Savings of Owner assisted maintenance

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by JCranford, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. txflyer

    txflyer En-Route

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    Fly it like you STOL it ♦
    For sure. I buy his lunch often. And Christmas he gets a card. I like to save money but I'm not a skinflint.....

    Plus he get's all my annuals and any revenue business.....
     
  2. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Line Up and Wait

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    did you get the Nomad STC to make the cowls easier to service?
     
  3. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Line Up and Wait

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    there's another way? that's how my uncle taught me to pack wheel bearings on my first car
     
  4. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    We call that non-routine maintenance.
     
  5. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

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    You bet! That was the first modification I did to the plane after buying it in 2012.
    What a PITA those lower cowls are without it, especially the 9 bolts on each side up in the main gear wells. I pulled the cowls only twice before I had that mod done.

    Like you, grease in the palm is how I've done bearings going back to my hot rod days back in '70s. Do the same on the plane.

    btw, the closest airport to my Seattle office is Renton and the approach from the north over the Sound, Lake Washington and the Mercer bridge on a clear summer evening is one of those truly spectacular flights every time I do it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  6. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Line Up and Wait

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    you're literally flying over my house if you're flying the approach to 16. I live on the SE corner of Mercer Island. I would dearly love to take a look at your plane and buy you a beer when you're in town sometime. Renton is my airport.
     
  7. GRG55

    GRG55 En-Route

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    Not many people are all that interested in seeing an Aztec, LOL.
    I usually park it at Pro-Flight. PM me and I'll send you my email. You might be the first PoAer I meet in person. Likely spring before I am back there with the plane.
     
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  8. weirdjim

    weirdjim En-Route

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    I'm a $200/hour RF circuit design engineer with more work than I can keep up with. I once was an 85c an hour student technician. I bought a barebones C120 on that student budget and found a perfectly wonderful IA that taught me damn near everything I know about maintenance. His annuals were $25 (1970) if I did all the work. I later learned that he priced his annuals as he thought the owner could pay IF the owner did all the work

    I owe that man. I still do $50 annuals for young college students that don't have two nickels to rub together. I do $200 annuals for anybody that wants to tear their airplane apart and learn. Yeah, I'm a teacher. And if anybody wants to learn from me, perhaps there will be some other IAs after me that will keep the cost of flying down to some reasonable number. And I **ain't** getting rich on annuals. And I ** don't** cut corners.

    Jim
     
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  9. donjohnston

    donjohnston Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You sir, are a saint.

    I bought your antenna design kit for my plane and you helped me build an external ADSB (in) antenna for my Stratus IIs.

    If you ever find yourself in the Redneck Riviera, dinner is on me.
     
  10. cgrab

    cgrab Cleared for Takeoff

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    I used to do the screws out, flip the panel and screws back in but I found that was actually extra work. Now I have a box with zip lock bags in it and every pre-labeled panel, with screws, goes into a pre-labeled bag and into the box. The screws come out once and go back in once. I don't have to avoid flapping panels as I walk under and inspect and protect the wings. I have labeled plastic boxes for the screws for the wingtips, fairings, cowls and interior.

    Here's a tip: I use a plastic coffee can and I put all the round floor panels and buttons in it. I also have a 2x2 piece of stiff plastic that I can slide under the floor panels to lift them out.
     
  11. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    It is illegal for a IA to delegate a inspection. If you're signing off stuff that you didn't personally look at you are delegating the inspection. The only thing the owner should be assisting in is opening panels, ect.
     
  12. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

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    To be honest, I don’t think anyone should wrench on airplanes to pinch pennies. Folks should wrench on airplanes because they want to wrench on airplanes.
     
  13. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

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    Just pulled up the first picture I could find because I had Spruce open already. There are cheaper versions out there for sure. Less mess and wasted grease by using a packer.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Cleared for Takeoff

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    thats true but a good portion of what is done on an annual is not inspection. cleaning and re-packing wheel bearings is not inspection, the only inspection part is looking at them once they have been cleaned. the actual inspection part does not take that long the rest is maintenance and that can be done by the owner as long as he/she is being supervised by an A&P.

    bob
     
  15. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    If the inspection as you say doesn't actually take that long you're not getting a very good one. Maintenance has nothing to do with the inspection.
     
