Screwed by Hertz

You can check, but I believe Purco also covers some Alamo franchises as well.
 
They cover Avis, National, Alamo, Thrifty, and Dollar. I never had any issue with Avis, so I believe this could be a Rapid City Hertz thing. Anyhow, this is the damage that costs above 1000 dollars to repair:

http://i.imgur.com/nmSRa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tEDnZ.jpg

I am not an auto repair professional, but wouldn't a simple dent puller fix this dent without a paint job?

Thanks
 
I think you are going in the wrong direction. You should be saying: I did not damage the car, Hertz was negligent in failing to inspect the car in my presence, they cannot prove the damage did not occur after it's return' etc. Then, you should say that a dent shop could fix it for less than 100 and an hour's work. Offer them $200, which is a reasonable offer considering that you didn't damage the car in the first place. Tell them if they don't accept your offer you will file a complaint with the state's attorney general, Hertz corporate, the bbb, your local news affiliates, etc. Be sure to mention that you will include the names of all of the Purco employees that y ou have spoken with. They prefer to do business over the phone, rather than commit anything in writing, so I would limit all communications to mail sent with a return receipt.

Even though they have cashed my certified check, they are still trying to call me, saying they are reasonable people. Not sure why they're still calling except to try to get me to drop the complaints. However, this is simply a scam, and not personal, so I will be
satisfied when I get a return check from them, and not until then.
 
AcroBoy said:
I think you are going in the wrong direction. You should be saying: I did not damage the car, Hertz was negligent in failing to inspect the car in my presence, they cannot prove the damage did not occur after it's return' etc. Then, you should say that a dent shop could fix it for less than 100 and an hour's work.
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We agree, right up until...

Offer them $200, which is a reasonable offer considering that you didn't damage the car in the first place.
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No. A reasonable offer if you didn't damage the car in the first place is to give them NO money, tell them they can go to hell, and if they try to continue extorting money that...

you will file a complaint with the state's attorney general, Hertz corporate, the bbb, your local news affiliates, etc. Be sure to mention that you will include the names of all of the Purco employees that y ou have spoken with.
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I pretty much mention "The car was not damaged during my rental" in every email I send. I already filed complaints and my communication with them is confined to email. However, they have not been very negotiable as they were with you, i.e. I have not received calls asking me to drop the complaints or telling me they are a decent company. I am just worried about my credit score, it is something that will affect me for the rest of my life and I keep thinking they and a thousand dollars are not worth it.
 
victor said:
I pretty much mention "The car was not damaged during my rental" in every email I send. I already filed complaints and my communication with them is confined to email. However, they have not been very negotiable as they were with you, i.e. I have not received calls asking me to drop the complaints or telling me they are a decent company. I am just worried about my credit score, it is something that will affect me for the rest of my life and I keep thinking they and a thousand dollars are not worth it.
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First, your credit score will not affect you for the rest of your life. 7 years, max, most likely less when you follow #2:

Second, you can leave comments on any entry on your credit score. You can also repeatedly dispute an item on your credit, causing the creditor to spend money defending it.

Third, you can sue them for this. I'm not for filing frivilous lawsuits, but I'd find a bunch of different jurisdictions and sue them in all of them. Sue them for like $50 or something ridiculous. Make their lives hell
 
Seven years is a long time if you want to buy a house, car, or get a credit card.
 
AcroBoy said:
Seven years is a long time if you want to buy a house, car, or get a credit card.
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Try having no credit history in the country. I moved here 3 years ago from Canada where I had excellent credit. Here in the US, it's as if I was just born yesterday.

Doesn't take that long to get credit established, and a single blip from some maroon in SD is not going to have that big of an effect on your credit for any substantial length of time.
 
Ah!!! Now they "want to talk over the phone."

I will update soon (of course, won't take their call..)
 
I offered them $50, no lost days, and no fees. They will not accept. Next week they will call with a counter offer. Offer them a little more than you initial offer. They will again not agree. Third week they will call back, and accept something close to your initial offer. At this point I sent them what we had agreed upon less around $100, which they cashed. This was when the calls started asking me to withdraw the complaints.

Purco has had six complaints with the ag, and hertz eight. Nationwide it is a huge problem.
 
By the way, I negotiated over the phone, but still pursued all formal actions with them in writing. The SD AG was somewhat encouraging when I discussed with him yesterday. You may want to wait to pay them until you see Purco's response to the BBB and the State AG. The biggest point is that they did not inspect the car immediately upon your return in your presence, and cannot prove the damage was inflicted by you or possibly someone else, like one of their employees. When did you fly into RAP, and what FBO did you use?
 
