Short Field comfort level

Whats the shortest field you would fly in and out of

  • No less than 2800' to 3000'

    Votes: 4 5.8%

  • No less than 2500' to 2799'

    Votes: 5 7.2%

  • No less than 2100' to 2499'

    Votes: 15 21.7%

  • 1800 to 2099'

    Votes: 18 26.1%

  • less than 1800'

    Votes: 27 39.1%
  • Total voters
    69
AdamZ

AdamZ

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Adam Zucker
What is the shortest Field you feel comfortable flying into and as a side note what is the narrowest strip you feel comfortable flying into (And in what type of plane)
 
AdamZ said:
What is the shortest Field you feel comfortable flying into and as a side note what is the narrowest strip you feel comfortable flying into (And in what type of plane)
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Well, that last bit really makes the difference doesn't it? I'm not flying a 421 onto the same minimum runway I'd fly a 502 Air Tractor or Super Cub onto am I? There are too many variables both environmental and with the aircraft to make this kind of statement, but I have operated in and out of less than 1800', and there are times I'll pass by a 4000' runway for longer.
 
I've got no issues flying into a 1500' field. Very easy. Could do 1'000 if I had too, but I wouldn't be real happy about it. I've worked off of two fields with 24' of pavement width. One of them is kind of cheating, though, since they have grass down both sides for an official runway width of 85'. The other, my all time favorite airport (http://www.airnav.com/airport/WV12) makes up for it, though, with 24' paved, a hill right next to it on one side, and a drop off by the dogleg on the other.

Aircraft? Cessna Skyhawk is what I've done all my short field work in. A most versatile plane. Not as fast or fun to fly as the Tiger, but perhaps more all around useful.
 
Good topic, bad question.

The answer depends on too many unstated parameters. I wouldn't land an F-111 on less than 8000 feet of concrete, but I planted an A-6 on 700 feet of steel many times -- with arresting gear. Likewise, I'd take a C-150 into a sea level 1600-foot grass strip (short grass, hard dirt) happily, but I want at least 5000 feet of concrete in a Tiger when the DA is over 7000 feet. As a personal minimum, unless I'm planning to remove the aircraft on a flat-bed truck, I use 150% of the book 50-foot obstacle takeoff distance as my minimum acceptable runway length, knowing that I can land in about half the space it requires to take off again.
 
Ron Levy said:
Good topic, bad question.The answer depends on too many unstated parameters.
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For departure, with passengers: SL Standard Day, PA 34 200T at gross, I want 4800 feet with no headwind if there are no obstructions in the departure plane beyond 2800 from the threshold at an incline of 100 vertical feet per nmile. 200 undergross I can handle 3600 feet. The impact of gross weight is AMAZING.

Without Passengers: 2400 feet 50 foot obstacle, predicated on two engines operating.

For Arrival, Same as for departure. I have to get out, you know.
 
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Henning said:
There are too many variables both environmental and with the aircraft to make this kind of statement, .
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Ron Levy said:
Good topic, bad question.
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Ouch! My assumption in asking the question was taking into account the GA aircraft we use most in the pursuit of our expensive obsession. It was not meant to include aircraft used in aerail application, banner towing, F-15s or the Lear you fly in your 135 operation. etc. For the poll state the shortest field you would fly a GA aircraft into . The purpose of the "posting" section is so that you can qualify the answer in the poll. So if you fly an Tiger a Husky and a Falcon you can give the parameters for all of them. same goes if your flying out of MTN vs. FRG then just say so.

Also assume wind calm and no obstructions and temp of say 85F/29.4C (Credit to Bruce)
 
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The narrowest I've landed on is Causey, Liberty NC at 40' wide. I've been plugging away at my goal to land at all the public paved airports in NC. This one Sugar Valley will be a challenge at 25' wide, 2424' long and some lovely trees on approach to RWY 20.
 
AdamZ said:
What is the shortest Field you feel comfortable flying into and as a side note what is the narrowest strip you feel comfortable flying into (And in what type of plane)
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This is where I've been doing my Citabria acro/tailwheel training. 2100ft grass, go short or long, you're getting wet.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/TN98
 
AdamZ said:
Ouch! My assumption in asking the question was taking into account the GA aircraft we use most in the pursuit of our expensive obsession. It was not meant to include aircraft used in aerail application, banner towing, F-15s or the Lear you fly in your 135 operation. etc. For the poll state the shortest field you would fly a GA aircraft into . The purpose of the "posting" section is so that you can qualify the answer in the poll. So if you fly an Tiger a Husky and a Falcon you can give the parameters for all of them.
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Zero Wind, no obstructions within 1 mile, SL, ISO Std Day, 1/2 fuel, pilot and no load.
AT 502 land 300' T/O empty 500' loaded 2500'
Stinson 108 w/ 235hp 500'
172 1000'
PA-28xxx 800'-1800' depending on model
BE-3X 1500'
BE-95 2200'

Most of the time for ferry jobs off of short fields, I do some accelleration trials to make sure I can get off.
 
