Should I pursue a flight career with a DUI

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Not overhyped if your the judge, the highway patrol, or mother of the child you killed. The trooper sees it all the time on the highway. The dead couple, the crying drunk saying he didn't mean it, (" he's just so sorry") the girl in the sports car with the top of her head sliced off when a drunk hit her and the hood came thu the windshield like a knife. The judge has heard all the story's and is not impressed. The stupid thinking that "it's overhyped" is no longer believed nor is DUI being used as a money maker believed. The facts and history are very easily researched which is why it's no longer very bright to get a load on and drive. The police could care less if your from Yale, or jail, your ass is going to the slammer!
 
Unregistered said:
Not overhyped if your the judge, the highway patrol, or mother of the child you killed. The trooper sees it all the time on the highway. The dead couple, the crying drunk saying he didn't mean it, (" he's just so sorry") the girl in the sports car with the top of her head sliced off when a drunk hit her and the hood came thu the windshield like a knife. The judge has heard all the story's and is not impressed. The stupid thinking that "it's overhyped" is no longer believed nor is DUI being used as a money maker believed. The facts and history are very easily researched which is why it's no longer very bright to get a load on and drive. The police could care less if your from Yale, or jail, your ass is going to the slammer!
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Stow it


Dude, aside from my current profession in aviation, I've also worn the EMS hat.

You think DUIs kill lol, try being stupid or fat or over medicated, self medicated with illegal prescription drugs, I've seen WAY more of those folks die and kill people then "DUIs"

DUI = hype and money

I've seen burglars, thugs, sex offenders and armend morons get off easier then some guy driving just fine who got busted at a "check point" with a .08.
 
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Unregistered said:
You have the last word clown.
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I told you my background and opinion

So tell me what authority / experience is your opinion coming from, you watch a MADD commercial on your iPhone or knew a guy that knew a guy?
 
dell30rb said:
I would prefer hiring someone with a DUI in the past to getting sued for an EEOC violation. I'd much rather pay a salary or two for a year than get hit with a lawsuit that could cost millions and give my company tons of negative PR.
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People with criminal records are not protected classes on EEO issues. A company (in most places in the country) is 100% allowed to inquire and search for convictions and to reject applicants solely on that basis.
 
flyingron said:
People with criminal records are not protected classes on EEO issues. A company (in most places in the country) is 100% allowed to inquire and search for convictions and to reject applicants solely on that basis.
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Better check on that...EEOC now says:
An employer’s use of an individual’s criminal history in making employment decisions may, in some instances, violate the prohibition against employment discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as amended.
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http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/arrest_conviction.cfm
 
Did you actually read that guidance rather than just popping the introductory paragraph?

Conviction records are not discriminatory unless the convictions are disproportionately apply to a protected class (i.e., the implication is the convictions are being used for an excuse to not hire a protected class).

It also states that any relationship that is validated against the specific job, is not a civil rights issue. Not only, is DUI pretty much validated as such for pilots, even commercial truckers have similar issues. If we're not going to let alcoholics drive trucks, why hire them as pilots?
 
flyingron said:
Did you actually read that guidance rather than just popping the introductory paragraph?

Conviction records are not discriminatory unless the convictions are disproportionately apply to a protected class (i.e., the implication is the convictions are being used for an excuse to not hire a protected class).

It also states that any relationship that is validated against the specific job, is not a civil rights issue. Not only, is DUI pretty much validated as such for pilots, even commercial truckers have similar issues. If we're not going to let alcoholics drive trucks, why hire them as pilots?
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I was responding to you when you said "A company is 100% allowed to inquire and search for convictions and to reject applicants solely on that basis."

That's not true. If you don't have a basis, the EEOC now says that you can't do criminal background checks on your employees. I'm not relating directly to DUI or anything like that.
 
JeffDG said:
That's not true. If you don't have a basis, the EEOC now says that you can't do criminal background checks on your employees. I'm not relating directly to DUI or anything like that.
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Pre-employment they very much can, as long as it's uniformly applied.

California is one of the few states that has severe restrictions on what you can ask about (there are a few others with some qualification, if you've ever seen a multi-state job application, you'll generally find these "If you are a resident of California, Wisconsin, etc..." The EEOC pretty much says as long as you're not discriminatory on how you apply it (i.e., you can't just run background checks on people of middle eastern background or based on religion) or you aren't using these decisions as a ruse to dodge the restrictions on prejudice against the protected classes, you can.