I told them I won't talk on the phone and will have to do this over email. Not only that, but have you seen their parking? It is publicly accessible and there is no one around. I flew in August and used Delta
 
Got a followup from the BBB- Purco chose to not respond. No surprise there, since they already have a C- rating. Hoping to hear more from the SD AG. I'm hoping that the more the public is aware of their scams, perhaps this information will go viral and something will ultimately get done to expose them.
 
What does it mean if Purco refuses to respond to BBB? I have not heard from SD AG yet. Yes, I hope so too and given how obvious their scam is I would not be surprised if they are flooded with complaints
 
The lack of response to the BBB simply means what is says, but might have an adverse effect on their rating. The best hope is with the SD AG. However, since they are a Utah company, I am not sure how much clout a call from an out of state AG will mean.
 
Way back in this thread someone asked about the benefit provided by some credit cards. I said that I was just making a claim and would post the results.
skidoo said:
Just wondering, I've been looking for a new business Credit Card. Some claim to provide damage waiver coverage if you pay for the rental with their card. Has anyone actually benefited by this CC damage waiver coverage? In other words, can you just send the damage bill to the CC company?
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First let me say that my situation is different than either AcroBoy's or Victor's. The car was damaged overnight in a hotel parking lot when I clearly had possession of it. The left side of the rear bumper had a scrape and a dent about the size of a quarter. I know it wasn't there when I rented it and didn't try to claim otherwise. Although I often rent cars for work this was a personal rental which I paid for with a Chase Mastercard. When I returned the car to Enterprise at Newark Airport they noticed the damage. They charged me an additional $250 which is the amount of my personal car insurance deductible. I also filled out some paperwork for them.

I made a claim through Mastercard. They will pay the cost up to the amount which would be covered by other insurance, which is my case is the $250 deductible. I got the check yesterday, which is about 5 weeks after the occurrence.

I also got a bill for the balance of the damage from Enterprise. It comes to $336.06 which includes the balance of the damage repair, 3 days loss of use and a $50 administrative fee. I turned all this into my insurance company, State Farm. Luckily I had added coverage for loss of use on rental cars about a year ago. I had spoken to the agent at that time about what coverage I had on rental cars because I knew that I was going to be renting quite frequently for personal use in the future. He had suggested that coverage and it only cost $5/month so I thought, what the heck I'll get it. I don't know how my State Farm claim is going to turn out but they didn't give me any indication that it would be a problem. I'll let them fight it out with Enterprise if they think the charges are too much.
 
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Another thing to remember in your negotiations. Most of the big rental companies have repair shops under contract to do their work. They pay lower labor rates, and discounted parts prices on just about everything. I don't deal with the company in question, but I do with others. If you end up paying anything, ask for the actual repair bill, NOT the estimated damage. You will be shocked at the difference. Can't say who, but I've seen some of the claims when they order parts. Small markups on parts, and restricted labor times and hourly rates. Plus 45 to 60 days to pay, leaving others to pay interest on their repair bills.
 
imQ said:
Another thing to remember in your negotiations. Most of the big rental companies have repair shops under contract to do their work. They pay lower labor rates, and discounted parts prices on just about everything. I don't deal with the company in question, but I do with others. If you end up paying anything, ask for the actual repair bill, NOT the estimated damage. You will be shocked at the difference. Can't say who, but I've seen some of the claims when they order parts. Small markups on parts, and restricted labor times and hourly rates. Plus 45 to 60 days to pay, leaving others to pay interest on their repair bills.
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Your comments are valid.. but.

Any company running this type of scam will just fabricate a fake repair bill to perpetuate their scam... I am also betting the car they charged you for being 'out of service' was actually still in the rental fleet and producing income.

My guess is a VERY complete audit by the IRS will uncover all their shady doings. All it takes is an simple phone call to the tax cheat tip line.

Don't get mad....................... get even.:cool2::cool2:
 
N801BH said:
Don't get mad....................... get even.:cool2::cool2:
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Or as one of the parents in my son's Boy Scout Troop would warn the Scouts when they were thinking of dunking his boat while we were floating down the Sacramento River - "I don't get even, I get ahead!" :D:D:D
 
They replied to the BBB complaint, of course I did not accept their boilerplate response. They cited the contract and that the claim is legit, they further explained the cost by mentioning it took 3 days in the car shop (eq. to 3 days of lost rental). Total B.S. I replied mentioning that the contract does not cover the car AFTER returning it, which could have been easily damaged by their employees OR the public (since their parking is public). Plus, although that explains the cost but does not explain why 3 days was necessary to fix it. I calculated what it would cost if i flew to rapid city, rented the same car for 2 hours, bought a high end dent puller, fixed it, and returned home (~$700 including a meal, a lot less than what they want me to pay)

If I am going down, I am not going down easy.
 
