Servicing a primer

Timbeck2

Timbeck2

Final Approach
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Timbeck2
Can an aircraft owner legally replace the O rings and lube the primer? I had an exchange this morning with an A&P who overheard me telling another pilot about the rebuild kit from Spruce (that works really, really well by the way) who proceeded to tell me that an aircraft owner can't do that because it involves the fuel system.
 
Is this activity included in the preventive maintenance section of FAR 43 appendix A?

I don’t think it is, but admittedly I didn’t look close.

I disagree with your mechanic’s reasoning for why it isn’t legal however. There are fuel system preventive maintenance items that an owner can perform.
 
It doesn't specifically mention fuel primers but
21 - Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.
22 - Replacing prefabricated fuel lines
23 - Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.

are allowed by the owner.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Can an aircraft owner legally replace the O rings and lube the primer? I had an exchange this morning with an A&P who overheard me telling another pilot about the rebuild kit from Spruce (that works really, really well by the way) who proceeded to tell me that an aircraft owner can't do that because it involves the fuel system.
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the primer pump ferry can,, :)
 
Tom-D said:
the primer pump ferry can,, :)
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Taking-the-Puntarenas-Paquera-Ferry.jpg
 
I know that they can't mention everything in the part 43 but the primer pump isn't mentioned anywhere that I saw. I don't see how an owner can replace a fuel/oil line on an aircraft including all the associated adel clamps which may or may not be connected to other adel clamps as long as the line is prefabricated and NOT be able to unscrew a nut, pull out the primer barrel, replace a couple of O rings, rub a little goat snot on it, push the primer barrel back in and screw the nut back.
 
No. But this seems like a task that's frequently done by hangar ferries. Amazing how they can knock out simple tasks like that, without any indication in the logs.
 
bradg33 said:
No. But this seems like a task that's frequently done by hangar ferries. Amazing how they can knock out simple tasks like that, without any indication in the logs.
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Oh no,, ! it must have been the MMO put in the fuel tank. :)
 
Well, you can replace a landing light bulb, but what about a position light bulb? :confused::eek:
 
Timbeck2 said:
I know that they can't mention everything in the part 43 but the primer pump isn't mentioned anywhere that I saw. I don't see how an owner can replace a fuel/oil line on an aircraft including all the associated adel clamps which may or may not be connected to other adel clamps as long as the line is prefabricated and NOT be able to unscrew a nut, pull out the primer barrel, replace a couple of O rings, rub a little goat snot on it, push the primer barrel back in and screw the nut back.
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Come on Tim, you have spent enough time around the government to know logic is not allowed!
 
Timbeck2 said:
Can an aircraft owner legally replace the O rings and lube the primer? I had an exchange this morning with an A&P who overheard me telling another pilot about the rebuild kit from Spruce (that works really, really well by the way) who proceeded to tell me that an aircraft owner can't do that because it involves the fuel system.
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Tim you need to move to my airport. That is the kind of thing that you come by my hanger and say," why don't you come to my hangar and drink this cold beer with a pen in your hand and watch what I do!"
 
unsafervguy said:
Tim you need to move to my airport. That is the kind of thing that you come by my hanger and say," why don't you come to my hangar and drink this cold beer with a pen in your hand and watch what I do!"
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Heh heh....I love it!
 
Timbeck2 said:
Can an aircraft owner legally replace the O rings and lube the primer? I had an exchange this morning with an A&P who overheard me telling another pilot about the rebuild kit from Spruce (that works really, really well by the way) who proceeded to tell me that an aircraft owner can't do that because it involves the fuel system.
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Legally, no.

But it isn't rocket science either.
 
Several times I think this kind of thing is open for interpretation. One mechanics concern is another's trivial item. Other than Tom, are there any other IAs that would like to chime in please?

