Short Approach Procedures.

RileyMitchum

RileyMitchum

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RileyMitchum
Hey guys! Just curious, I was up flying today doing touch and goes and decided to try a short approach. The way I have always done them is to, once abeam the numbers pull power to idle, add full flaps, and get down. I always thought these were to simulate an engine out in the pattern (although I did have to add some power on short final to not hit the grass). I am just wondering if there is another set of procedures that I may be missing. Just want to see what you guys do. By the way, did pretty good on the short approach, hit the number (3) spot on!
 
What do you mean by "short approach"? Landing as short as possible, or flying some portion of the pattern without power as "simulated engine out" practice? Doing a simulated engine out has nothing to do with landing in the shortest distance. If you ever have a real engine out issue, you'd be a fool to attempt to land in the shortest distance possible from the absolute end of your landing area. That's a good way to come up just short (as you did), land in the trees, and kill yourself rather than rolling into the woods at 20 mph off the far end of your emergency landing area.
 
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I am talking about when you are on downwind (usually) and the tower wants to squeeze you in before another landing. They request that you make a short approach. I guess they just want you to cut the base and final legs as short as possible?
 
OK, if you want the shortest approach - from downwind abeam the numbers, pull power off, full flaps, full slip at the top of the white arc while turning to base, then make a sharp turn as steep as possible around to final, pulling to the buffet, while slipping to quickly scrub your speed down to 1.3Vso, then continue a full-deflection slip to touchdown. That will get you down the quickest. :D But what you did is what most folks would do. ;) No such thing as a "procedure" for this. Just get down as fast as you're comfortable with, while being safe.
 
RoscoeT said:
OK, if you want the shortest approach - from downwind abeam the numbers, pull power off, full flaps, full slip at the top of the white arc while turning to base, then make a sharp turn as steep as possible around to final, pulling to the buffet, while slipping to quickly scrub your speed down to 1.3Vso, then continue a full-deflection slip to touchdown. That will get you down the quickest. :D But what you did is what most folks would do. ;) No such thing as a "procedure" for this. Just get down as fast as you're comfortable with, while being safe.
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Exactly.

And if any part of doing the requested 'short approach' is uncomfortable, 'unable' is the key word to use.
 
RoscoeT said:
OK, if you want the shortest approach - from downwind abeam the numbers, pull power off, full flaps, full slip at the top of the white arc while turning to base, then make a sharp turn as steep as possible around to final, pulling to the buffet, while slipping to quickly scrub your speed down to 1.3Vso, then continue a full-deflection slip to touchdown. That will get you down the quickest. :D But what you did is what most folks would do. ;) No such thing as a "procedure" for this. Just get down as fast as you're comfortable with, while being safe.
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Bill Watson said:
Exactly.

And if any part of doing the requested 'short approach' is uncomfortable, 'unable' is the key word to use.
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Exactly. :D
 
And all-the-while aware that the slam-dunk approaches favored by approach control at many of these high-traffic airports may have put you on the downwind high and above VFE/VFO which further compounds the "slow down and get down quickly" problem. And also mindful that such situations are potential traps for gear-up and other embarrassments because the inherent distractions and change of sequence of events in the cockpit.

RoscoeT said:
OK, if you want the shortest approach - from downwind abeam the numbers, pull power off, full flaps, full slip at the top of the white arc while turning to base, then make a sharp turn as steep as possible around to final, pulling to the buffet, while slipping to quickly scrub your speed down to 1.3Vso, then continue a full-deflection slip to touchdown. That will get you down the quickest. :D But what you did is what most folks would do. ;) No such thing as a "procedure" for this. Just get down as fast as you're comfortable with, while being safe.
Click to expand...
 
RoscoeT said:
OK, if you want the shortest approach - from downwind abeam the numbers, pull power off, full flaps, full slip at the top of the white arc while turning to base, then make a sharp turn as steep as possible around to final, pulling to the buffet, while slipping to quickly scrub your speed down to 1.3Vso, then continue a full-deflection slip to touchdown. That will get you down the quickest. :D But what you did is what most folks would do. ;) No such thing as a "procedure" for this. Just get down as fast as you're comfortable with, while being safe.
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Negative! And unable!