  16. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Is panel close up part of the annual?
     
  17. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    IA is required to inspect condition of wheel bearings. Part 43 Appendix D (e) (7)

    Let's argue about who can disassemble and repack and reassemble them, or even if that's necessary.
     
  18. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    This thread is a great example why I don't do owner assisted annuals.
     
  19. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    This website is full of examples why I don't ever plan on working GA.
     
  20. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You don't believe 43 D (e) (7) is open for interpretation, and simply shaking and spinning the wheel doesn't meet the inspection requirement?

    Wheels are also required to be inspected for cracks and defects. Are wheels disassembled every annual?
     
  21. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    Again I'm so glad that I am allowed to choose which annuals to do. I never said that wheels shouldn't be inspected. Jeez.
    I try to look at everything I possibly can during a annual, not just what's on the checklist. I'm not trying to nit pick but I try to keep the owner safe and apprised of any potential problems. Not really being big on doing repairs myself I'm not attempting to pad a bill. Besides my own planes the only annuals I do are friends aircraft.
    My hangar neighbor has been getting $300 special, drive by annuals for years and I'm trying to get him to see the light. He's convinced his Cessna 172 is bullet proof and nothing can ever go bad. He's also a wealth of mis information. When I asked him what kind of fuel burn he was experiencing he said 12 - 13 gph. (180 hp carb) I asked him how aggressively he leaned and he said a instructor told him years ago to never lean his engine. I gave my opinion of this info and he thinks I'm nuts.
    Hope everyone has a happy holiday. I'm out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  22. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Please tell us where 43 D tells us how in depth the inspection must be
     
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  23. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    That was the point. Where does it say wheel bearings must be removed, cleaned, inspected, re-lubed, reinstalled?

    Merry Christmas!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  24. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Simply put it doesn't
     
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  25. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Just make sure you stick to your checklist.
     
  26. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    This is so typical, a CFI with no experience in engine management, becomes the expert.
     
  27. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    It does say :
    (7) Wheels—for cracks, defects, and condition of bearings.

    It does not dictate how they are to be inspected. or what defects are to be looked for.
     
  28. Isosceles

    Isosceles Pre-Flight

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    Well, it makes perfect sense if he's always flying 75% of power of more (otherwise 172 is too slow) and never higher than 3500 (and it does take time to climb that high in 172!). As long as he leans on the ground :)
     
  29. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    No kidding. We'll wait for someone that thinks the wheel bearings must be removed for that inspection, to comment.
     
  30. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Does common sense play any part in this ?
     
  31. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    He never leans at any time. He thinks the red knob is a on/off switch.
     
  32. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    You tell me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  33. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    But you and others have "more than suggested" that wheel bearing were required to be removed for annual inspection.
    Examples:
    There are many parts of the aircraft that are required to be inspected at annual, without disassembly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
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  34. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Where did I suggest that?

    Common sense says that you are not going to see them unless they are. but common sense isn't regulation.
     
  35. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    But...

    So, what says you have to see them? If you checked the wheel/axle for security/loosened and spin the wheel, observing for abnormalities, would that not be inspecting it? And any abnormalities would be on the list of discrepancies given the owner.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  36. GlennAB1

    GlennAB1 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I posted your quote from a previous thread.
     
  37. Paulie

    Paulie Line Up and Wait

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    Not going to see the crankshaft bearings either, should I wear down the engine during the annual?
     
  38. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    Off topic - but I saw an ad for an E-AB that had a knob labeled "Choke." I assume he mean mixture. But that on/off statement made me think of this.
     
  39. Dana

    Dana Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If it had a 2-stroke or auto engine conversion, it may well have been a choke. The last two planes I had had chokes.
     
  40. Ravioli

    Ravioli En-Route

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    @Dana -- Thanks for that. It is a Viking engine which is a modified Honda. It is in a Van's RV-12 E-AB.

    Glad I asked(?).