Searching for Safety Pilot in Central/Southern TX (Time build to 1500hrs)

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by ClaxStarr, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route

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    "Pilot A gets to log XC & PIC for the entire flight, while Pilot B gets to log PIC, but not XC, for the duration of A’s under the hood time (which you can make damn near the entire flight)."


    This way, Pilot A and Pilot B can switch roles for different portions of the day’s routing and yes both do not log PIC & XC for the entire portion, but both will get the benefit of logging PIC for almost the entire time, while also logging XC for half of the day’s flight time.





    Show me where it says that in 61.51(e). Over the years, the General Counsel has made it pretty clear that the person who is the Part 1 PIC (responsible for the safety of flight) retains that designation for the duration of the flight. You can't magically become PIC in mid-flight. Get real: Pilot A is under the hood; Pilot B's responsibility is collision avoidance...not flying the airplane, not navigating, not communicating...how can you relate that to being PIC?

    Bob
     
  2. Cooter

    Cooter Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Is that not exactly what this says? Pilot A = PIC for the full flight, Pilot B = PIC for portions when Pilot A is under the hood and VFR IF Pilot B is acting PIC for the flight.

     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  3. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route

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    If I were still a DE and this came up in a logbook review I would view it as suspicious. 'Nuf said.

    Bob
     
  4. EricVKX

    EricVKX Pre-Flight

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    Exactly
     
  5. Cooter

    Cooter Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Your suspicions would be based on what? I am only going on what you posted, but I don't see how else to interpret it. If what you posted is authoritative, I don't think you'd have any grounds for your suspicion.
     
  6. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    @AggieMike88 - This might be a TW question, but does AF accept BasicMed or do they want Third Class? The website isn't clear on that.
     
  7. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    Not exactly sure myself... if you get an answer from TW, let me know what he said.
     
  8. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route

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    Through use of the wayback machine I am once again a DE. Pilot B comes to me for an instrument checkride and I am reviewing his/her logbook to make sure that all of the requirements have been met. I see an entry of .4 under PIC and under Instrument but I know how long it takes to fly from Point A to Point B and it is 1.2 hours. How does Pilot B explain this? I ask Pilot B how this .4 demonstrated his/her ability to fly and navigate by instrument reference and add the answer to my overall impression of the applicant.

    Would you hire a pilot to fly in instrument conditions if the majority of his/her PIC time was spent looking out the window for traffic while someone else did the flying?

    Bob, curmudgeon mode
     
  9. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    @TangoWhiskey -- the question at hand. Does AF accept BasicMed or is Third Class the minimum medical?
     
  10. EricVKX

    EricVKX Pre-Flight

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    Why would PilotB log 0.4 for instrument ? He was acting safety pilot.
     
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  11. ClaxStarr

    ClaxStarr Filing Flight Plan

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    Mike, I'd definitely like to get in touch with her.
    I would never turn down a contact that has any idea/advice to give.
    My uncle is actually an instructor at SkyWest so I'm getting good tips from him as well.

    I'll PM you shortly.


    Bob, I think there's a disconnect here.
    The idea here is not that the roles are switching half way through the flight.
    The method is that the pilots switch roles after each leg (say 150nm per leg 4 legs a day).
    Take off, navigate, land. then switch...
    Then the other person logs the simulated time...
    The pilot B in this case would never any instrument time while being the PIC....
    Also... in my scenario, the time would be evenly distributed, so WORST case scenario, 1/2 of the PIC time would be safety pilot time... which we know would never happen over the course of 1500 hours.

    Precisely.

    I'll send you a PM as well. I don't mind flying to stinson at all... that's a fairly short hop for what I'm use to.
    I trained in C172's as well.. Cherokees are very easy to fly too... plus the low wings gets into ground effect quicker too so it makes landing easier :).
     
  12. Cooter

    Cooter Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Ok, but your argument is based on your dislike of the rule, not the rule itself. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but this seems like an issue that we should all be able to agree on (even though it's POA).

    You posted the General Council's interpretation and asked " show me where it says". From what I can see, it says exactly what you thought wasn't there. So really it comes down to what the basis is for your opinion. If the interpretation you posted is what determines the legality of logging PIC, your issue should be with the interpretation and 61.51(e) itself. Not the poor student trying to get flight time.
     
  13. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route

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    Claxxstar has clarified the situation to my satisfaction. The thing that has eluded many of the posters in this thread is that until Pilot A puts on the hood (and after s/he takes it off) Pilot B is a passenger and can log nothing. SIC? Read and comply with 61.55.

    Bob
     
  14. Cooter

    Cooter Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I don't see where any posts suggest a misunderstanding about that at all. The point in dispute was that Pilot B can't legally log PIC less than the total time for that leg.
    You quoting him:
    You responded:
    The whole point of these posts is to get to the truth of the matter. Understanding and complying with the rules is difficult enough without adding to the confusion. This guy wants to build time and he's found a legal way to do it. It's fine to say you don't like it, but it's another thing to misinterpret the rules and substitute your opinion for what's actually written.
     
