Should I pursue a flight career with a DUI

[elmo22]

I have wanted to become an airline pilot for as long as I can remember, its the only thing I feel extremely passionate about. I made a terribly stupid mistake five years ago when I was convicted of a misdemeanor DUI. I served probation and took a few classes and haven't had any issues since. I wont even drink the wine at church and drive afterward anymore. I received a bachelors degree and graduated suma cum laude with a 4.0 GPA. My question is, will my DUI hinder my chance of someday flying with a major airline? Should I give up on my dream or go for it?

 

[bbchien]

Nope. Don't give up the dream. Just NEVER touch another drop of alcohol. If it was 5 years ago and a day ago, and you can show you have been clean since then (negative Driver's License search), get the court paperwork, you might be issuable on the first go.

Even if it's 5 years and a day ago, you need the court records so theAME can make sure you don't meet any of the deferral criteria.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...m/ame/guide/app_process/app_history/item18/v/


ONE DUI provided you were NOT in the >.20 range can still be issued if your SAE evaluation is negative. So, if you were in the 0.15 to 0.20 range, you need an Substance Abuse Counselor evaluation. If you were in the <0.15 range, the DL search alone will do.

NOTE: if you failed to blow, you are in the >.15 range by default; look up in the yellow pages under "alcohol counselors" and find a someone with a "CADC" after his name, it costs about $180 where I live, and send me an e-mail with a real addy so I can send you the FAA format sheet (FAA doesn't like the usual State court format).

 

[RJM62]

I have wanted to become an airline pilot for as long as I can remember, its the only thing I feel extremely passionate about. I made a terribly stupid mistake five years ago when I was convicted of a misdemeanor DUI. I served probation and took a few classes and haven't had any issues since. I wont even drink the wine at church and drive afterward anymore. I received a bachelors degree and graduated suma cum laude with a 4.0 GPA. My question is, will my DUI hinder my chance of someday flying with a major airline? Should I give up on my dream or go for it?

That is indeed refreshing: someone who takes full responsibility. It's becoming an uncommon thing these days.

Best of luck to you, my friend.

-Rich

 

[elmo22]

Thank you for the encouragement!

 

[ajstoner21]

That is indeed refreshing: someone who takes full responsibility. It's becoming an uncommon thing these days.

Best of luck to you, my friend.

-Rich

I agree, good luck! Seems its usually someone trying to blame "the system thats out to get them".

Keep us updated!

 

[marcoseddi]

You can get over any hurdle if its truly something you want, have your ever watched the movie "Rudy" hahah

 

[flyingmoose]

You will have to explain it of course, but you will still be able to get a job. Listen to Doc Bruce.

 

[elmo22]

Just wanted to post an update, I was able to get my first class medical after the medical and substance abuse evaluation. I got my private and instrument ratings on 10/21 and my multi engine rating this week. Thanks for all of the encouragement and especially to Dr. Bruce for extra guidance, it was much appreciated. I've still got a long way to go but so far so good!

 

[AggieMike88]

Thanks for the update on your progress!

I wish you the best of luck for your future!!

 

[Anymouse]

Just wanted to post an update, I was able to get my first class medical after the medical and substance abuse evaluation. I got my private and instrument ratings on 10/21 and my multi engine rating this week. Thanks for all of the encouragement and especially to Dr. Bruce for extra guidance, it was much appreciated. I've still got a long way to go but so far so good!

Glad to hear that!!

 

[acluffpoa]

OP, Very cool!

 

[poadeleted20]

I doubt one DUI will be a issue

For getting a pilot certificate, correct, as long as it's well in the past and not involving too high a BAC (or a refusal to be tested). For a career as a pilot, not so. Air carriers know that the second DUI in a lifetime means one year off the schedule in a paid medical disability status, and that's very expensive for the carrier. I've discussed this with several airline hiring offices, and while for legal reasons it isn't written policy anywhere, they simply don't hire anyone with one DUI in their record -- too many folks with the right quals but no DUI's out there so your resume goes to the bottom of the stack and stays there. You may be able to work as a flight instructor, or many other pilot jobs, but you aren't going to be hired by an airline with a DUI on your record unless they can't find anyone else without one (i.e., there are no other resumes left on top of yours).

