Ridiculous fees.... what can ya do?

[ntbjounin]

Yes, I currently do not own an airplane, and most of my flying is on my company's card... but when I see these ridiculous fees I cant help but get angry... It's not a money issue, it's an issue of principles.
Here are a couple of my experiences this month.

Trenton, NJ. The extremely rude CSR at Ronson, charges me a $5 landing fee, along with a $60 hangar fee. (they said they gave me half price for my 182). Half price!? $120/night for a light single!? Good lord!)

Then at Atlantic Aviation in Palm Springs, 2 days ago, I was charged a Security fee of $10. I asked what it was about. They said it was a TSA thing. Well I didnt see the TSA at all while I was there. What on earth did I just pay for? And who gets that $10? If it's atlantic, I'm upset about being lied to. If it's TSA... well... I'm just upset that I paid TSA...

Then 2 nights ago at Atlantic at Santa Barbara, I paid $50 for a night in a hangar with the 182. Sure, it's not cheap, but it's kind of what I expected. THEN.... since I didn't get fuel they wanted to charge me a $25 facility fee. Are you freakin kidding me!? I'm paying you a facility fee! It's $50... DUH! After some polite complaining, I got the $25 fee waived, but what the hell?

I've also had mx done, and my company of course foots the bill, but they say the charges were unreasonable, and didn't pay the full bill. And the mx company (who was obviously trying to milk my company for all it could) just took whatever they could. Well, I want to buy an airplane at some point, can I as an individual do any arguing about those fees?

What do you guys do about those fees? I need some help! Again, it's not about the money, it's about the principle! (By the way, I usually have a pleasant experience at the Atlantic at ADS, which I frequent) (but I have nothing good to say about the CSR named Laura at Ronson in Trenton, NJ)

 

[silver-eagle]

When possible, I identify fees up front and find the least expensive among them. At one airport, there were two FBOs on the field. One had a stock landing fee and parking fee. The other didn't. In fact, they took us over to a local restaurant and picked us up after, AND feed us cheese cake for dessert.
HANSCOM, as a MASSPORT airport, charges some silly fees (parking, security, takeoff). As a result, I won't even land there. Most of the other nearby airports don't have any fees.
You have choices for maintenance. Just because there's a mechanic on the field doesn't mean you need to use him. I've flown 50 miles to get the right guy. Some guys make house calls.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

It really has gotten bad some places. I usually call ahead after looking at Airnav to see what it says. I find that if I'm a decent customer (purchase gas and use other facilities) they get nicer. They seem to want to charge the folks that use the facility and don't give them much business, but, as you said, sometimes they just get what they can.

When going somewhere new, call ahead, shop and if you're going to do decent business, negotiate. The folks at Destin last summer waived a fee, lowered gas if they fueled me on the weekend and gave me a break on the rental car after telling them what another FBO would do and that I would purchase over 100 gallons of gas and rent a car. Sometimes, there is little or no competition and all one can do is ask nicely or remind them you can stop somewhere else.

Facilities closer or in big cities just have so much business they don't need to negotiate as much. When I go to Kissimmee for sim training each year, it's just expensive even though there are three FBOs. Because I want a hanger that time of year (storm season), my choices are limited.

Best,

Dave

 

[chucky]

I got hit with $28 at MMU a few weeks ago just to park, plus whatever the landing fee was. I didn't argue it, since anything was worth it to get my airsick passenger on the ground. I think they said they'd waive it with enough fuel purchased, but I hadn't burned that much to get there.

On the other hand, not to long ago I put down at Barnes (BAF) for breakfast. Superfriendly service (with a red carpet and everything!), not a single charge. And a nice restaurant. So I guess it goes both ways.

