Savings of Owner assisted maintenance

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by JCranford, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    Klamth Fall, OR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Smith
    Manufacturer suggested TBO covers inspection interval of engine components such as crankshafts, camshafts, thrust bearings etc., unless you have good reason to believe there is an issue with that component. Yes, you are trusting the established manufacturer's reccomedations concerning those particular engine components when flying over water or mountainous terrain. Also, unless the aircraft owner has a watchful eye over his shoulder when "performing" his annual, he's really trusting him/herself to accomplish a satisfactory annual. Owners that do their own automobile maintenance like tune-ups, lubrication, brakes, tire rotation, plug changes etc., are more likely to do a better job than a non-mechanically inclined aircraft owner whose only motivation is saving money on an annual.
     
  2. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    Wheels, are you going to remove the tires to thuroughly inspect them?
     
  3. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    Would you treat an airplane that only had 5 hrs and 2 landings since last annual the same as one that had 200 hrs and 100 landings? Do you even consider it? Maybe that's where common sense should be applied.
     
  4. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    29,233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    It really doesn't matter how much usage the aircraft has has, less is worse than more, Simply because the electrolyses occurring during the year.
    So it's simply a matter are you going to do the inspection or not?
     
  5. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    29,233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Maybe in your mind, that would be good enough.
    I want to see them, too many times I have found the owner changed the bearing to ones that are not the correct part number or manufacturer.
     
  6. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    Appreciate you going above and beyond.
     
  7. Salty

    Salty En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,692
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    electrolyses? Is that multiple electrolysis's? Please to explain how electrolysis factors into this conversation? I'm guessing you mean corrosion?
     
    Paulie likes this.
  8. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    LOL, big words give him the most trouble, everybody knows he cant spell... maybe he means galvanic action?
     
  9. Brad Smith

    Brad Smith Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    Klamth Fall, OR
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Smith
    Why not fully inspect items like wheel bearings during an annual that are easily accessed? Only laziness or perceived cost savings would be a factor for skipping this task. Sure, you'll get a little greasy performing some of these tasks that may seem unimportant to the owner/pilot. If you're not up to it let an A&P do it for you.
    BTW- a cracked bearing race that fails on takeoff/rollout could result in a lot more $$$ spent than a simple inspection performed during an annual.
     
  10. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    730
    Location:
    Naples fl
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    paulie
    I was being a smartass, you apparently didn't catch that. Aircraft manufacturers usually have a 100 hour checklist, following that is a good practice. If a owner wants me to go nuts looking for stuff I'll be happy to oblige, but it going to cost him.
    When I worked for Seaborne that had twin otters on floats my supervisor thought he was punishing me by having me write up everything I could find on a airplane. He took the book away from me after 300 faults found and yes I kept a copy do the couldn't be magically disappeared. That one was down for a few days.
    As far as your wheel bearings, are you neglecting the preventive maintenance? That is something that should be done routinely as preventive. A lube item. Check your lube procedures in the AMM.
     
  11. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    29,233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    What do you call it when two dissimilar metals are held in contact for long term, and there is a transfer of metal leaving pitting on both parts?

    no matter what you call it, it happens in wheel bearings rather quickly, when they are not rotated often.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  12. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    29,233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    https://www.quora.com/How-do-two-di...-without-welding-Copper-and-steel-for-example

    quote from article
    Basically you get a di-electric process. And exchange of electrons, a simple battery process. This corrodes both metals, degrading them and making them weaker.

    There are two forms of this action, one is a galvanic action and the other is a basic electrolysis, take your pick, the results are the same.
     
  13. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    29,233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Maybe if you understood the basic difference between galvanic action and electrolysis you would realize what happens in a wheel bearing is electrolysis not galvantic. a galvanic cell requires a anode and a cathode, you don't have that in a wheel bearing, because both metals in contact are the same.
     
  14. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    Call it what you want. Electrochemical, elrctrolytic, bimetalic, whatever. But one metal is the anode and the other is a cathode. What's a sacrificial anode?
     
