Self serve vs fuel truck

tinerj

tinerj

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tinerj
I prefer self serve because . . .
On a long cross country I filled my little Fly Baby tank (12 gallons) 14 times SS without a hitch

But at the first fuel truck filling I was charged $2,300.00 for 680 gallons. It went on the charge card before the mistake was recognized (should have 6.8 gal.)

At the next fuel truck filling I was charged 5.6 gallons, should have been 5.1 gallons.

So SS 14, fuel truck 0.
 
I prefer the truck whenever it's 50 cents or less premium. I hate getting dirty fueling the plane. No one told me how filthy flying was before I started!
 
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172andyou said:
I prefer the truck whenever it's 50 cents or less premium. I have getting dirty fueling the plane. No one told me how filthy flying was before I started!
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What part of fueling your plane gets you dirty? The only time I get dirty fueling is when I crawl underneath to get to the sumps to check for water. But I do that regardless of who fuels the plane.
Sometimes the fuel nozzle handle is a little greasy, but I have gloves in the cargo area and wet wipes to clean up with afterwards. That is a small inconvenience for the money I save. And I always know if the correct amount has been charged and whether any was spilled on the wing.

But I will buy full service after a long tiring flight, or in inclement weather.
 
Self-serve every time when available. Cheaper and I don't have to worry about a line guy screwing something up.
 
You must be doing it wrong. I've added fuel from the avgas tank in my own truck beds for 25 years and haven't gotten dirty yet.
 
Last time I used the fuel truck I looked up and saw 100LL pouring over the flap onto the ground. I casually pointed that out to the fueler and he put the nozzle back in the gas hole.
 
It's not so much SS vs FS that's the deal but rather whether they will let me run the nozzle myself. The Navion is very easy to misfuel in a couple of ways. The first is that there is only one filler for the pair of wing tanks (and a small connecting tank down in the right wing root). If you start dumping fuel full bore into the right wing, it will appear to be full when in fact, there is still a lot of head space in the left tank. You need to fill it slowly (or come back and retop the tank after it settles through).

The rear tank on my plane is a different issue. There's no visual indication that it has filled. If you stick the nozzle in there full bore, you're going to take a 100LL shower when it overflows. Your options are to LISTEN carefully at the filler neck as you get close (you hear a difference in the air rushing out and the gas gurgling up the filler before it is full) or to fill slowly and watch for the first few drops out the vent line.
 
I have had fuel truck operators ground my aircraft incorrectly, overfill it, miss one of the tanks or not fill it all the way.

I have not made any of those mistakes myself.

I always visually inspect the fuel level no matter who fueled her.

I do find that each self-serve may have its own secret handshake. On one I had been trying to get fuel for a half hour when a local pilot showed me I needed to lay the nozzle on the ground for a while before pumping. It worked and I thanked him for allowing me into his clique. They did not have a fuel truck.
 
bradg33 said:
Self-serve every time when available. Cheaper and I don't have to worry about a line guy screwing something up.
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:yeahthat:

I do wonder that in states like New Jersey where you can't pump your own vehicle fuel, if it is the same deal at the airports.
 
How about the guy who fills it and spills all over your fresh wax job? Or you ask for tabs and you come out to see the vent dripping.

I SS unless it's unavailable. At my home drone, all they have is Full served. :(
 
Full serve when the FBO who also manages the hangar you rent gives you a fuel break so good it's far below the self-serve price and lower than any self-serve price on any surrounding field.
 
Vance Breese said:
I have had fuel truck operators ground my aircraft incorrectly
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Oh, that too. There's a thing on the main gear that looks real inviting on the Navion and I've seen guys clamp on to that. I point out that they've just connected to a piece of bakelite (plastic) and they've done absolutely nothing.
 
On my personal plane, self serve always, even places that don't have it, I'll tell them that I will assist them, I'll climb up to the wing and just have them hand me the hose, reason is it's a amphib, you have to scale the side of the plane like King Kong, and it's easy if you don't know what you're doing to scratch something, also ladders won't get you close enough. Safer for my plane as well as the line guy for me to do it.