Adam, I got what you meant, but I suggest you do your next BFR with Cap'n Ron just to make sure. :)

In my Tiger, at or near sea level, as you know, I have no problem getting out of 2,200 ft. strips like Hummel, Sulada, VA. At N47, Pottstown Muni's 2,700 ft. strip where I used to be based, I operated routinely just under gross in mid-summer temps. Hummel's length is essentially my personal limit.

Did my BFR yesterday at my 5,500 ft elevation runway. (yes, that's 5,500 ft. MSL, not runway length) I had to demonstrate some short field landings and T.O.'s on a 8,000 ft runway. LOL! BTW, the CFI started the flight portion of the BFR with a soft field T.O. My comment was, this is the only time my Tiger will do anything remotely related to a soft field. :)
 
The narrowest feild I've landed at was 25' wide asphalt. (Brockenborugh, a closed & now gone airport north of Charlotte)


Shortest field was 200 feet in a glider. Had over fifty feet left.

:yes:
 
AdamZ said:
What is the shortest Field you feel comfortable flying into and as a side note what is the narrowest strip you feel comfortable flying into (And in what type of plane)
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Home field 76S is 25X2300, most of the regulars use the mid field turn around.

I have taken the C-170 into 900' grass, and gotten out with 4 adults, half fuel.

Acme Wa. is 800' grass, I have been there alone in the rag wing 170, but be careful, you may have to mow the grass to get out.
 
PA28-180
Narrowest strip was 35' wide. (28A - Goose Creek, NC)
Shortest strip was 3600' grass, but 1/2 was under water. So <1800' usable.
2 guys, full fuel minus 10 gallons, 2 sets of golf clubs. Used about 1/2 of the usable with a slight tailwind on an 80º afternoon. Elev - about 700'

With no obstructions I would go as low as 1000' and still feel comfortable if just me in the plane. Then again with full fuel I'm still like almost 500 under gross.
 
First time I landed and departed grass was on a strip which was, as it turned out, only 2,400 long. I was with checkout instructor and flew where he told me to. No problem and I only realized that it was kinda short later, when I looked it up.

Skinniest was 30', that on the day I was checking out with a new FBO for renting. Strong crosswind (16 knots?), and when I questioned the exqusitely skilled check outinstructor about it, she reminded me that (1) we were within demonstrated x-wind component for the 172; and (2) the runway was wider than the landing gear track; so I should have no trouble. Took two tries (wires on short final made me vervous), but done and a valuable experience it was for someone who had been landing on jet airliner-class runways. (You reading this, Stacey? I wasn't nervous. No really, I wasn't!)
 
I chose No less than 2100-2499 feet, thinking in terms of the airplane I fly today (Cardinal RG), and with only myself and my flight bag. Based on my experience at 3DA (2500 feet, trees just beyond the runway end) I would be comfortable down to about 2300 feet on a smooth paved surface, without obstructions along the departure path. On 2500 feet or less of grass, or a cracked surface (e.g. Sebewaing <2200 feet) I would wait for a good headwind to try going in there. 18 at 57D (<2200 feet, second half grass, trees and power lines) would definitely be outside my comfort level in that airplane.

At gross, 2500 feet paved would be about my personal limit in the 177RG, maybe 2800 turf.

In a 172, whole 'nother story... 18 at 57D is easy with one passenger, wouldn't be too uncomfortable with a 1800 foot grass strip alone, no obstructions.

Liz
 
Home field is 2300 feet. 2000 no problem. 30' is wide enough, but not much margin for error.
 
grattonja said:
Home field is 2300 feet. 2000 no problem. 30' is wide enough, but not much margin for error.
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Every runway has a center line, some of them, that's all you have.
 
One of the shortest was Mile Hi Idaho at 500' in C170, but the ~22% incline slows down LDG and yields a 3-4 second TO, even at 5000'+ DA.

In Alaska on river bars, a little over 300' but, we cheated, using PA Super Cruiser and Arctic Tern.

The narrowest, and fairly rough, is Quatum River, BC. The thick tree branches were a meter off each wingtip of the SkyHawks I flew in & out of there just after getting private pilot. (it's pictured on the home page of moutainflyingvideos.com)
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
One of the shortest was Mile Hi Idaho at 500' in C170, but the ~22% incline slows down LDG and yields a 3-4 second TO, even at 5000'+ DA.

In Alaska on river bars, a little over 300' but, we cheated, using PA Super Cruiser and Arctic Tern.

The narrowest, and fairly rough, is Quatum River, BC. The thick tree branches were a meter off each wingtip of the SkyHawks I flew in & out of there just after getting private pilot. (it's pictured on the home page of moutainflyingvideos.com)
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Spring Hill BC is another, land on a side hill, and roll out around the hill.
 
Who holds the shortest landing record for fixed wing?

AdamZ said:
What is the shortest Field you feel comfortable flying into and as a side note what is the narrowest strip you feel comfortable flying into (And in what type of plane)
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?????
 
Re: Who holds the shortest landing record for fixed wing?

NC19143 said:
?????
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It could be the guy that used to land a Cub or some such on top of a moving truck about 8X10 feet...
 