To clarify the story, the "mechanic" was the one I use who tends to get a little moody and pops off with things he doesn't mean and blames it on the heat, his schedule, his aching body..etc. I work with him and another aspiring A&P mechanic every Saturday. We recently just finished a Cessna 182 that had been sitting in Scottsdale for the last 12 years so there was a LOT of things wrong with it. Anyway, the pilot next door to me (Brian) mentioned his primer and I said, "Hey, I bought two kits from Spruce. You can have the other one." So today my mechanic asks me, "When you worked on Brian's primer, do you think that was legal?" I said, "I didn't work on Brian's primer, he did and yes its legal with a log entry as owner." He said, "Pretty sure that's not part of the 31 things you can do as owner. You can't mess with the fuel system. So you think you can just go in any of these hangars and work on airplanes?"

That's the part that thoroughly cheesed me off.

All I said was, "You know better than that. You know ME better than that." And I turned around and walked away and don't intend to speak to him anytime soon. I went home and got my copy of the Part 43 and started reading and I'm still convinced an owner can do this but my opinion doesn't matter to the guy who signs off my log book when the real A&P stuff needs a signature.
 
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JAWS said:
Legally, no.

But it isn't rocket science either.
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Neither is changing a fuel hose or taking a gascolator apart and cleaning the screen. Two things that are allowed, in the fuel system and MUCH more involved than a primer. Is that based on your interpretation of Part 43 or something else?
 
It's stone simple to fix a leaky/balky primer (IF it's fixable by simply replacing and lubing O-rings), but legally I think you need your friendly A&P to review and sign off your work. BTDT.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Several times I think this kind of thing is open for interpretation. One mechanics concern is another's trivial item. Other than Tom, are there any other IAs that would like to chime in please?

To clarify the story, the "mechanic" was the one I use who tends to get a little moody and pops off with things he doesn't mean and blames it on the heat, his schedule, his aching body..etc. I work with him and another aspiring A&P mechanic every Saturday. We recently just finished a Cessna 182 that had been sitting in Scottsdale for the last 12 years so there was a LOT of things wrong with it. Anyway, the pilot next door to me (Brian) mentioned his primer and I said, "Hey, I bought two kits from Spruce. You can have the other one." So today my mechanic asks me, "When you worked on Brian's primer, do you think that was legal?" I said, "I didn't work on Brian's primer, he did and yes its legal with a log entry as owner." He said, "Pretty sure that's not part of the 31 things you can do as owner. (there's only 30 mentioned in Part 43 appendix A) You can't mess with the fuel system. So you think you can just go in any of these hangars and work on airplanes?"

That's the part that thoroughly cheesed me off.

All I said was, "You know better than that. You know ME better than that." And I turned around and walked away and don't intend to speak to him anytime soon. I went home and got my copy of the Part 43 and started reading and I'm still convinced an owner can do this but my opinion doesn't matter to the guy who signs off my log book when the real A&P stuff needs a signature.
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Some guys are way too up tight about little shi-

Me, I want your signature in that log as many times as possible.
 
Where is it specifically prohibited. That’s the navy answer.
 
TCABM said:
Where is it specifically prohibited. That’s the navy answer.
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FAR 43.
§43.3 Persons authorized to perform maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, and alterations.
(a) Except as provided in this section and §43.17, no person may maintain, rebuild, alter, or perform preventive maintenance on an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part to which this part applies. Those items, the performance of which is a major alteration, a major repair, or preventive maintenance, are listed in appendix A.

(b) The holder of a mechanic certificate may perform maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations as provided in Part 65 of this chapter.

(c) The holder of a repairman certificate may perform maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations as provided in part 65 of this chapter.

(d) A person working under the supervision of a holder of a mechanic or repairman certificate may perform the maintenance, preventive maintenance, and alterations that his supervisor is authorized to perform, if the supervisor personally observes the work being done to the extent necessary to ensure that it is being done properly and if the supervisor is readily available, in person, for consultation. However, this paragraph does not authorize the performance of any inspection required by Part 91 or Part 125 of this chapter or any inspection performed after a major repair or alteration.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I'm not going to get an answer for that. I guess its all up to interpretation and mine doesn't count. <shrug>
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Sure it does, this is the internet.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Neither is changing a fuel hose or taking a gascolator apart and cleaning the screen. Two things that are allowed, in the fuel system and MUCH more involved than a primer. Is that based on your interpretation of Part 43 or something else?
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Preventitive mx is a comprehensive list. If the item is not specifically shown, the owner isn't allowed to do it.