Edit: I see the unregistered party who posted what I quoted has removed his/her post -- and rightly so, as it is not accurate.

 

[ChitDisturber]

I hit the reply button for my last post without signing in, the unregistered post was mine, thanks for our highly senstive admins for pointing that out.

As it appears to have disappeared,

I pointed out that the general consensus here, as illustrated on a diffrent post, was that even a child molestor (registered sex offender) can become a pilot. Thus one DUI shouldn't be a issue, given the gravity between the two offenses.

 

[poadeleted20]

I hit the reply button for my last post without signing in, the unregistered post was mine, thanks for our highly senstive admins for pointing that out.

As it appears to have disappeared,

I pointed out that the general consensus here, as illustrated on a diffrent post, was that even a child molestor (registered sex offender) can become a pilot. Thus one DUI shouldn't be a issue, given the gravity between the two offenses.

Again, that is true for pilot certification, but not for a career as a professional pilot. And since you mention child molestation, that one does legally bar you from air carrier employment as a pilot for ten years (after which your resume will still go to the bottom of the pile, although I don't know whether that or the DUI will sink furthest).

 

[Unregistered]

For getting a pilot certificate, correct, as long as it's well in the past and not involving too high a BAC (or a refusal to be tested). For a career as a pilot, not so. Air carriers know that the second DUI in a lifetime means one year off the schedule in a paid medical disability status, and that's very expensive for the carrier. I've discussed this with several airline hiring offices, and while for legal reasons it isn't written policy anywhere, they simply don't hire anyone with one DUI in their record -- too many folks with the right quals but no DUI's out there so your resume goes to the bottom of the stack and stays there. You may be able to work as a flight instructor, or many other pilot jobs, but you aren't going to be hired by an airline with a DUI on your record unless they can't find anyone else without one (i.e., there are no other resumes left on top of yours).

Edit: I see the unregistered party who posted what I quoted has removed his/her post -- and rightly so, as it is not accurate.

How many airlines have you flown for???

 

[ChitDisturber]

How many airlines have you flown for???

Now that one wasnt me, but I'm interested in the answer to that question too


FYI my last 121 offer of employment stated "unblemished background check" I'm guessing they would tell the chomo to PFO before the guy with a single college DUI.

 

[poadeleted20]

How many airlines have you flown for???

What does that have to do with the situation? When I was the director of a university aviation program, and chair of the University Aviation Association's Flight Education committee, I worked with several airlines (both regional and major) on these issues, and what I'm saying is industry standard. Y'all want to invest 50 or 100 grand in a professional pilot program and then find out the hard way you cannot get an airline job, go right ahead, but the cold hard facts are what I posted.

 

[RotorAndWing]

How many airlines have you flown for???

He hasn't.

But let's separate the chaff from the wheat:

Air carriers know that the second DUI in a lifetime means one year off the schedule in a paid medical disability status, and that's very expensive for the carrier.

Which carrier has this policy?

I've discussed this with several airline hiring offices, and while for legal reasons it isn't written policy anywhere, they simply don't hire anyone with one DUI in their record -- too many folks with the right quals but no DUI's out there so your resume goes to the bottom of the stack and stays there.

While no doubt with the thousands of applicants it's easier to take ones from the top, I find it a bit incredulous to believe you go around talking to "airline hiring offices" (similar to you stating you went around to FBO's reading their insurance policies) and they divulge their hiring practices to someone off of the street.

You may be able to work as a flight instructor, or many other pilot jobs, but you aren't going to be hired by an airline with a DUI on your record unless they can't find anyone else without one (i.e., there are no other resumes left on top of yours).
.

Never say never. Sometimes airline hiring is a network event and more of who you know rather than a HR boilerplate requirement.