The gave a lengthy response to the BBB, and I also received a lengthy reply from the SD AG. They did not reply to my position that Hertz was negligent in failing to provide a secure environment for the car, and that they were not able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I in fact had damaged the car. They were also negligent in not providing an opportunity to inspect the car immediately upon return. I also pointed out to the investigator that the Colorado supreme court case brought out the fact that the Hertz franchise and Purco shared any profits beyond the actual costs of repairs. Although I sent them money, it was under duress, since they verbally and in writing threatened to damage my credit score. Finally, I noted their C- rating on the BBB, and the fact that the internet was full of complaints about other similar practices perpetrated by Purco.
 
AcroBoy said:
that they were not able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I in fact had damaged the car.
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If this went to court, they would not have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had damaged the car. The standard for a civil case is "with a preponderance of evidence", also known as "more likely than not".

Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for criminal trials.
 
I was wondering about the standard when I wrote the last. Have done a number of depos as an expert, and the phrase seems to be"within a reasonable degree of medical certainty". South Dakota has only had a handful of complaints against Purco over the years, but a Google search reveals this to be a widespread practice throughout many states.

My attorney advised me to pay them, which I did under duress, since they verbally and in writing threatened my credit score. Yet, I did not damage their car, and even if I had, should not be subject to excessive charges beyond the actual expenses and loss of use.

I forget the legal phrase, but can anyone help with the terminology regarding an unenforcable or unreasonable contract? Perhaps this angle is worth looking at in more detail.
 
AcroBoy said:
I forget the legal phrase, but can anyone help with the terminology regarding an unenforcable or unreasonable contract? Perhaps this angle is worth looking at in more detail.
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Are you looking for "Contract of adhesion"?

I believe it's a contract that is so one-sided as to be unconscionable, as well as unequal bargaining power, where you have no opportunity to bargain for the terms.

From what I recall, the early (1930s) automobile warranties were found to be contracts of adhesion. The consumer was unable to negotiate the terms, and the terms required returning the vehicle to Detroit for warranty work.
 
Steve Foley said:
If this went to court, they would not have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had damaged the car. The standard for a civil case is "with a preponderance of evidence", also known as "more likely than not".

Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for criminal trials.
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For Jim, this is correct..

Altho the SD AG should have no problem getting a conviction for extotion, fraud and if Jims check crossed state lines during this shakedown then federal charges will apply. This issue needs to be pushed along the legal path to remedy what looks like a clear case of felony fraud. IMHO.
 
The problem is that SD has had less than ten complaints against Purco and Hertz each over the years, not really a pattern. Nationwide, an internet search does suggest a pattern, usually perpetrated against out of state renters that have no opportunity to evaluate the claimed damage, and therefore no recourse other than paying. Legal fees would quickly add up to more than the claimed damages, so Purco flies along under the radar.

They hide under the contract, which states that the renter is responsible for all fees and loss of use associated with damage. The problem arises when such fees are arbitrary, excessive, and as documented in the Colorado supreme court decision, used to generate further profits for both Purco and the franchise.

The bigger questions are: how do we alert other unsuspecting renters, and how do we protect ourselves in the future?
 
I feel for you man! They did the same thing to me in Europe, ofcourse I was back in the states by the time they tried to screw me so I had a hard time disputing it. The best thing to do is post post post everytime this happens and take away their business and give it to other companies.
 
AcroBoy said:
The problem is that SD has had less than ten complaints against Purco and Hertz each over the years, not really a pattern. Nationwide, an internet search does suggest a pattern, usually perpetrated against out of state renters that have no opportunity to evaluate the claimed damage, and therefore no recourse other than paying. Legal fees would quickly add up to more than the claimed damages, so Purco flies along under the radar.

They hide under the contract, which states that the renter is responsible for all fees and loss of use associated with damage. The problem arises when such fees are arbitrary, excessive, and as documented in the Colorado supreme court decision, used to generate further profits for both Purco and the franchise.

The bigger questions are: how do we alert other unsuspecting renters, and how do we protect ourselves in the future?
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10 complaints does not surprise me... The vast majority of people are passive and true suckers. Just look at the turn outs at election time. I will tell every one I know about this incident and hopefully it might make some impact on Purco and the firms they represent. This would be a great story for 60 minutes, 20/20 Dateline any of the other investigative programs. :fcross:

Ben.
 