Besides, nothing is going to keep a protected class member who was declined a hire from arguing bias in the hiring process no matter WHAT you do.
 
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Airline pilot application forms can and usually do ask if you have been convicted of any crime, many ask specifically about DUI. You'll have to report it on every FAA medical until the end of time.

So you won't be able to hide your DUI.

The regionals are really hurting for pilots already, and their situation is only going to get worse. I strongly suspect that if you keep your nose squeaky clean from now on, and are able to attain the new experience requirements needed to fly at a regional you'll still be able to get a job at a regional.

Ron is correct, if you turn in an application to a major airline with a DUI you probably won't get called. UNLESS you have very strong recommendation letters from pilots already working at that major.

So here would be my suggested game plan for you: Plan your training and early entry level employment in such a way as to quality as a regional airline pilot as soon as you can.

Plan on flying at your regional for several years longer than your non-DUI peers. Be sure to network with as many pilots as you can, you want as many strong letters of recommendation as possible.

Don't limit yourself to airlines, take a look at government flying jobs also.

There are no guarantees, but you still have a chance at grabbing the brass ring.
 
ChitDisturber said:
I told you my background and opinion

So tell me what authority / experience is your opinion coming from, you watch a MADD commercial on your iPhone or knew a guy that knew a guy?
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I usually stay away from the "internet tough guy" routine, but my guess is that our anonymous friend knows someone, or had a family member killed by a drunk driver.

But, I'm certain that your anecdotal evidence is correct and it's all about money. It has nothing to do with someones father, mother, sister, brother or cousin who is no longer alive because some idiot couldn't take a cab. It's way overblown as long as it isn't your family member.:rolleyes2:
 
retailguy said:
It has nothing to do with someones father, mother, sister, brother or cousin who is no longer alive because some idiot couldn't take a cab. It's way overblown as long as it isn't your family member.:rolleyes2:
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Holy crap. I just realized all those dumbasses that die in GA airplanes are somebodies family member. We need to ban GA right now. No it isn't different because pilots are mostly sober, people's mommies still die in little airplanes. The horror the horror.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Holy crap. I just realized all those dumbasses that die in GA airplanes are somebodies family member. We need to ban GA right now. No it isn't different because pilots are mostly sober, people's mommies still die in little airplanes. The horror the horror.
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Yep

If it's really for "the children" why does all that DUI money, fees, class, seized cars, etc go to the PD and gov't??

Shouldn't 98% of it go to a fund for the victims of drunk driving :dunno:


Few facts about the profit in DUIs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hytkAaoF2k
 
ClimbnSink said:
Holy crap. I just realized all those dumbasses that die in GA airplanes are somebodies family member. We need to ban GA right now. No it isn't different because pilots are mostly sober, people's mommies still die in little airplanes. The horror the horror.
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Wow. You really just compared the legal enjoyment of a hobby with irresponsibly breaking the law. You two enjoy talking to one another...:nonod:
 
retailguy said:
Wow. You really just compared the legal enjoyment of a hobby with irresponsibly breaking the law. You two enjoy talking to one another...:nonod:
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Both of which kill innocent nonparticipating mommies. Just because it is legal to accidentally crash a GA airplane into a school bus doesn't make it morally superior to accidentally crashing into a school bus while drunk driving.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Both of which kill innocent nonparticipating mommies. Just because it is legal to accidentally crash a GA airplane into a school bus doesn't make it morally superior to accidentally crashing into a school bus while drunk driving.
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Except the latter kills more than the former by orders of magnitude. That is a fundamental difference in my view. The problem is the latter is also more popular an activity than the former; ergo hypocrisy abounds.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Except the latter kills more than the former by orders of magnitude. That is a fundamental difference in my view. The problem is the latter is also more popular an activity than the former; ergo hypocrisy abounds.
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Hey. this was fought out in Congress in the 90s. This is the way it is.
There are NO heavier drinkers than long-time Congressmen and Senators. A great example would be the 'Tipster O'neill.
 