For me - about 2000 feet on a good day with no gusts or serious crosswinds. Even then, it might take a go-around to get it right - I'm not gonna set it down with that little runway if I'm too high or too fast.

In the summer, probably not - takeoff could be an issue.

Piper Warrior or Cherokee 180.
 
Forgot the width.

I'm pretty sure I've landed on 40', but then I trained on 50' so that's not a big deal.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Where abouts is Spring Hill ? Sounds cool.
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South of Williams lake (20 miles)

Solder Bar Id. is another great little airport, but don't mess up the approach.
 
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Re: Who holds the shortest landing record for fixed wing?

Originally Posted by Ron Levy
His name is Roger Lehnert. http://www.n57.com/roger.htm He'll be at the Millville NJ Air Show on May 20-22, including an evening performance on Friday. http://www.schultzairshows.com/miv-sched.htm

Dave Krall CFII said:
Outstanding... I thought that act was long gone.
Hope he gets out west here sometime !
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Dunno which would take longer to get to Seattle -- the Cub or the truck.
 
Henning said:
Well, that last bit really makes the difference doesn't it? I'm not flying a 421 onto the same minimum runway I'd fly a 502 Air Tractor or Super Cub onto am I? There are too many variables both environmental and with the aircraft to make this kind of statement, but I have operated in and out of less than 1800', and there are times I'll pass by a 4000' runway for longer.
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The taildragger would be comfortable with 1000 feet (no obstacles) although I think the shortest I've actually tried was more like 1500 (with trees). I have taken the B55 in and out of a couple grass strips slightly shorter than 2000 ft with trees and wires, but that's definitely NOT comfortable.
 
AdamZ said:
What is the shortest Field you feel comfortable flying into and as a side note what is the narrowest strip you feel comfortable flying into (And in what type of plane)
Click to expand...

PA28-181 1,800
R22 0 (Runway? We doan need no stinkin' runway!)
 
Funny short "field" story: A friend with a fresh seaplane rating landed his just-acquired Lake in the small lake behind his condo. After a few attempts at taking off, he called a renown seaplane instructor in a nearby city to come and try to get it out of the lake. Took that guy a couple of tries, but the airplane eventually it made it with nothing being disassembled.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
PA28-181 1,800
R22 0 (Runway? We doan need no stinkin' runway!)
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Ya Know Bob as I made this post I thought to myself perhaps I'd better insert something to the effect of " This means fixed wing Bob the R22 don't count" I was just waiting for your response:rolleyes:
 
Re: Who holds the shortest landing record for fixed wing?

NC19143 said:
It taks two days in a J-3, two LONG days.
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8 hours to disassemble and box up for Fed-Ex, and 12 hours the next day to reassemble after it arrives? :p
 
Re: Who holds the shortest landing record for fixed wing?

Ron Levy said:
Originally Posted by Ron Levy
His name is Roger Lehnert. http://www.n57.com/roger.htm He'll be at the Millville NJ Air Show on May 20-22, including an evening performance on Friday. http://www.schultzairshows.com/miv-sched.htm



Dunno which would take longer to get to Seattle -- the Cub or the truck.
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I would come to New Jersey again to see him, but consider it too risky...
 
I use a simple method that buys me margins. For length, I calculate the actual distance it will take me to clear a 50-foot obstacle, MGTOW, on a bad day (around here, that's 3,000' DA); then I double that value. For most aircraft I fly, the number won't top 3,500'. Now, if I'm alone, or the DA is low, I will recalculate and consider going to the very few airstrips around here that aren't that long. For width, I feel comfortable down to 40 feet, and don't see the need to get more narrow because, again, most of the places I fly have runways that aren't so narrow. As a side note, I find that I land much more precisely aligned with the centerline when I'm landing on a narrow runway.
 
Re: Who holds the shortest landing record for fixed wing?

Ron Levy said:
His name is Roger Lehnert. http://www.n57.com/roger.htm He'll be at the Millville NJ Air Show on May 20-22, including an evening performance on Friday. http://www.schultzairshows.com/miv-sched.htm
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First I've heard about that airshow. I found out the other day while watching a documentary with the Blue Angels on it that Cathy has never been to an airshow, and I know Sean hasn't. I think I'll see if she wants to hit this one up. The Snowbirds are pretty good, aren't they?
 
Ken Ibold said:
Funny short "field" story: A friend with a fresh seaplane rating landed his just-acquired Lake in the small lake behind his condo. After a few attempts at taking off, he called a renown seaplane instructor in a nearby city to come and try to get it out of the lake. Took that guy a couple of tries, but the airplane eventually it made it with nothing being disassembled.
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Least he was smart enough to make the call instead of breaking his plane!!
 
Currently use a 30X3600 with constant x-winds of 30 to 40 degrees between 10 to 15 knots. The plane needs 2600 to clear a 50' obsticle at gross, (a small engine Debonair). The plane handles the x-winds with no problem but one must not raise the gear immediately for the drag will lower the climb rate. The shortest field I have used was 1200 feet (grass) in a Cessna 172 with clear approaches. Just watch the cows on the neighbors land.


John J
 
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