It has been ages, have not heard from them at all after filing the BBB and SG AD complaints. Also I noted that I am in touch with a lawyer regarding all matters and all communication has to be either through email or I will record it if over phone.
 
AcroBoy said:
The bigger questions are: how do we alert other unsuspecting renters, and how do we protect ourselves in the future?
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I was happy with the service I got from both the credit card company for the deductible and State Farm for the balance. See post #136 of this thread for my story. I was glad that I had the additional UNOC coverage which costs about $5/month. Supposedly you can add it and remove it whenever you want if you don't rent too often but I make a personal rental about once a month so I leave it in effect all the time.
 
I think they failed to respond to the BBB complaint after my counter-reply to their statement on BBB. BBB closed it as satisfied!! The company is currently working on the complaint I put in AG... I have not received any reply for months, do I assume that the matter is settled and they no longer ask for the money from me?

Thanks
 
Without going through seven pages this thread, let me ask, how are these yoyos going to ruin your credit? Are they going to call up someone, whoever that might be, and tell them you won't pay for some supposed damage to a rental car so they want your credit ruined? How does that work? I know a lot of people like to throw that around for intimidation, but I've always wondered how they do that. Can anyone ruin your credit? Do they just call them up, or do they send them an e-mail? I just get mad when someone tries to bully someone else, and threatening to ruin their credit if they don't pay for some disputed damage is just that. I would tell them I'm done talking to them. The second thing is, who doesn't have credit? I don't know how many people I've known who get a car repossessed by the bank, and two months later they have another one 0% down and 0% interest for 60 months. I'm sure there are people out there who can't buy a house, groceries, or get a Sam's Club card because they have bad credit, but they really have to work hard at it to get there.
 
victor said:
YES! VICTORY! Claim dropped!
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Sweet! If you don't mind, can you detail what it took so that others may be able to win as well? Might be worthwhile to avoid the "Just pay" rhetoric that was going around in here in the future.
 
SkyHog said:
Sweet! If you don't mind, can you detail what it took so that others may be able to win as well? Might be worthwhile to avoid the "Just pay" rhetoric that was going around in here in the future.
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I'm betting that at some point it became cheaper to just drop the claim than to continue to pursue it. What with (expensive) attornies and all....
 
Sure! Finding this thread was part of the motivation behind fighting their scam. First of all, I denied causing the damage I then explained to them that there is a flaw in their claim (being that their parking is public and anyone could have done this AFTER I returned the car. Also, none of their employees was there to inspect it once I returned it). Then, I talked about how ridiculous the fee was, it could have been easily fixed for under 200 dollars in a few hours. I persevered and they said I had to pay. I told them I will seek legal advice and that any communication between us will be archived for this purpose. After so, I filed a complaint with the BBB and the AG. They replied to the BBB claim but I referenced the flaw again. I let them sit on it for a few months then pinged them recently and they said they dropped the damage claim for customer service reasons.

If you did not cause the damage do not fall for their scam, they might reference some obscure contract or law but do not let it get to you or they will rip you off.
 
I think the only defense is to walk in the office while it's open and grab an employee by the collar to inspect the car and sign off in writing that it's undamaged.



Which is very sad.
 
mikea said:
I think the only defense is to walk in the office while it's open and grab an employee by the collar to inspect the car and sign off in writing that it's undamaged.



Which is very sad.
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Although it's hardly fool-proof, pretty much all cell phones come with cameras now. Also, if you're planning on renting a car, many have compact cameras, too - just throw that in your bag.

Actual evidence goes a lot farther than swearing that the car wasn't damaged when you dropped it off; it will take less than a minute to walk around the car taking pictures, and let an employee see you do it when you drop the car off....
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Although it's hardly fool-proof, pretty much all cell phones come with cameras now. Also, if you're planning on renting a car, many have compact cameras, too - just throw that in your bag.

Actual evidence goes a lot farther than swearing that the car wasn't damaged when you dropped it off; it will take less than a minute to walk around the car taking pictures, and let an employee see you do it when you drop the car off....
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I can't see how that would help unless there was something in the picture that identified the time/date/location in an indisputable manner. Otherwise the agency could simply claim you took the pictures before damaging their car.
 
I had not seen this thread in a while. Congratulations! I did in fact write letters to the BBB as well as the AG. They countered with the same arguments, but perhaps two complaints at the same time made them take a look and think twice. I ended up paying them because of the cost of an attorney as well as the risk to them damaging my credit scores. My only suggestion is that you do a free credit check on yourself with at least two of the big agencies and make sure they did not screw you anyway.
 
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