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  15. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Unfortunately, TW doesn't haunt here much.... you'll have to hit him up on FB
     
  16. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    I used this thing called a telephone. Can you believe it worked?

    TW said that Angel Flight does indeed accept BasicMed. As long as you are FAA legal, that works for them for the Medical requirement.
     
  17. bobmrg

    bobmrg En-Route

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    Guilty as charged, Cooter. I misinterpreted the original situation and then ran off in all directions. I will be more circumspect in the future.

    Bob
     
  18. Cooter

    Cooter Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No worries.:)

    I just want to make sure the right info gets through. I didn't fully understand how the FAA regarded it until this thread. I appreciate your input.
     
  19. KaiGywer

    KaiGywer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I would potentially be interested in this next spring if you're still making holes in the sky. I have a lot of time in various models of PA28s, so it's a plane I know well. I'll keep an eye on this thread for when the time comes (work vacation basically...).
     
  20. danhagan

    danhagan Cleared for Takeoff

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    I own my own business, but not in aviation ... this explanation seems pretty thorough to me. Combine this with good flight skills, conservative attitude and a respect for equipment and you'd be at the top of my list.
     
  21. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    No, it's that many people doing the "building hours with a safety pilot" thing are "flying the same hour 1,000 times", or something like that. Also, remember your "resume" gets a really short scan by hiring people, at least in most industries. You need to make it clear quickly, almost instantly, that you "have the right stuff" for the job. Otherwise they are on to the next entrant. Flying as a CFI/banner tow/pipeline/whatever is well known, so no explanation needed. But 1,000 hrs of two people doing the safety pilot thing? More research is needed, so they may just move on. This is where networking helps, so they don't go to the next person's resume and understand you didn't just drone around for 1,000 hrs and not learn anything new.

    I'm not aiming to be a commercial pilot. I work in IT and can afford to fly private; I'm happy with that. I fly Angel Flight missions and my family on trips. I can tell you my time is anything but droning around.

    I'd highly recommend flying Angel Flight missions (or other volunteer flying) once you have an instrument rating and the hours needed. You get a variety of flying experience and you can write it off on your taxes. Depending upon what your wife earns that can be about as helpful cost-wise as doing the two pilot flying. Plus it's a great feeling helping others.
     
  22. Cherokee Hourbuilder

    Cherokee Hourbuilder Filing Flight Plan

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    It's IFR certified and a pretty smooth bird.
    I'm building time to 1500 and putting 100-140 hours a month on it and I'm looking for someone to pay for gas (pro-rata split costs).
    We would switch off going under the hood on each leg in order to both log PIC time.
    I've been pulling the power back at altitude and flying at 85-90mph at 2300rpm and gettting 6-6.5 gph which comes to about $20-25/hr flight time.

    I'm located in north San Antonio, TX and don't mind flying a bit to pick anyone up each day.

    Just some thoughts off the cuff: You live in an area with plenty of thermals (perhaps more in a few months than now, obviously). Why not flying the glider instead of towing it? 8 hrs per day, no mx, just one aerotow to pay and you finally get a real sport and purpose (that is not to lower the training value of multiple legs with IR approaches etc, but as complimentary training.... balloons count as well, even dual, if that were of any interest to you :)). Or you make the CFI/ CFII and just teach in your own a/c from the right. Might be 1800 - 2000 $ insurance but then your student will pay for everything. Take two students, give them a rate of say 60 $ and fly like batshit crazy.
     
  23. RennyK

    RennyK Filing Flight Plan

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    are you still interested in a Safety Pilot @CherokeeHourBuilder?
     
  24. ClaxStarr

    ClaxStarr Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi Renny, unfortunately I sold the plane last month and and CFI/CFII’ing now.
     
  25. CC268

    CC268 Final Approach

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    Wow you did that quick! Wish I was on your timeline!
     
  26. ClaxStarr

    ClaxStarr Filing Flight Plan

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    Haha yea... I flew a lot.. I found a few rotor guys that needed fixed wing PIC time and just hit the grind...
    @700hrs now. 6 checkrides in 13 months lol.
     
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  27. Cherokee Hourbuilder

    Cherokee Hourbuilder Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi, since you addressed the question to me, she is out of annual right now and I work as a freelancer to kick off a flight school. After my rtw trip, that is ;-). So right now the logistics and time would most likely prevent me from flying with you. BUT, a friend shall assist with the annual in August and fly around with her. Could you pm me some details about your flying background, hours etc.? I could potentially get you in touch with my friend who needs some odd 50 hrs for his commercial, but mostly wanted to buzz around, do his BFR/ IPC and become current again.

    I don't log on to the forum very often, sorry for the belated reply!