But in real life, all sorts of things happen. Replacing orings in a fuel primer is no more difficult than changing oil or fuel filters.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Several times I think this kind of thing is open for interpretation. One mechanics concern is another's trivial item. Other than Tom, are there any other IAs that would like to chime in please?

To clarify the story, the "mechanic" was the one I use who tends to get a little moody and pops off with things he doesn't mean and blames it on the heat, his schedule, his aching body..etc. I work with him and another aspiring A&P mechanic every Saturday. We recently just finished a Cessna 182 that had been sitting in Scottsdale for the last 12 years so there was a LOT of things wrong with it. Anyway, the pilot next door to me (Brian) mentioned his primer and I said, "Hey, I bought two kits from Spruce. You can have the other one." So today my mechanic asks me, "When you worked on Brian's primer, do you think that was legal?" I said, "I didn't work on Brian's primer, he did and yes its legal with a log entry as owner." He said, "Pretty sure that's not part of the 31 things you can do as owner. (there's only 30 mentioned in Part 43 appendix A) You can't mess with the fuel system. So you think you can just go in any of these hangars and work on airplanes?"

That's the part that thoroughly cheesed me off.

All I said was, "You know better than that. You know ME better than that." And I turned around and walked away and don't intend to speak to him anytime soon. I went home and got my copy of the Part 43 and started reading and I'm still convinced an owner can do this but my opinion doesn't matter to the guy who signs off my log book when the real A&P stuff needs a signature.
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He might be trying to make you think like a licenced mechanic. Where you need to be able prove your interpretation with actual regs as they are written and not with what Billy Bob three hangars down thinks he might know.

He might also be annoyed that you might be taking work away from him
 
JAWS said:
He might be trying to make you think like a licenced mechanic. Where you need to be able prove your interpretation with actual regs as they are written and not with what Billy Bob three hangars down thinks he might know.

He might also be annoyed that you might be taking work away from him
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In all actuality, aircraft forums are full of Billy Bobs. That's where I got the notion that an owner could do it with a log book entry. Boo on me for not following up with more research. I own that mistake.

The other part crossed my mind but he's turning down work so I'm sure he didn't want to take 11 minutes out of his time for a primer rebuild. But your point is noted.
 
Timbeck2 said:
In all actuality, aircraft forums are full of Billy Bobs. That's where I got the notion that an owner could do it with a log book entry. Boo on me for not following up with more research. I own that mistake.

The other part crossed my mind but he's turning down work so I'm sure he didn't want to take 11 minutes out of his time for a primer rebuild. But your point is noted.
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In the end, changing primer o rings is pretty innocuous. But it could be seen as "opening the door" to doing something else not preventative, and then another and then etc.
 
Do the right thing and go back and tell him you were wrong and he was correct. It builds respect and trust.
 
Can't be, the wings are still attached. That there is a faulty chemtrail system.
 
Vaflier said:
Do the right thing and go back and tell him you were wrong and he was correct. It builds respect and trust.
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I think we both have something to learn. When a friend of mine pointed out to him later in my defense that an owner can replace a fuel line, he was "surprised."
 
TCABM said:
Where is it specifically prohibited. That’s the navy answer.
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The FAA either specifically allows, or specifically prohibits. In this case, it prohibits all except that which is allowed. Simple.
 
BTW I was about to have my primer ORings replaced due to some resistance on the the primer plunger and someone suggested spraying some silicone on shaft. Works perfect now. I swear that the 100F days we had caused the primer grease to change/move causing the resistance.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I read the whole thing. Seems that someone may have changed their tune regarding the subject. ;)

I used to be trusted to change any component on a 3 million dollar jet engine but now I can't even replace a couple of O rings? Next time, it will just get done somehow and nobody will know but the person who did it.
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When your primer works normally, why would anyone look for the person who made it that way?
 
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