safety regulations, city management that thinks they should raise your rent every so often, and nice rental cars, and you suddenly have a very expensive business. You get what you pay for.

Ryan
 
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RyanShort1 said:
Um, some of those prime airport spots really do cost a lot to maintain. I think they're trying to maintain their longevity... I think a LOT of businessmen pilots would be shocked if they looked at the actual profit margins of many FBO's. I worked for one...
We all complain (I do as much as the next guy) about the cost, but then we also whine about what we get paid. You can't have both.

Ryan
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I see many FBOs that manage to stay in business while not charging ridiculous ramp fees. It can easily be done - and those are the ones I support with my money.

When FBOs start charging ramp fees they aren't doing it in the interest of long term profits. They are simply sending a message that they don't want the average GA flyer clogging up their operations. They want corporate or charter traffic that won't care about the fee. But that is quite short-sighted.

The FBO here does not charge ramp fees. They don't even charge an overnight fee. Their fuel isn't *cheap* but people do buy it. They keep the doors open.

I once had a Signature guy pounding on my window, about two feet from the prop that was still turning 1000 RPM. He wanted to inform me that there was going to be a ramp fee. That ****ed me off.
 
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Everskyward said:
Then don't go to the FBO. They are a private business even if the airport is publicly funded. If they are charging to use their ramp they have probably leased it from whoever operates or owns the airport.
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And that is a problem in and by itself if the airport sponsor takes AIP money to build taxiways and ramp space and then leases it out to a private enterprise which then charges the people who already paid for it to use it.
 
Notice how fast Hangar10, the new FBO at Kansas City Downtown "took off" with a Siganture owned Executive Beechcraft across the field....The first time I parked a Bonanza there I didn't know Exec Beech had changed hands to Signature...$65 "facility fee" to park for 4 hours.....I hope Hangar 10 breaks it off in there a$$
 
weilke said:
And that is a problem in and by itself if the airport sponsor takes AIP money to build taxiways and ramp space and then leases it out to a private enterprise.
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I guess the other option would be government-run FBOs.
 
Everskyward said:
I guess the other option would be government-run FBOs.
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No. The other option is to charge for actual products and services provided rather than holding transient aircraft hostage because the local airport authority gave you a letter of marque to do so.

I have no problem to pay a premium price for fuel if someone pumps it for me. I have no issues with paying for overnight tiedown if it is not me who has to dig the ropes out of a yucky hole in the ramp. You want 'handling', you can pay for it. However, if you taxi onto a spot on the ramp to drop someone off, fire back up 5 minutes later without requiring any FBO services, you shouldn't have to pay.
 
Unfortunately SIGNATURE is a mixed bag. Often it depends if they have competition at the field or not. They made a big thing a while back about abandoning ramp fees but they quickly brought them back.

I got reamed on a quick stop in Charlottesville from a ignorant twit at the desk who held up my departure because she had no clue what gouge to apply to a Navion which wasn't on her price list. Finally settled on the Bonanza price at my suggestion and it was still cheaper to pay the "lack of competition" fee than to buy their overpriced gas. BWI applied an excessive gouge that I couldn't waive because I couldn't burn enough fuel to take on their minimum. On the other hand, signature at Dulles treated me nice the last time few times I was there (it's a coin toss of them versus Landmark these days). Chicago was expensive all around, but the service was reasonable.
 
weilke said:
However, if you taxi onto a spot on the ramp to drop someone off, fire back up 5 minutes later without requiring any FBO services, you shouldn't have to pay.
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I agree, however that is their business decision and you are free to go to another FBO or another airport.
 
Everskyward said:
I agree, however that is their business decision and you are free to go to another FBO or another airport.
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I'll gladly go to the other end of the airport with the FBO in a Quonset and a worn out couch in the office rather than granite floors and individually baked cookies.

But why should I go to another airport ? I already paid for this one.
 
weilke said:
No. The other option is to charge for actual products and services provided
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You mean, like utilizing the land that the FBO has to pay the airport rent on? Land ain't free...FBOs have to pay significant amounts, especially at bigger airports, just for the space upon which you park. Why shouldn't they pass that cost on to those who use it?
 
JeffDG said:
You mean, like utilizing the land that the FBO has to pay the airport rent on? Land ain't free...FBOs have to pay significant amounts, especially at bigger airports, just for the space upon which you park. Why shouldn't they pass that cost on to those who use it?
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I'll gladly drop passengers off on the runway if the airport prefers it that way.
 
weilke said:
But why should I go to another airport ? I already paid for this one.
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You have? You might have contributed something towards it but that doesn't mean you necessarily get to use it with no extra charge. Wait until you land somewhere that charges both an airport fee (which goes to the airport authority or whoever owns/operates it) and a facility fee (which goes to the FBO).
 
