SDF - Line up and wait waiver in effect....

Discussion in 'Change to my Frequency...' started by POA_Newbie, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. POA_Newbie

    POA_Newbie Filing Flight Plan

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    I was hoping someone could expand on what a, "Line up and wait waiver".....is?

    General section on SDF's 10-9A....
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  2. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    In section 3-9-3 of JO 7110.65, there are LUAW restrictions at intersections. Section g) provides condistions to waive the restrictions.

    Given the notam states SS/SR and names specific RW/intersection pairs, my take is that LUAW restrictions at the named intersections are waived. You can get LUAW instructions at one of these intersection at night because the RW is departure only.

    g. An aircraft may be authorized to line up and wait at an intersection between sunset and sunrise under the following conditions:
    1. The procedure must be approved by the appropriate Director, Terminal Operations (service area) as well as the Director, Terminal Safety and Operations Support.
    2. The procedure must be contained in a facility directive.
    3. The runway must be used as a departure−only runway.
    4. Only one aircraft at a time is permitted to line up and wait on the same runway.
    5. Document on FAA Form 7230−4, Daily Record of Facility Operation, the following: “LUAW at INT of RWY (number) and TWY (name) IN EFFECT” when using runway as a departure−only runway. “LUAW at INT of RWY (number) and TWY (name) SUSPENDED” when runway is not used as a departure−only runway.
     
  3. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    UPS hub. Gotta get those planes constantly moving at 3am.

    I've only gone in and out of there during daylight hours, but have gotten the LUAW on 17L/35R.
     
  4. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yep, this dates back to 1991 at LAX. A commuter was in position and hold at an intersection when ATC cleared a 737 to land. Subsequent NTSB research showed it would have been near impossible to make out the holding aircraft.

    Of course, if you are careful and there's no arrivals, you can do it. This is handy on runways where the taxiway doesn't quite go all the way to the end, so line up and wait is going to be at an intersection unless there's some back taxiing involved.
     
  5. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9108.pdf

    There was a nationwide ban on position and hold for awhile while they were sorting things out. Ironically, LAX was the first airport to make procedures and get a waiver to do it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  6. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    SDF’s 10-9A ??

    EDIT: It’s a Jeppesen Chart number
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  7. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    The ban on position and hold happened after an Asiana 747 went around at the last second with a Southwest 737 on the runway, during the day. Waivers started shortly after that and require certain staffing levels.
     
  8. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah. That one did do the nation wide ban on LUAW and LAX was the first to get a waiver. The USair Skywest thing was about night position and hold. I mixed the two incidents together in my memory. I can’t say for sure that LAX was the first to get a waiver on that but it wouldn’t surprise me.
     
  9. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    I wouldn't be surprised. LAX badly needs it most of the time.
     
  10. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    For more background and info on that go here, paragraph 10-3-8
    https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/7210.3BB_FAC_Bsc_w_Chg_1_2_Errata_dtd_7-16-20.pdf
     
  11. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Oh yeah. We’re you flying at MYF when the LUAW ban was on? That must have really slowed things down.
     
  12. JVerb

    JVerb Pre-Flight

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    New to the forum, and just earned my PP this week. But, I'm very familiar with SDF; I'm one of the engineers responsible for designing the cul-de-sac on 17R, and have worked on almost every piece of pavement out there. Does this waiver possibly have something to do with aircraft that are using the full TODA and having to back-taxi for the 17R departure?
     
  13. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The waiver allows Line Up And Wait at night, which is prohibited without a waiver. The waiver allows it at taxiway AB or B.
     
  14. WDD

    WDD En-Route

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    I never really understood line up and wait. You'd think you wouldn't save that much time, but sitting on an active runway never seemed like a good idea.
     
  15. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    As soon as the other plane starts its take off roll, they can roll you into place. 30-60 seconds here, 30-60 seconds there adds up over the course of a push or 10.
     
  16. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It increases the capacity a lot at busy airports. On final are plane A and plane B. When A crosses the threshold, or intersection the departure is at, the departure gets put on the runway. Now when A clears the runway, departure can roll. B then lands. If A has to clear the runway before the departure can even taxi on to the runway, B has to spaced a lot further behind A.
     
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