Robinson R-44 "all components timed out"

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

Touchdown! Greaser!
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
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I can't help you right now on specifics and hopefully someone will come along that knows. My dad owned a R22 a few years back and I can tell you it is very expensive. I will try to ask him and get back to you if no one else does.
 
^^^ holy crap! Think I'll stick to FW, thank you very much!
 
Its darn near just leasing it from them, at the end of the lease they overhaul it lol.
 
Wow...

Is the max service life a mandatory thing? Or a "we strongly suggest" item like TBO?
 
bnt83 said:
Its darn near just leasing it from them, at the end of the lease they overhaul it lol.
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Pretty much.

That's how all (non experimental) helicopters work. Your rent them from the manufacturer. The only difference with Robinson is that the prices are so cheap and that they require the airframe itself to be overhauled, not just the components. If you look at how flimsy they are built, you want the airframe stripped and x-rayed after 2000hrs.
 
weilke said:
Pretty much.

That's how all (non experimental) helicopters work. Your rent them from the manufacturer. The only difference with Robinson is that the prices are so cheap and that they require the airframe itself to be overhauled, not just the components. If you look at how flimsy they are built, you want the airframe stripped and x-rayed after 2000hrs.
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They also typically have a monopoly on parts, much fewer aftermarket parts for core components.
 
bnt83 said:
They also typically have a monopoly on parts, much fewer aftermarket parts for core components.
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Yup. There is any number of shops that can overhaul a Jetranger tailrotor gearbox and there is an active market for used parts with 'time remaining'. Robinson otoh is pretty much a single-source situation.
 
weilke said:
Yup. There is any number of shops that can overhaul a Jetranger tailrotor gearbox and there is an active market for used parts with 'time remaining'. Robinson otoh is pretty much a single-source situation.
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Providing a service doesn't necessarily mean they manufacture and sell parts to do the service.
 
At 48 I realized why helicopters are safe: they're disposable. In other words, nothing can be re-used after 2000 hours. Proof? This thread!
 
bnt83 said:
The key there is "FAA approved Airworthiness Limitations" = mandatory
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WoW! that's how they get around placing the life limits in the
TCDS. When you loose the Maintenance records you can throw the helo away too.
 
Tom-D said:
WoW! that's how they get around placing the life limits in the
TCDS. When you loose the Maintenance records you can throw the helo away too.
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It must not be a requirement to list each life limited part in the TCDS because there are lots and lots of aircraft that don't and would be impracticable.

There are lots and lots of STCs that add FAA approved airworthiness limitations too and they may not be spelled out in detail on the STC certificate but in the ICA itself.

FAR 43.16 - Airworthiness Limitations
Each person performing an inspection or other maintenance specified in an Airworthiness Limitations section of a manufacturer's maintenance manual or Instructions for Continued Airworthiness shall perform the inspection or other maintenance in accordance with that section, or in accordance with operations specifications approved by the Administrator under part 121 or 135, or an inspection program approved under §91.409(e).
 
bnt83 said:
It must not be a requirement to list each life limited part in the TCDS because there are lots and lots of aircraft that don't and would be impracticable.

There are lots and lots of STCs that add FAA approved airworthiness limitations too and they may not be spelled out in detail on the STC certificate but in the ICA itself.
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Most small fixed wing types the life limited parts are on the TCDS, like Grumman, etc. In the circles I run, there are no life limited parts.
 
Tom-D said:
Most small fixed wing types the life limited parts are on the TCDS, like Grumman, etc. In the circles I run, there are no life limited parts.
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Name a few that received brand type certificates in the last 20 years, they should be formatted similar to transport category jets and these light helicopters if they have any AWL.
 
right there it is:
note 3
Airworthiness Limitations are specified in the Section 2 LIMITATIONS
of the Flight Manual and Chapter 4 of the Instructions for Continued Airworthiness (Maintenance Manual) and are approved by the EASA and the FAA. These LIMITATIONS specify mandatory replacement times, and operating limitations, and may not be changed without FAA approval.

now you know why I do CAR 3 aircraft like the 170.
 
bnt83 said:
It must not be a requirement to list each life limited part in the TCDS because there are lots and lots of aircraft that don't and would be impracticable.

There are lots and lots of STCs that add FAA approved airworthiness limitations too and they may not be spelled out in detail on the STC certificate but in the ICA itself.

FAR 43.16 - Airworthiness Limitations
Each person performing an inspection or other maintenance specified in an Airworthiness Limitations section of a manufacturer's maintenance manual or Instructions for Continued Airworthiness shall perform the inspection or other maintenance in accordance with that section, or in accordance with operations specifications approved by the Administrator under part 121 or 135, or an inspection program approved under §91.409(e).
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They do it this way simply because the manufacturer change the ICAs and the Airworthiness limitations rather easily. and sell parts thru their lawyers. Problem being, the FAA likes it like this.


I do not do 135, 121, or approved maintenance plans under 91.4xx
 
Sounds like police agencies need to get the FAA to relax the minimum altitude requirements... fixed wing is more economical. Get a super cub for the slow orbit.
 
pkuhns said:
At 48 I realized why helicopters are safe: they're disposable. In other words, nothing can be re-used after 2000 hours. Proof? This thread!
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or don't fly a Robinson.

I won't totally **** on Robbies having around 1000 hours in a 44 but I'd much much much much much rather be in a Bell product. If you buy a Bell 47 with wooden blades (no time limit) then you have a whole lot less mandatory throw away parts.

The Hughes 269 is a good ship too but Sikorsky signed their death warrant...
 
jaybee said:
If you buy a Bell 47 with wooden blades (no time limit) then you have a whole lot less mandatory throw away parts.

The Hughes 269 is a good ship too but Sikorsky signed their death warrant...
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Wait, what? Wooden rotor blades on a helicopter? I had no idea that was a thing.
 
Norman said:
They are talking about the whole damned helicopter. It has to go back to Robinson for that. Timed out=DEAD till refurbished by Robinson.
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Doesn't have to go back to Robinson. There are other certified overhaul centers. I work with the owner of TJ Helicopters in Sevierville TN and they specialize in Robinson overhauls.
 
jaybee said:
Yes :)

They used wooden blades up until mid-production of the G2 so basically the wooden blades came on D, D1, G and early G2s
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Was a Bell 47 at my old field that was used for rides / instruction. Wish I would've gone up in it.

Once got a Spruce invoice by mistake for his a battery. $550. :eek:
 
sferguson524 said:
That's a racket for sure..
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I checked out an older Citation 501 with the Williams engine conversion, it's hot rod!! The only place to buy parts for the engines is Williams, the only overhaul facility, you guessed it, Williams. If it isn't under the Williams TAP elite engine program, it lowers the TBO from 4000 to 3500 hours and the cost is somewhere north of $600K per engine to overhaul. I quickly decided that if I wanted one I would have to get one on the engine program or consider it disposable at 3500 hours! :eek: My Conquest is flying great!!! :D:D
 
Velocity173 said:
Doesn't have to go back to Robinson. There are other certified overhaul centers. I work with the owner of TJ Helicopters in Sevierville TN and they specialize in Robinson overhauls.
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Sevierville is the only place I would take a Robbie other than Robinson.
 
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