Searching for Oil Temp Thermistor

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by kontiki, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki
    The Oil Temp sender on my Grumman Tiger is bad. It's a Stewart Warner 362-EW. The part (or specs) are not listed anywhere. Anyone got any idea where I can find one?
     
  2. Gary

    Gary En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    3,214
    Location:
    Harleysville, PA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Gary
    Possible source, not cheap! Worth a call to find out details.

    http://www.fuelsenders.com/site/898219/product/362EW

    Gary
     
  3. flyingriki

    flyingriki Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingriki
  4. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    8,496
    Location:
    Other side of the world
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rotor&Wing
    Do a google search on the information you have.
     
  5. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki

    I actually searched all of website sources suggested before posting, and a dozen more. So far no straight up P/N match. This is another one of those problem parts for a vintage airplane.






    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  6. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    8,496
    Location:
    Other side of the world
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Rotor&Wing
    Contact Airparts of Lockhaven they can help you with this.
     
  7. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,492
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weirdjim

    And we know this how?

    Jim
    .
    .
     
  8. Doggtyred

    Doggtyred En-Route

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,704
    Location:
    Houston area, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave
    Call David Fletcher with Fletch-Air in Texas.. google Grumman gang or AYA (american yankee association) and you will find numerous links or references to find him. His family ran and maintained a large cheetah/tiger rental fleet in Houston for years and years until his parents retired and David relocated to the Hill Country in Central Texas.
     
  9. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki
    Good question Jim.

    I believe I ruined it. I had all the cowls off to address a battery leak and while I was in there, among other things I re-routed some wiring (the oil temp wiring was one of them). When I went to re-secure the wire back on the the terminal post, the post was spinning. And, when I did my engine run, the needle didn't move.

    I did make sure I had continuity, but really didn't try inserting a 28.5 ohm resistor to see if it indicated red line (ref the AMM). I could fairly easily bread board up a 1W 28.5 ohm resistor and check it. Given that it's starting to look like it's going to be a PIA to get I should probably do that.

    This was the first time I had the cowl off and I found all manner of little things I didn't like:missing fasteners, wires tie wrapped to the engine mount, wire connectors tie wrapped to a hose, bolts that weren't long enough to go all the way through lock nuts, wiring everywhere.
     
  10. flyingriki

    flyingriki Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingriki
    I hope you'll find that this isn't brain surgery and a sender is a sender when it come to most simple instruments like oil temp, particularly in older planes. I may be wrong....

    I checked mine by buying a long stem thermometer and stuck it in the dipstick hole when I shut down. It matched my instrument so I knew it was correct.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  11. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki
    One of the local guys on the field offered to lend me one to get me going. At that point, neither one of us had any idea what the temp rating actually is. I can't see just throwing any old thing in there.

    I have rented planes for flight training that always indicated too hot. They had the wrong sender in there to keep it in service until they got the right sensor. Most training flights don't last that long, I'm sure it's one of those things.

    I believe the 362's are all 100-240 deg F, with variations in physical sizes (per a survey of old Stewart Warner Catalogs). I pulled it out of the airplane today, measured it, checked thread pitch etc. I haven't looked up NPTF dimensions yet.

    I can find 362-XX, none -EW. I'm sure this will work out. If I can find one that will fit for the right temp range in another airplane parts catalog, I believe I can just use it Ref AC AC 23-27 Parts and Materials Substitution for Vintage Aircraft.
     
  12. flyingriki

    flyingriki Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingriki
    So....if it's Stewart Warner why not match it up with one at the auto parts store and check it with a thermometer. Might save you time and money?
     
  13. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki

    Well so far I haven't seen any SW temp sensor that operates in the correct temp range with the correct physical dimensions to fit like the original. I'm not anxious to use an untested config that involves extra adapters and no gasket.

    The other thing for me is to explore first hand what the options are for maintaining a small GA airplane. I'm an engineer at an airline in my day job. I'd like to make sense out of things if I can.

    My personal view is that most FAA policies with regards to engineering make sense. It's breathtaking how many people in the business take the "cargo cult" approach.

    With regards to auto parts, a part can look the same and just be a piece of junk. FAA MIDO rules try to control that.

    On my pad I skip a lot of background explanations because it's a poor typing tool.

    As a last resort I can buy the approved JPI temp kit and upgrade my installation. Sometimes that's the only reasonable answer for obsolescence.





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  14. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,492
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weirdjim
    .....
     
  15. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,492
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weirdjim
    .....
     
  16. mondtster

    mondtster Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,913
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    mondtster
    Jim, I'd have to double check but I thought there were some temperature sensors used on Lycomings that have straight threads and a crush washer under them rather than a pipe thread. I may be wrong, I haven't looked at a temperature sensor that closely for a while.
     