 

[RotorAndWing]

What does that have to do with the situation? When I was the director of a university aviation program, and chair of the University Aviation Association's Flight Education committee, I worked with several airlines (both regional and major) on these issues, and what I'm saying is industry standard. Y'all want to invest 50 or 100 grand in a professional pilot program and then find out the hard way you cannot get an airline job, go right ahead, but the cold hard facts are what I posted.

How many years ago was that?

 

[poadeleted20]

Which carrier has this policy?

All four with which I spoke -- two major (both in the top five) and two regional, and they all said this was industry-wide practice. Obviously, they will not acknowledge this publicly since it is contrary to EEOC law, but they made clear this is what happens with such applications.

While no doubt with the thousands of applicants it's easier to take ones from the top, I find it a bit incredulous to believe you go around talking to "airline hiring offices" (similar to you stating you went around to FBO's reading their insurance policies) and they divulge their hiring practices to someone off of the street.

They did not view me as "someone off the street" when I approached them in the capacity I mentioned.

No doubt you may find some small 121 operation which does otherwise, but not the US majors, and not any regional affiliated with a major US air carrier. Of course, I'm willing to be proven wrong if you can find someone hired by such a carrier with a DUI in their record, but my advice stands -- if you already have a DUI, expect to be turned down for employment by a major US airline or a regional affiliated with such an airline.

 

[RotorAndWing]

All four with which I spoke -- two major (both in the top five) and two regional, and they all said this was industry-wide practice. Obviously, they will not acknowledge this publicly since it is contrary to EEOC law, but they made clear this is what happens with such applications.

They did not view me as "someone off the street" when I approached them in the capacity I mentioned.

No doubt you may find some small 121 operation which does otherwise, but not the US majors, and not any regional affiliated with a major US air carrier. Of course, I'm willing to be proven wrong if you can find someone hired by such a carrier with a DUI in their record, but my advice stands -- if you already have a DUI, expect to be turned down for employment by a major US airline or a regional affiliated with such an airline.

Never say never, and I congratulate the OP for his drive and determination.

As an example,
I never sat foot in a college classroom, opting to go in the Navy out of high school (I couldn't afford college). Even with that I made it into the airlines, held a position with the FAA as an Inspector and even went back to the Airlines. During all of that I ran a very successful aviation business.

To the OP, follow your dream and never give up.

 

[poadeleted20]

Never say never, and I congratulate the OP for his drive and determination.

As an example,
I never sat foot in a college classroom, opting to go in the Navy out of high school (I couldn't afford college). Even with that I made it into the airlines, held a position with the FAA as an Inspector and even went back to the Airlines. During all of that I ran a very successful aviation business.

To the OP, follow your dream and never give up.

Dream all you want, let your reach exceed your grasp, etc, etc. However, if as the director of that aviation program I led on a prospective student with such a record and then upon graduation that student found that record to be an impenetrable barrier to a job as an airline pilot, the university would have been sued and lost, and I'd have lost my job. And that would not have been the first time that all happened to someone in that position. So, while you can do what you anonymously please, when it comes to advice to someone with that record, I'll keep my advice based on reality, not wishing and hoping.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Dream all you want, let your reach exceed your grasp, etc, etc. However, if as the director of that aviation program I led on a prospective student with such a record and then upon graduation that student found that record to be an impenetrable barrier to a job as an airline pilot, the university would have been sued and lost, and I'd have lost my job. And that would not have been the first time that all happened to someone in that position. So, while you can do what you anonymously please, when it comes to advice to someone with that record, I'll keep my advice based on reality, not wishing and hoping.

Oh please......

 

[Jim Logajan]

I've discussed this with several airline hiring offices, and while for legal reasons it isn't written policy anywhere, they simply don't hire anyone with one DUI in their record -- too many folks with the right quals but no DUI's out there so your resume goes to the bottom of the stack and stays there.

I'm having a hard time understanding why these hiring offices would so easily shove a candidate's resume to the bottom who graduated summa cum laude. Is everyone from Lake Wobegon applying for jobs at the airlines?

Edit: By the way, congrats to the OP. Nicely done.

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm having a hard time understanding why these hiring offices would so easily shove a candidate's resume to the bottom who graduated summa cum laude.