Ted Kennedy would not be a bad example. Baaaad drunk! Killed mary Jo kopekne. The figures for death by drunk driver are very easy to research. It really isn't even an arguement.
 
I should add here that I posted a lengthy tome on my background in alcoholic problems that the site administrator chose not to post. Strange as it was very factual and informative.
 
OP>

I just wanted to give my two cents on this subject. First of all good for you for going for your goals and not giving up! Second, there is a new paradigm in recent years regarding DUI's and government power and control in general at all levels, I believe. The government is becoming more and more intrusive into all of our lives, in all aspects...NSA, TSA, more swat teams now than ever before, all time high levels of regulations and taxes, DUI checkpoints that ignore our fourth amendment right etc., also there is a zero tolerance attitude lately about drinking and driving. 20 years ago it was assumed, by the .08 limit, that there is an "acceptable" amount of intoxication that you can have while driving, now....not the case!

The .08 limit is an arbitrary limit set by congress, it used to be .10. The thing is everybody's body is different and and reacts differently to alcohol, just because you register a .08, as I did, doesn't mean you are incapable of operating a vehicle safely. On the other hand there are people that shouldn't operate a vehicle even after a .02 level because the alcohol affects their body in a more extreme way. Some people shouldn't operate a car even sober! LOL! I see it everyday on the road! In fact there are way more people being killed and injured now because of texting and driving! Way more distracting than if you had a few beers and actually are watching the road!

I recently got a DUI, first time I have had any arrest or been in any trouble in my life! I had a few drinks with dinner over a couple hours of time, assessed myself before I decided to drive back to the hotel, and I was walking fine, talking fine, and I could focus on everything very well! I didn't feel drunk at all! It wasn't like I was saying "screw everyone else on the road!", I honestly felt completely fine. I was in a unfamiliar city and my GPS was re-routing me, and I thought I was in a double left turn lane, when it was actually a single left turn lane. When the light turned green to turn, I did, and a cop pulled me over for an inappropriate left turn. He was a total A-hole and you could tell he was one of those guys that was on a power trip. In my opinion it is mostly about the $$$ the city can bring in. It is a cash cow!

Lastly I wanted to say, I am an air traffic controller and I can tell you that working for the FAA and having a DUI or multiple even, is not a problem and you can easily make 130K+ a year as a controller. You are working for the Federal government and you get a 20 year retirement in some cases. I know of several controllers and supervisors that have DUI's and still work, no problem, you just report it on your medical. Trust me, it is a stressful job, and after work, these guys like to have a few drinks! I know of a guy that just got hired with 3 DUI's.

I would consider the FAA as a controller if you are under 31 years old. It is way more stable than the airlines and you make great money, talk to pilots all day and you get a solid pension!
 
P.S> Just wanted to add that if you decide to become a controller, you can still fly for fun! I work with plenty of pilots, some that own their own planes.
 
Is this a great country or what? Have a *few* drinks, work for the govt, make the big bucks, retire with full pension. Phase Two: show up to work buzzed and get promoted.
 
Unregistered said:
OP>The government is becoming more and more intrusive into all of our lives, [...] all time high levels of [...] taxes
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tax_rate_vs_1998-769104.jpg
 
Ron Levy said:
Dream all you want, let your reach exceed your grasp, etc, etc. However, if as the director of that aviation program I led on a prospective student with such a record and then upon graduation that student found that record to be an impenetrable barrier to a job as an airline pilot, the university would have been sued and lost, and I'd have lost my job. And that would not have been the first time that all happened to someone in that position. So, while you can do what you anonymously please, when it comes to advice to someone with that record, I'll keep my advice based on reality, not wishing and hoping.
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Don't let Ron discourage you, he is a professional CFi and nothing more lol. He is the biggest nancy naysayer on this site. We have a pilot flying with us (united) who has gotten a DUI 8 yrs ago prior to being hired.
 
Why not google birds of a feather aa, then go to one of their meetings and ask your question? That way you will obtain the info directly from those who know? Much better than Internet hot air.
 
I would say it is a safe bet to say that most adults who drink alcohol have at some point drove over the limit...it is a lot easier to do than you realize! And as I said before, some people, not all, can function perfect with a BAC of .08. Not everybody is built the same.