Everskyward said:
I guess the other option would be government-run FBOs.
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Man, try "Global Select" at Sugar Land (KSGR) - they are city-owned, and I have a hard time imagining a much better customer experience. Very helpful, on a ramp full of big jets, they still treat piston guys like us like gold (and I mean, really well, not just synthetic-nice), and the fuel prices are very fair.

---

Back on-topic:

I have used Signature only at Austin (KAUS), and while their gas prices are very high, they have always been good service, and have always waived the ramp fee. YMMV, obviously.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Um, some of those prime airport spots really do cost a lot to maintain.
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That is true, but there is a big difference between the airport charging a fee that the FBO collects and the FBO charging a fee on its own.

Signature sticks it to people no matter where they are located.
 
I think the most obnoxious I've ever incurred, including several class B airports, was at Palm Springs. Same thing; dropping passenger. You had to shut down...period. Pay or put in fuel before you could leave. They ran out to the plane, helped the pac out and stuck there head in to tell my I HAD to go into the FBO to pay.

I see now you have wonderful choices between Atlantic and Signature.

Best,

Dave
 
SCCutler said:
Man, try "Global Select" at Sugar Land (KSGR) - they are city-owned, and I have a hard time imagining a much better customer experience. Very helpful, on a ramp full of big jets, they still treat piston guys like us like gold (and I mean, really well, not just synthetic-nice), and the fuel prices are very fair.
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+1

Best experience I've had at an airport, and I was in a flaking paint, worn out interior '68 Cherokee 180. Fuel cheaper than any other pump it yourself field in the area too.
 
denverpilot said:
For AOPA members. For one whole month.

http://m.aopa.org/aircraft/articles...ng-fees-for-aopa-members.html?WT.mc_id=ebrief

Why should I care again that their bizjet traffic is down and suddenly they don't want to be elitist snobs with no sense of aviation community, after decades of running me off with high prices?

Go die somewhere Signature. Seriously.
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Negotiate with them. I stopped at Signature in LEX on my way home from OSH. They told me their prices at the counter, I said "No, you've gotta be able to do better than $7.50 a gallon and $125 (or thereabouts, I forget exactly but it added up to ridiculous). That is is just plain wrong and you know it." So since it's the weekend the gal at the desk calls her manager and I go have a smoke. When I return the fuel price is $5.75 and there are no fees. I have done similarly at other Signatures across the country. I'm very polite about it, but I am firm that their policy will not stand, and they negotiate to a reasonable rate.
 
SCCutler said:
Man, try "Global Select" at Sugar Land (KSGR) - they are city-owned, and I have a hard time imagining a much better customer experience. Very helpful, on a ramp full of big jets, they still treat piston guys like us like gold (and I mean, really well, not just synthetic-nice), and the fuel prices are very fair.

---

Back on-topic:

I have used Signature only at Austin (KAUS), and while their gas prices are very high, they have always been good service, and have always waived the ramp fee. YMMV, obviously.
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Another good small stop with great service is McNab (?) Alabama. Pretty central, single runway with good length and favorable terrain. Little old shack type terminal/FBO which is City owned. One guy runs it. Tells you, "Y'all come in any time, we're open 24hrs. If I'm not here just call at any time and I'll be here in 5 minutes." Had good fuel prices and quick and easy in and out. Lies right along the route between Atlanta and Corona Ca.
 
I've actually had FBOs change prices based on fuel and how I treated line staff. They unpacked the plane and packed the rental car and got a nice tip and I put in a lot of fuel; list prices suddenly dropped.

Best,

Dave
 
I was knee deep in retarded problems at work today and missed all the fun in this thread.

I didn't explain that it was Twombly the Younger who posted that link I started the thread with to Twitter, as if AOPA was super-excited about this one-month offer from Signature.

I hadn't had a chance yet to express my disdain for our giant pilot's association who only apparently has enough clout to negotiate a single month of reasonable ramp rates.

Perhaps I shouldn't get started on how impotent they are for such a huge organization... that'll only get my blood pressure up. :(
 
Yep.:yes:

Henning said:
Negotiate with them. I stopped at Signature in LEX on my way home from OSH. They told me their prices at the counter, I said "No, you've gotta be able to do better than $7.50 a gallon and $125 (or thereabouts, I forget exactly but it added up to ridiculous). That is is just plain wrong and you know it." So since it's the weekend the gal at the desk calls her manager and I go have a smoke. When I return the fuel price is $5.75 and there are no fees. I have done similarly at other Signatures across the country. I'm very polite about it, but I am firm that their policy will not stand, and they negotiate to a reasonable rate.
Click to expand...
 
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