 

[Everskyward]

What do you guys do about those fees? I need some help! Again, it's not about the money, it's about the principle! (By the way, I usually have a pleasant experience at the Atlantic at ADS, which I frequent) (but I have nothing good to say about the CSR named Laura at Ronson in Trenton, NJ)

Many times if you buy a certain amount of fuel, based on the size of the airplane, they will wave the handling fee. Usually there is nothing they can do if it is a landing fee since those go to the airport authority or some other agency. However, sometimes the fuel is expensive and you may not need it. Speaking of the size of the aircraft, Millionair ADS charges us $400 or 200 gallons. Atlantic would probably be a similar price. I have come to think that anything less than $100 after not buying fuel is getting away cheap.

 

[alaskaflyer]

What can you do? Don't land anywhere there is more than one jet parked on the GA tarmac.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

1) Don't go back to that FBO.
2) Don't go back to that airport.
3) Don't go anywhere that says "Signature Flight Support" (though IMHO Atlantic is a good one to avoid as well).

There are VERY few places that I've ever been that had a landing fee. Some places call it a landing fee when it's really their own ramp fee.

The worst I've ever seen personally: Signature at KMKE charged $46 for a piston single. No, not overnight - That's $46 just to show up. And I got crap service. So now when I need to fly to that area, I use RAC, MWC, or UES (in that order). I will probably never go back to MKE as long as Signature is the only game in town. They suck.

I guess all you can do is complain to the bad ones (I did get a fee refunded after the fact by doing that once), and compliment the good ones (and do more business with them - BUY FUEL). Also, let people know via here, AirNav, etc. where the good and bad ones are. A bad, overpriced FBO will go out of business if enough people find out about it.

I've lucked out so far. Signature at MKE is the only truly bad FBO I think I've ever been to when it comes to fees vs. service. But, let me call out a few of the good guys here too:

1) Wisconsin Aviation (KMSN, KRYV, KUNU): I'm based at KMSN so maybe I'm biased, but Wis Av is generally very good to us. Despite being the only game in town at a class C airport, the sign on the door from the ramp into the terminal says: "NO RAMP FEES - We prefer to earn your business." I wish some other places would learn that attitude.

2) Million Air at Albany, NY. The nicest FBO facility I've ever been in, helpful staff, AND the cheapest fuel prices in the area. Well done.

3) Front Range in Denver. Again, cheapest fuel in the area and staff that bent over backwards IMHO - Made us hotel reservations, left a rental car ready to go out on the ramp for our after-hours arrival, made follow-up/confirmation calls for everything. I'd go back in a heartbeat.

4) Honorable mentions to the FBO's at West Yellowstone, Ellington Field in Houston, Cirrus at Blaine, MN, and probably several others I'm forgetting at the moment...

5) Charming small-town hospitality at Powell, WY and Macon, MO.

 

[Henning]

Climb out of the plane with a shoulder holster containing a Desert Eagle in .50AE...

 

[BenZwebner]

3) Don't go anywhere that says "Signature Flight Support" (though IMHO Atlantic is a good one to avoid as well).

Thats what I do!!!

 

[DutchessFlier]

Oh man this is right up my 'pi**ed' off alley:

Flew an Animal Rescue Flight Saturday to BGM. Got on the Atlantic Ramp to meet the pickup folks, offload the animals, and had them top off fuel. Maybe a 20 minute stop. Go to pay the fuel bill, and I am hit with a $20.00 service fee, in addition to the 15 gals of avgas at $5.15/gal. No other FBO on the field either.

Every other volunteer flight I have flown, the fees are waived, and the fuel is reduced in price, usually 20-25% reduction, sometimes as much as 50%. I looked at the CSR, who was a nice person, and asked, why no consideration of this being a volunteer flight? She said that she was not authorized to waive any fees or discount fuel prices. Bull. I asked if a manager was available, nope, not on a Saturday evening! I am going to go further with this during the week.

 

[dmccormack]

At CSG the line guy pumped about 4 gallons of fuel onto the ramp when he didn't pay attention.

I went inside and the gave me my total.