I would say there are a lot of hypocrites that act like they haven't broke the law in their life, but they have. How many of them text and drive, or eat a burger and drive....or drive while sleepy! All of those things are illegal too!
 
Unregistered said:
I would say it is a safe bet to say that most adults who drink alcohol have at some point drove over the limit...it is a lot easier to do than you realize! And as I said before, some people, not all, can function perfect with a BAC of .08. Not everybody is built the same.
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This is utterly delusional. No one, and I do mean no one, can withstand cognitive degradation to some degree with that level of ethanol in their bloodstream. Will that degradation be physiologically noticeable? Driving in a straight line in familiar territory in daylight, possibly not. Driving at night in the rain in unfamiliar territory? Probably so.

Sorry, but this carbon based unit does not drink and drive. I drink, I'm done driving for the day, period. I get 2 DUIs and I'm done flying. Best way to not get two DUIs is to not get one. Besides, I'm mostly on motorcycles, and I have to be sharper than Odin himself on the roads today because of guys like "oh, I'm OK after a couple drinks, really!". I don't like to think about how many tried to murder me last month.
 
Little overly dramatic

Also .08 doesn't mean you're drunk or not, it just means the govt can make money off you now, if they happen to pull you over for anything.
 
Being that this thread was resurrected and OP Elmo is likely gone for good (last visit 11/13), any words of encouragement will fall on deaf ears.
 
steingar said:
This is utterly delusional. No one, and I do mean no one, can withstand cognitive degradation to some degree with that level of ethanol in their bloodstream. Will that degradation be physiologically noticeable? Driving in a straight line in familiar territory in daylight, possibly not. Driving at night in the rain in unfamiliar territory? Probably so.

Sorry, but this carbon based unit does not drink and drive. I drink, I'm done driving for the day, period. I get 2 DUIs and I'm done flying. Best way to not get two DUIs is to not get one. Besides, I'm mostly on motorcycles, and I have to be sharper than Odin himself on the roads today because of guys like "oh, I'm OK after a couple drinks, really!". I don't like to think about how many tried to murder me last month.
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That is B.S., at .08 a 200 lb guy could be barely feeling anything close to a buzz and perform the very dexterous tasks...it all depends on metabolism and such! Granted, some "carbon based lifeforms" can't handle even the most basic, non mentally taxing tasks even sober, for example simple driving to the store and obeying traffic laws...so for some, .08 would mean they are stumbling down the sidewalk. Next time you are driving, pay attention to the person in front of you driving and watch them for a good five minutes...I can almost guarantee you that they will either cross a line, not use a turn signal, fail to make a complete stop at a stop sign, speed, drive too slow, be putting make up on while driving, be texting while driving...pretty much not paying attention 100%! Now if that ain't "cognitive degradation" and lack of situational awareness...I don't know what is!!

I would be more worried about the sober a-holes that don't look before they change lanes, don't use turn signals or the soccer mom in the mini van that forgot you had the right of way at the four way stop!
 
Unregistered said:
That is B.S., at .08 a 200 lb guy could be barely feeling anything close to a buzz and perform the very dexterous tasks...it all depends on metabolism and such!
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Complete BS devoid of anything physiological. At 0.08 a 100 lb guy and a 100 lb guy it is the exact same. The only physiological difference is one may sober up more quickly.

Unregistered said:
Granted, some "carbon based lifeforms" can't handle even the most basic, non mentally taxing tasks even sober, for example simple driving to the store and obeying traffic laws...so for some, .08 would mean they are stumbling down the sidewalk.
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The real difference is alcoholics don't notice the impairment because they are inured to it. Those of us who don't drink professional notice quite a bit.

Unregistered said:
Next time you are driving, pay attention to the person in front of you driving and watch them for a good five minutes...I can almost guarantee you that they will either cross a line, not use a turn signal, fail to make a complete stop at a stop sign, speed, drive too slow, be putting make up on while driving, be texting while driving...pretty much not paying attention 100%! Now if that ain't "cognitive degradation" and lack of situational awareness...I don't know what is!!
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I am in complete agreement, and I think for several of these an LEO will pull them over and charge them with something even if they have to be a bit creative in doing so. The difference is the distraction can put down the distraction, the inebriated cannot.