For the work plane, I always have the line guys fuel it if I can.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I do wonder that in states like New Jersey where you can't pump your own vehicle fuel, if it is the same deal at the airports.
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No, it's not.

I don't let anybody else fuel my plane.
 
If my timeline is tight on a PnP trip I let the truck do it while I take care of the dogs. Sometimes the FBO discounts it for PnP flights to where the FS becomes the same price as the SS. Otherwise I prefer self serve.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I do wonder that in states like New Jersey where you can't pump your own vehicle fuel, if it is the same deal at the airports.
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The NJ law applies only to gas stations. It was passed to protect the small service station operator against the perceived threat of large self-serve gas stations crowding them out. I'm not sure it really accomplished that goal. NJ still has stations with lots of pumps and no service bays, they just have one guy running around starting the pumps.
 
I'll use self serve if I have to or if full serve is excessively expensive.

But I have a lot more billing problems and unreadable screen problems with self serve than I do with a fuel truck. It makes a problem for CAP reimbursement or for wet Hobbs rentals when I can't get a receipt 'cause the damn thing is out of paper. Which has happened twice in the last month.
 
Lately I've had issues with the local Full Service FBO the plane I rent is parked at. I'll tell them to fill it to tabs and when I check it after, it's good 3-4 gallons above tabs(tabs=17g per tank, Full=25g) on each side.

Even without the above issue I'd still rather do self serve.
 
Want to support aviation ,and aviation jobs. So if the difference is close,I will go to the truck to keep someone working. Also like to take gas whenever I go into an FBO. Very seldom have I had a problem with the truck.
 
Matthew K said:
Lately I've had issues with the local Full Service FBO the plane I rent is parked at. I'll tell them to fill it to tabs and when I check it after, it's good 3-4 gallons above tabs(tabs=17g per tank, Full=25g) on each side.

Even without the above issue I'd still rather do self serve.
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EVERY fuel truck has that problem. Stick the tanks and tell them how many gallons to put in, and you'll never have that problem again.
 
flyingron said:
It's not so much SS vs FS that's the deal but rather whether they will let me run the nozzle myself. The Navion is very easy to misfuel in a couple of ways. The first is that there is only one filler for the pair of wing tanks (and a small connecting tank down in the right wing root). If you start dumping fuel full bore into the right wing, it will appear to be full when in fact, there is still a lot of head space in the left tank. You need to fill it slowly (or come back and retop the tank after it settles through).

The rear tank on my plane is a different issue. There's no visual indication that it has filled. If you stick the nozzle in there full bore, you're going to take a 100LL shower when it overflows. Your options are to LISTEN carefully at the filler neck as you get close (you hear a difference in the air rushing out and the gas gurgling up the filler before it is full) or to fill slowly and watch for the first few drops out the vent line.
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I don't have the rear tank though the filler tube is still there. Since both require a screwdriver to open, I make sure I have the wing opened and ready, and I caution them on the filling process. The only time it really is a pain is when it's 0 out and you know you have at least 15 minutes just to fill the tank.
 
Just make sure nobody fills up your non existant. I've seen that happen.
 
In Oregon, you may pump your own Av gas but still not your car gas. I prefer SS simply because it gives me another opportunity to look things over while fueling and to avoid some of the misfueling and other horror stories I've heard about.
 
MAKG1 said:
EVERY fuel truck has that problem. Stick the tanks and tell them how many gallons to put in, and you'll never have that problem again.
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Yup. Thats what I do if I dont want it filled up. Give them numbers.
 
My latest FS experience...

"Sir, you took 31,2 gallons today"
"No I didn't"
"What do you mean?"
"I have 26 gallon tanks"
"This is what the ticket says"
"Well I don't pay for fuel your lineguy spills".
 
My home drome the fuel is the same price regardless of ss or fuel truck.

I opt for the fuel truck.
 
My home drome has no fuel.