"You can take off $20 -- I'm not paying for that fuel puddled n the ramp..."

Eye roll, phone calls, lots of writing...
"Here's your bill -- minus $20..."

Sometimes you have to be a bigger a$$ than they.

 

[flyersfan31]

Took an Angel Flight into Winston Salem. Forget the name of the FBO, but they were going to charge me 20-30$ for a 5 min turn. I said, you don't waive fees for Angel Flight? The lady looked at me like I was nuts. Finally, I convinced her that it was usual and customary (hell, even Signature at Logan waives the fees) but she had to make a photocopy of my dispatch sheet.

MMU is to be avoided at ALL COSTS. Expensive and crappy service unless you are a GIV, at min. I had to stay there overnight a few months ago and they did a fair job of emptying my wallet for a whole lot of nothing.

 

[ScottM]

At CSG the line guy pumped about 4 gallons of fuel onto the ramp when he didn't pay attention.

I went inside and the gave me my total.

"You can take off $20 -- I'm not paying for that fuel puddled n the ramp..."

Eye roll, phone calls, lots of writing...
"Here's your bill -- minus $20..."

Sometimes you have to be a bigger a$$ than they.

Just goes to show that everyone can have a bad day. My experience at CSG was exemplary. I landed there, parked over night, they did the tie down, gave me a ride to the hotel, and charged me $0.00 for that service. I bought 15 or so gals of fuel that all went into my tanks.

 

[Ted]

The problem with ridiculous fees is that you can avoid them if you don't have to go to that location, but sometimes you do need to go to that airport.

I've found that doing rescue flights and for personal stuff, a lot of times I can talk them out of fees and get them to be pretty reasonable with maintenance. The thing to remember is the line guys generally don't feel sorry for you, so you have to convince them you're a nice person if you want to get any sort of discount. I generally also try to convince them it's standard procedure that fees get waived for my animal rescues, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

From what I can tell, the best thing you can do to save money when you own your own plane is on the maintenance side. Be active in the maintenance process, have good connections with mechanics one way or another, and try to do as much maintenance as you can at your home base, doing as much of it yourself as you can. The old adage I've heard is that if you double your fuel cost that pretty much covers your total wet costs. I've found that my maintenance costs the first year on the Aztec were more than that, but then again I was also doing a lot of unrequired upgrades and "good to do" maintenance. I'll be interested to see what the second year holds. While looking for the cheapest fuel and airports you can is a significant cost saver overall, a larger percentage of the dollars will be spent on maintenance in my experience. One unexpected top overhaul will end up costing you as much as a whole bunch of landing fees and fuel.

I'm still wishing there was some experimental aircraft that's the aviation equivalent of the original VW. A plane that people can afford, is easy to work on, etc. I've seen a few, but nothing that I think really works. Then again maybe I'm looking for more of a Ford Taurus than a VW Bug.

 

[fgcason]

Let's see here. In 14 posts so far we have:

Fees:
Landing fees, hangar fees, security fees, tsa fees, facility (potty?) fees, parking fees, takeoff fees, fees to just show up, quick turn around fees.

Fee reductions or no fees:
Mouthing off to the FBO semi successfully, a recommendation to carry a gun, avoiding some airports and fbo's entirely, not paying for fuel sprayed on the ramp (annoy the fbo to get out of that one), 5 minute turn around fees, animal rescue flights and angel flight (also gets hit for fees occasionally), fast talking fbo staff into being nice, and one airport that actually understands.

Some fees listed exceed the already too high hourly rental rates of some planes and the majority are at least 50% of the rental rate. Rude behavior seems to be the most successful at avoiding fees.

Just curious;
Are there any airports that charge a fee for charging fees yet?
When are they going to start putting signs up that you can read from the pattern saying what their boogaloo structure is?

Could this be the setup of the return to the barnstorming days of landing in fields?