Unregistered said:
I would be more worried about the sober a-holes that don't look before they change lanes, don't use turn signals or the soccer mom in the mini van that forgot you had the right of way at the four way stop!
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Folks like this try and murder me all the time. They are the reason I ride a sport bike and no longer recommend motorcycles to anyone. But to rationalize your alcohol abuse, denial of such, and dangerous driving attitude is rationalization at best. I just hope you live far from me and that they catch you before you hurt someone like me. Based on your posts I believe you are in active denial and have a serious problem.
 
Unregistered said:
Little overly dramatic

Also .08 doesn't mean you're drunk or not, it just means the govt can make money off you now, if they happen to pull you over for anything.
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Quick and simple way to avoid the govt making money off you: don't drink and drive. Pretty tough for them to get you at .00
 
steingar said:
Complete BS devoid of anything physiological. At 0.08 a 100 lb guy and a 100 lb guy it is the exact same. The only physiological difference is one may sober up more quickly.
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This is absolute crap, of course .08 BAC is .08 BAC in any pound person, but the alcohol affects everybody's body and mind differently and it doesn't matter if you drink regularly or not, it has to do with a persons individual physiology... .08 does not affect everybody or impair everybody to the same exact degree with regards to being able to perform a task well. .08 used to be .10 until congress voted to change it, so it is an arbitrary number.


steingar said:
The real difference is alcoholics don't notice the impairment because they are inured to it. Those of us who don't drink professional notice quite a bit.
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That is true if a person drinks a lot regularly they build a "tolerance" to the effects, however, .08, the legal limit, can be reached very easily by ANYONE with just a couple of drinks and without a person feeling to much of an affect. This can be deceptive and unless a person has a scientific BAC meter at hand, they may think they are under .08 and thus legal to drive.

steingar said:
I am in complete agreement, and I think for several of these an LEO will pull them over and charge them with something even if they have to be a bit creative in doing so. The difference is the distraction can put down the distraction, the inebriated cannot.
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You "think a LEO will pull them over" HA! I just watched a minivan run a red light yesterday with two motorcycle cops stopped at the light heading the opposite direction...all they did was look and then look at each other and proceeded to do NOTHING! LOL! Yes, a person like I described COULD put the distraction down, but good luck with that! A jackass taking his/her eyes off the road completely for several seconds to check their text messages is way more dangerous, in my opinion, than the driver that had 2-3 drinks but is paying full attention to the road!


steingar said:
Folks like this try and murder me all the time. They are the reason I ride a sport bike and no longer recommend motorcycles to anyone. But to rationalize your alcohol abuse, denial of such, and dangerous driving attitude is rationalization at best. I just hope you live far from me and that they catch you before you hurt someone like me. Based on your posts I believe you are in active denial and have a serious problem.
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I wouldn't ride any motorcycle on the road the way most people drive! People don't see me in my 2,000 lb vehicle!

I am not "rationalizing" anything, I probably eat healthier and am in better shape and have more self discipline than your fat ass! I go to the gym and lift 5 days a week and run 3 miles, 3 days a week...eat chicken, broccoli, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, tuna, etc. religiously on a daily basis with only one cheat day a week where I can eat or drink anything. I am 39, 195 lbs, and 12.5% body fat! My wife and I stopped drinking before our wedding a few years ago for three months, hitting the gym 5-6 days a week for a couple of hours a day! I wouldn't be in that good of shape or have that much discipline if I had a drinking problem! What about you!? How big is your fat belly from eating McDonalds 7 days a week? LOL!
 
JeffDG said:
No need for that. If you think that they're just doing it for the $, deny the, their prize.

And, no, not everyone who drinks has driven over the limit.
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Very, true...it's just that the paradigm has shifted since say 20 years ago when it was "acceptable" to go out and have a couple of drinks and then drive home as long as you "felt fine". Now the limit should be .00, since that is how they are starting to enforce it. But if they dropped the limit to .00, the bar and restaurant industry would be up in arms! Next time you go out, watch the table next to you and I bet if there are four people there, all four will have drinks in hand! I see it all the time.

You are right, the way to handle it now is just stay home if you are going to drink and don't give them their prize!

I am not saying EVERYBODY who drinks has driven over the limit, but I am saying it is well over 50% probably because it is so easy to reach that .08 limit and not realize it.
 
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