Then let me say it a second time:

Air carriers know that the second DUI in a lifetime means one year off the schedule in a paid medical disability status, and that's very expensive for the carrier.

Since it is an axiom that you have to say something three times in order for people to get it, I'll save the trouble of writing a third post:

Air carriers know that the second DUI in a lifetime means one year off the schedule in a paid medical disability status, and that's very expensive for the carrier.

Good night.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Then let me say it a second time:

Air carriers know that the second DUI in a lifetime means one year off the schedule in a paid medical disability status, and that's very expensive for the carrier.

Since it is an axiom that you have to say something three times in order for people to get it, I'll save the trouble of writing a third post:

Air carriers know that the second DUI in a lifetime means one year off the schedule in a paid medical disability status, and that's very expensive for the carrier.

Good night.

Again, which carriers are you referring to? Last time I checked carriers had different levels of loss of license insurance. Also ALPA has a HIMS program in place.

There are a few AA, UAL, DAL and other pilots on here. Maybe they can shed some light on what the actual policies are for their respective carriers.

 

[dell30rb]

All four with which I spoke -- two major (both in the top five) and two regional, and they all said this was industry-wide practice. Obviously, they will not acknowledge this publicly since it is contrary to EEOC law, but they made clear this is what happens with such applications.

I would prefer hiring someone with a DUI in the past to getting sued for an EEOC violation. I'd much rather pay a salary or two for a year than get hit with a lawsuit that could cost millions and give my company tons of negative PR.

If I was a HR person at a major airline I would not confide in you that I was knowingly breaking the law.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RotorAndWing]

If I was a HR person at a major airline I would not confide in you that I was knowingly breaking the law.

Exactly.

 

[greghughes]

Sometimes I think the board should be renamed to "Let's argue with Ron..." Talk about skewed search results. But I digress. Again.

To the OP: I was glad to see your first post where you asked honest questions and appeared to take responsibility for your own actions. Then I scrolled down and saw your post about getting your medical and the certificate/accomplishments. I've never had a DUI, but did have to go through the "I used to drink badly" process of convincing the doc and the FAA on my medical application several years back, and to you I say this: "Awesome!"

I hope your career is amazing. Congrats.

 

[RJM62]

Just wanted to post an update, I was able to get my first class medical after the medical and substance abuse evaluation. I got my private and instrument ratings on 10/21 and my multi engine rating this week. Thanks for all of the encouragement and especially to Dr. Bruce for extra guidance, it was much appreciated. I've still got a long way to go but so far so good!

Congratulations!

-Rich

 

[thezoolityre]

Well you are quite a liability with even a single DUI on your record. Not to mention if you wanted to fly in to Canada you have to wait another 5 years because they will actually deport you back to the U.S. and make someone else take the flight home if they find out you have had a DUI in the last 10 years and have been flying in Canada. This happened to a buddy of mine who had one just like this 6 years ago... When they did a background check on him... They pulled him in and told the agency to call in another pilot and they put him on an airliner as a passenger back to the U.S.

So that's what I have seen so far

 

[Jim Logajan]

Well you are quite a liability with even a single DUI on your record. Not to mention if you wanted to fly in to Canada you have to wait another 5 years because they will actually deport you back to the U.S. and make someone else take the flight home if they find out you have had a DUI in the last 10 years and have been flying in Canada. This happened to a buddy of mine who had one just like this 6 years ago... When they did a background check on him... They pulled him in and told the agency to call in another pilot and they put him on an airliner as a passenger back to the U.S.

So that's what I have seen so far

They are so hard-ass up there that they make people like that mayor of Toronto....

On a different note, there are options outside the major airlines - this web site is one resource:

http://oddballpilot.com/

 

[Anymouse]

Well you are quite a liability with even a single DUI on your record. Not to mention if you wanted to fly in to Canada you have to wait another 5 years because they will actually deport you back to the U.S. and make someone else take the flight home if they find out you have had a DUI in the last 10 years and have been flying in Canada. This happened to a buddy of mine who had one just like this 6 years ago... When they did a background check on him... They pulled him in and told the agency to call in another pilot and they put him on an airliner as a passenger back to the U.S.