I will not "pull to buffet" in a steep turn while slipping from base to final. I'm still enjoying life. This is a setup for a fatal spin.

For a requested short approach, pull power, add flaps and set her down as quickly as safety permits. Tower will let you know if it's not short enough and you will get to practice a go-around. No big deal, and no funeral expenses for your family.

"Short landing" as in "short field" simply requires being on speed with full flaps on short final, and touching as close to the numbers as possible, followed by heavy braking.
 
The answer to the OP's post if you are downwind and ATC asks you to make a short approach, all they are asking is "make it snappy". Don't end up with a 1.5 mile final 80 knot approach at 1700rpm following the PAPI. Get abeam the numbers, pull the power all the way out, put your flaps out, slow to 1.2-1.3 Vso and land the plane.
 
Hank S said:
Negative! And unable!

I will not "pull to buffet" in a steep turn while slipping from base to final. I'm still enjoying life. This is a setup for a fatal spin.
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I didn't think you could spin while slipping since you have the controls pinned to opposite a spin, not that i would be comfortable to do that anyway? Also the 172sp I fly says no slips with flaps.
 
RileyMitchum said:
Hey guys! Just curious, I was up flying today doing touch and goes and decided to try a short approach. The way I have always done them is to, once abeam the numbers pull power to idle, add full flaps, and get down. I always thought these were to simulate an engine out in the pattern
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I think you just made a contradiction. I doubt if, in a real engine out, you'd want to increase your drag as much as possible.
the tower wants to squeeze you in before another landing. They request that you make a short approach. I guess they just want you to cut the base and final legs as short as possible?
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Yep. That's more like it.

But yes, the procedure you and dell30rb describe would do it.
 
simtech said:
I didn't think you could spin while slipping since you have the controls pinned to opposite a spin, not that i would be comfortable to do that anyway? Also the 172sp I fly says no slips with flaps.
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I's bet it does not say "no slips with flaps." More like "slips with flaps not recommended."

So, you mean you don't do any crosswind landings with flaps?
 
midlifeflyer said:
I's bet it does not say "no slips with flaps." More like "slips with flaps not recommended."

So, you mean you don't do any crosswind landings with flaps?
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Ill have to look again to see the exact wordage. I do crosswind landings but I don't do aggressive slips to lose altitude with flaps.
 
simtech said:
Ill have to look again to see the exact wordage. I do crosswind landings but I don't do aggressive slips to lose altitude with flaps.
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I believe its "slips with full flaps not recommended"

If you do an aggressive slip with full flaps you'll feel a buffet in the tail and the plane will want to bob up and down a little bit. The airflow over the elevator gets disturbed. Its not a dangerous condition by any means though.
 
Hank S said:
I will not "pull to buffet" in a steep turn while slipping from base to final.
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Mine was not a serious comment, hence the smiley.

Hank S said:
This is a setup for a fatal spin.
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Everybody who hasn't actually tried it at altitude thinks this. Unless you make a very abrupt snap roll-style pull, most airplanes are very reluctant to spin from a hard slip, even if you pull the yoke all the way back.
 
dell30rb said:
I believe its "slips with full flaps not recommended"

If you do an aggressive slip with full flaps you'll feel a buffet in the tail and the plane will want to bob up and down a little bit. The airflow over the elevator gets disturbed. Its not a dangerous condition by any means though.
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Ah so I see, thanks! I actually thought it was a structural thing.
 
simtech said:
Ah so I see, thanks! I actually thought it was a structural thing.
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Nope, it is interesting to try, with a light grip on the controls the yoke bobs back and froth and the plane doesn't move much, hold the yoke still and the plane bobs

All very gently.
 
Thanks for the response guys! I talked with a flight instructor about it and I was thinking of the power off 180. Which seems like what you would do if you wanted to make a short approach. Thanks again!
 
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