  17. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki
    Without all details in a 12V circuit, 28ohms alone would require greater than 1 Watt (work out the math) and AMM recommendations for performing same test on another system said 1 Watt and it worked as advertised.

    Once my work week starts it's easier to check specs than to get to a hardware store. There are several pipe thread specs, NPTF dry thread was specifically designed for fuel/ oil systems with no thread dope. I also like looking at specs because I usually learn something, and all of this is part of exploring life for me.

    My installation has a crush gasket. I recognize the old S&W parts were the COTS selections of the day. I personally don't like the one size does all kludge of adapters and sleeves with mystery threads made from mystery metal for the caveat emperor world of auto parts.

    The thought of a solid plug with the RTD inside is more assuring for oil system. Night IFR in the clouds; do I want to deal with the possibility there might be oil on my windshield? Nah.

    I knew this was a regulated industry when I bought this thing. I've made a decent living from it. I'm ok trying to work within it. Doing my own work puts most options within my reach. Other pilot owners warned me the first year would be a tough one, especially on my first airplane.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  18. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,492
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weirdjim
    .....
     
  19. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki
    Jim, I participate in GA for a hobby. Your whole presentation reeks of someone that has a problem. I have no time for you.
     
  20. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,492
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weirdjim
    You are correct. I've been trying to teach a pig to sing, and all it does is frustrate me and annoys the pig.

    I'm sure a callow novice engineer has no time for somebody who has spent nearly 60 years crafting his trade in the profession.

    Go build your houses with a micrometer. The world needs a good belly laugh.

    Jim

    .

     
  21. flyingriki

    flyingriki Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingriki
    You're wasting your breath Jim. Another rookie owner know-it-all....... :dunno:

    Any wonder the airlines can't make money....?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
    Paulie likes this.
  22. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,492
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA (KGOO)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weirdjim
    Well, he's in Memphis, so I suspect the "airline" is FedEx. Even a clod like this can't screw up the money machine that FedEx has built.

    Jim
    .
    .
    .
     
  23. Doggtyred

    Doggtyred En-Route

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,704
    Location:
    Houston area, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave
    I saw this coming back at post #7...
     
  24. Kiddo's Driver

    Kiddo's Driver Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,403
    Location:
    Fayetteville, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  25. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki
  26. kontiki

    kontiki Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,036
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kontiki
    I couldn't care less. Sounds like he's suffering from something. Too much for me.

    I've learned to try to stick to the issues. I really am busy, and usually knee deep in thorny issues. I do appreciate everyone's ideas. Final call is mine.
     
  27. Ryan Harris

    Ryan Harris Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rcharris
    I was able to get in contact with Stewart Warner and I have the spec sheet for the 362EW and a more modern 362AD-J sender. Can anyone host them on the forum?
     
  28. SkyDog58

    SkyDog58 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    10,791
    Location:
    My own special place.
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Old dog w/o new tricks
  29. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    17,745
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Display name:
    Because with only 4 posts he can’t post an image.
     
  30. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    730
    Location:
    Naples fl
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    paulie
    Conehead, that explains a lot. I had one that couldn't understand why the antenna screws were stripping out. When I asked what size apex tip he was using I got a blank stare. When AA deleted avionics guys on the line a lot of problems went away.
    I have no prob with avionics guys, just the ones that bid that department to hide their mechanical incompetance. Good spark chasers are hard to find.
     
  31. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    730
    Location:
    Naples fl
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    paulie
    Get one that fits the engine, I doubt Grumman built that.
     
  32. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,673
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dan Thomas
    Pipe threads. There are tapered pipe threads: NPT, National Pipe Taper, and NPS, National Pipe Straight. I have changed these senders many times but have never meaasured them to see what thread they are. They DO use a crush gasket but those threads are straight and could easily be 3/8" NPS. Remember that the dimension for pipe thread is the nominal inside diameter, not the outside diameter as in most other thread applications. A 3/8" pipe thread is around 5/8" OD.

    This place implies it's a 5/8"-18 thread, not pipe: http://www.parts4aircraft.com/westach-oil-temp-sender-5-8-18-unf-c2x9383439

    3/8" pipe is also 18 TPI. Howver, you don't want to mix them up. Their thread diameters are not the same.
     
  33. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    730
    Location:
    Naples fl
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    paulie
    1/8 npt
     
  34. Ryan Harris

    Ryan Harris Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    rcharris
    The one in my AA1B is 5/8-18 UNF not pipe thread. A few more posts and I guess i'll have the privileges to post the spec sheet from S-W. Just need a 3/8 NPT to 5/8-18 UNF adapter..