So that's what I have seen so far

Zoo has a point, but his numbers are wrong. From a knowledgeable website...

If you are deemed to be rehabilitated, you will be granted lifetime access into Canada despite the offenses. A rehabilitation document does not need to be renewed. The process is somewhat complicated so you may want to have it handled by an experienced immigration lawyer.

Your offense must be at least 5 years old to apply for rehabilitation. To obtain this approval you will file the Canadian rehabilitation forms with the nearest Canadian visa office. Fees range from $200 to $1,000 depending on your offense.

You should expect that it will take at least 6 -12 months obtain this waiver so apply well before your intended Canadian border crossing.

I did this myself (no professionals involved) and the process took right at one year. You will need to fill out a form, get FBI and state criminal and driving records for every state you've had a driver's license. These need to be certified copies. You'll also be required to write a statement concerning your offenses. Send it all in, along with a check for the appropriate amount, and wait for their response.

I've been through Canada several times since getting "rehabilitated" with absolutely no issues.

 

[ClimbnSink]

If there is solid evidence of not having a drinking problem a responsible individual with one DUI is a better hire. None of that I have a freebie so "I'll drive buzzed, just tonight"
Dunno if the airlines look at it that way.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

If there is solid evidence of not having a drinking problem a responsible individual with one DUI is a better hire. None of that I have a freebie so "I'll drive buzzed, just tonight"

Really??

 

[ClimbnSink]

Really??

Your judgement is going to be different whether it is sudden career death or just unpleasantness. Pilots like to believe they are super rational machines, reality begs to differ. Note all the smart experienced non risk taker pilots that go in doing something retarded. Those pilots are not an exception, they are us. Take the same people add a little alcohol and a simple task, say driving a car, you weren't planning on it when you had a couple but if you drive across town right now you can get laid. Super rational machine says bad idea, humans say I'm outta here.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

Your judgement is going to be different whether it is sudden career death or just unpleasantness. Pilots like to believe they are super rational machines, reality begs to differ. Note all the smart experienced non risk taker pilots that go in doing something retarded. Those pilots are not an exception, they are us. Take the same people add a little alcohol and a simple task, say driving a car, you weren't planning on it when you had a couple but if you drive across town right now you can get laid. Super rational machine says bad idea, humans say I'm outta here.

You are either hanging with the wrong crowd or fooling yourself, but you are doing those who are capable of making the decision not to get drunk and drive across town to get laid "right now" in the first place a disservice.

Maybe you should call your local bank and tell them it would be safer to hire tellers who have already been caught once stealing from the till, since they now have improved judgement knowing they will experience "career death" if they steal again.

Oh, and given the chance, I'd bet you'll choose a surgeon with one prior vs. one with a clean past, since he's less likely to be drunk when putting you under the knife?

 

[Unregistered]

Statistics show that if you have been caught DUI, then it's probable that you drove drunk at least five other times, not getting caught. If you are caught again you will done for as far as an airline career is concerned. Police are given classes on what to look for and most are much more intolerant than they were say 20 years ago plus, mothers against drunk drivers now hang out in court rooms to make sure swift justice is dispensed. ( they've done this for years.) airlines have now got a lot to choose from as military pilots are going to get out due to defense cuts and no promotion. Some are multi engine pilots with lotsa time. Clean records, etc.

 

[ChitDisturber]

Lol DUI

What about the children lol


Look

Driving drunk is bad, but as for the severity of the crime, WAY over hyped


DUIs are about revenue not "safety"

 

[Unregistered]

Airlines are very hip to alcohol abuse as they spend lotsa bucks each year putting pilots, stews, etc. thru rehab clinics. ( they would rather get a current pilot sober with high time and good experience than have to hire a newbie. ) your DWI may have been a wakeup call that you missed. An airline pilot who is caught, if kept on, faces a LONG time period before he's back in the air, in many cases over a year. The days of Ernie Gann are long gone.