  15. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    29,233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Doesn't matter in This case the bearings are coming out, getting cleaned and inspected to my satisfaction.
    most of my customers are tail wheel aircraft, you lose a wheel on landing it is usually catastrophic.
     
    Brad Smith likes this.
  16. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    You don'teven understand that electrolysis is a purposeful process used in chemistry and manufacturing. Two small electrodes (anode and cathode) and a controlled DC current are used. That is quite a bit different than what we are talking about.
     
  17. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    29,233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    What ever. !
     
  18. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    29,233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tom-D
    Does it matter that you are letter of the law perfect, or does it matter that Inactivity causes damage to wheel bearings. and they should be inspected every year.
     
  19. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    4,889
    Location:
    Home will always be Vandalia, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GlennAB1
    It only matters if something bad happens... or if your customers determine you are doing needless work thats costing them.
     
  20. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,299
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    You two gonna make me break out da bunny? :sosp:
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
    Paulie likes this.
  21. Isosceles

    Isosceles Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    C83
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Isosceles
    I' curious how that compares to car wheel bearings? If car wheel goes off the consequences are as bad as for the airplane but nobody inspects wheel bearing on cars...
     
  22. Salty

    Salty En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,692
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    They do if they are running bearings designed in 1918.
     
  23. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    Mercer Island, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MIFlyer
    they don't? when i had a car with free bearings (like i planes), i inspected, repacked and resealed my front Nova bearings every year.

    My current car they are permanently lubricated, so i have to change the whole hub assembly every 5-6 years, but it's fairly straightforward
     
  24. Isosceles

    Isosceles Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    C83
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Isosceles
  25. Chip Sylverne

    Chip Sylverne En-Route

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,338
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fear is the poison of our lives.
    I've always been told the squeaky wheel gets the grease. :D
     
    Checkout_my_Six likes this.
  26. Dave Palacios

    Dave Palacios Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave P
     
  27. Dave Palacios

    Dave Palacios Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave P
    Hello every one, i am new here, i am a mechanic / pilot.
    proud to be a mech but for some reason people who know me always introduces me as "the mechanic", they seam to forget the pilot part for some reason.
    anyway "is the money savings in an owner assisted annual or maintenance in fact that less hours
    are charged because two people are doing the work? if the a&p were solo it would take longer or is there some other break given?"
    simple question, also some assumed facts!
    No simple answer possible!
    Money savings? no guarantees, too many factors involved: how qualified is the owner? what aircraft are we talking about? whose "house" we at? is this the owners first foray? are proper equipment and tools at hand ? etc.
    The real value, as pointed out by others here, is the "education" and having a part, first hand, in understanding of needed repairs and their disposition as they come up.
    happy new year every one
     
    Checkout_my_Six and Brad Smith like this.
  28. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,299
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    And also to you.
     
  29. Dave Palacios

    Dave Palacios Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave P
    Hey Tim, "Most people" ? well i never thought about the stats? but I can only speak for myself, my original aspirations were airline pilot! but resources and opportunities said otherwise! (I was a Pilot first, Not that I would change anything). I should have mentioned it was a young flight instructor fellow that introduced me to his student that way and I know no disrespect was intended.
    As you are doing, A&P thru OJT, i didn't stop at just pilot! its like an instrument or other ratings, it only makes you a better pilot. For a good pilot learning never stops.
    One other factor to owner assisted annuals is an ability too work as a team member ie; owner, A&P, IA (or A&PIA). Every one should Know their role and limitations to prevent unpleasantness, Expectations should be on the table before beginning.
    Tim this is generally speaking, it sounds like in your particular case you have these things covered
    Blue sky, tail winds and safe flying, Dave P
     
  30. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,299
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    I meant "most people" in your circle of aviation. In other words, you said that you were both a pilot and a mechanic but "most" of those people you referenced (if not all but you) were pilots.