So I can go 10 nm south for Full Serve at 3.25 if they're open and I have an hour to kill, or I can go 18 nm north for Self Serve at 3.52. It generally depends on what time it is, if I'm in a hurry and which way I'm going.
 
Hank S said:
My home drome has no fuel.

So I can go 10 nm south for Full Serve at 3.25 if they're open and I have an hour to kill, or I can go 18 nm north for Self Serve at 3.52. It generally depends on what time it is, if I'm in a hurry and which way I'm going.
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Wow. Fuel is cheap down your way.

I pay around 5.
 
The other advantage of SS is that most small airport FBOs have lousy operating hours. I have a hangar at CJR and one at my house at NC26.
CJR only has the fuel truck. Down here at NC26, I have no fuel. SVH has fuel truck and is expensive. 14A, RUQ, and MTV have self serve. IPJ has a fuel truck (reasonable). HKY has both. I normally do the self serve at KHKY.
 
My Cardinal has vortex generators so even if the fuel truck comes I'll insist on being the one holding the nozzle and keeping the hose from snagging the fins. Never had an issue but in gerenal, I SS or fill with mogas from 5-gal cans in my hangar. (yea, yea, yea, it's grounded and the battery charger is disconnected and the doors are open and I have a fire extinguisher.)
 
Nice to see you boast about violating the fire laws nine ways to Sunday. Glad you're not anywhere near my hangar.
 
flyingron said:
Nice to see you boast about violating the fire laws nine ways to Sunday. Glad you're not anywhere near my hangar.
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I've fueled up with diaphragm pumps and beer kegs before, it was all approved gear (I approved it), really as far as hazards go, not even on the radar.

Also fueled airplanes from all sorts of jerry cans, lots of backcountry/float guys do it, again the world has yet to end.

As far as damaging your plane due to someone else using a 5gal can (which was frowned upon due to $$ reasons at most airports, not "saftey"), you're waaay more likley to push your own plane into a wall while moving it than its likley to be damage due to other people's jerry can use.
 
I have a friend who destroyed an airplane while draining fuel in a hangar.
I try to learn from others mistakes.
I feel that the local fire department has more experience with fuel fires than I do so I try to follow their guidance.
I won’t fuel or drain fuel from an aircraft in the hangar.
I have a ground from the container to the aircraft.
At self-serve I am careful to ground my aircraft.
When I use a fuel truck I make certain the aircraft is correctly grounded.
 
Vance Breese said:
I have a friend who destroyed an airplane while draining fuel in a hangar.
I try to learn from others mistakes.
I feel that the local fire department has more experience with fuel fires than I do so I try to follow their guidance.
I won’t fuel or drain fuel from an aircraft in the hangar.
I have a ground from the container to the aircraft.
At self-serve I am careful to ground my aircraft.
When I use a fuel truck I make certain the aircraft is correctly grounded.
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I've seen local firefighters fill plastic cans in the back of a pick-up. Maybe follow their guidance but don't follow their example...
 
Agreed, seen several nice planes destroyed in hangar fires directly the result of fueling/defueling. This needs to be done outside.

It's illegal in most places to charge aircraft batteries in the hangar in situ.
 
flyingron said:
Nice to see you boast about violating the fire laws nine ways to Sunday. Glad you're not anywhere near my hangar.
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flyingron said:
Agreed, seen several nice planes destroyed in hangar fires directly the result of fueling/defueling. This needs to be done outside.

It's illegal in most places to charge aircraft batteries in the hangar in situ.
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I think you'd be hard pressed to prove those laws are ubiquitous or even the majority. Not saying I disagree with best practices, just that there aren't any such laws in most places.

This reads to me like it's probably an east coast thing.

What we do have is airport operations rules in signed contracts for the hangar ground lease. But not laws.

Not arguing the methodology, just the law statement. And even then, it's mostly just as a side-point that not everyone needs laws to behave. Nor do laws actually make people behave. As you've noticed.

I doubt there's many hangars that have electricity here that don't have a battery maintenance charger hooked to the aircraft in the winter months. I haven't seen one yet. I'm always a little jealous. :)
 
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