What can ya do?
I'm seriously thinking my solution is getting a plane along the lines of a Cub or similar aircraft (preferably LSA/experimental to reduce the hassle factor) with tundra tires or floats. Absolutely no designated airports allowed unless there is a way to determine in advance that there are no fees.

 

[azure]

My encounters have been tame compared to what's been posted here. I've only gotten a ramp fee a few times. My worst experience was at Million Air at BKL. Outrageous ramp fee, crappy service (though I didn't buy fuel, so that might have been part of it), then a landing fee from the Port Authority two weeks later.

I don't see that Million Air listed on AirNav, so maybe they've gone out of business. Hope so.

 

[Ted]

What can ya do?
I'm seriously thinking my solution is getting a plane along the lines of a Cub or similar aircraft (preferably LSA/experimental to reduce the hassle factor) with tundra tires or floats. Absolutely no designated airports allowed unless there is a way to determine in advance that there are no fees.

So long as you have a plane that will burn auto gas and a means of getting the auto gas to you where you land in sufficient quantity, that works out pretty well. I'll admit to having dabbled with that idea myself. It sure is attractive so long as it's a nice VFR day out.

 

[Graueradler]

A comment on the overnight hangar fees. I haven't established a fee for overnight hangars. We don't usually have any available. I had a helicopter pilot stop on his way through the other day but planning for an overnight here next week. We found a spot we could put him and I asked him what he thought a reasonable fee would be. He said that he had paid anywhere from $30 to $360 and suggested $50. I accepted.. I've had another pilot a while back suggest $65. This is rural Arkansas. It doesn't sound like the hangar fees that the OP was complaining about are that much out of line.

We do have some costs associated with hangaring. We require two people and it is going to take about 15 minutes to put some one in and again to get them out. We will usually have to move more than one plane. That means that there is usually about a man hour involved

 

[Everskyward]

On the other hand, how are the FBOs supposed to stay in business if they get a lot of customers who don't buy fuel and they don't charge fees? I sometimes feel guilty when I sit around all day drinking their coffee, using their wifi and their crew car and they say "no charge". I remember Yingling at KICT as being one of these places that doesn't charge a fee. I've been to other small airport FBOs where I can't understand how they stay in business. I'll sit around all day and see only a couple other airplanes. So I really think there needs to be a happy medium with fees.

 

[ScottM]

On the other hand, how are the FBOs supposed to stay in business if they get a lot of customers who don't buy fuel and they don't charge fees? I sometimes feel guilty when I sit around all day drinking their coffee, using their wifi and their crew car and they say "no charge". I remember Yingling at KICT as being one of these places that doesn't charge a fee. I've been to other small airport FBOs where I can't understand how they stay in business. I'll sit around all day and see only a couple other airplanes. So I really think there needs to be a happy medium with fees.

I agree there has to be some sort of medium. I flew into KCMI a couple of weeks ago and parked for several days and they only charged me $10. I bought no fuel. Prior to that I had been there on the return from Florida trip, used a heated hangar, had them drive me to and from the hotel and they charged me $60 for the hangar and fuel I used. Seemed fair.

At my airport you can sit around all day and get charged nothing, they make their money off of fuel.

But what annoys me is when I land, pick up a passenger and leave in the space of 30 minutes and an FBO charges me a $30 handling fee (thank you Signature )

 

[Dean]

That's what I like about Missouri, very few places charge these fees, but when they do they are pretty low. The only one in my area that is high is kbbg at Branson. But with the new Branson West airport open and no fees, I look for the bbg traffic to slow way down.

 

[tdager]

On the other hand, how are the FBOs supposed to stay in business if they get a lot of customers who don't buy fuel and they don't charge fees? I sometimes feel guilty when I sit around all day drinking their coffee, using their wifi and their crew car and they say "no charge". I remember Yingling at KICT as being one of these places that doesn't charge a fee. I've been to other small airport FBOs where I can't understand how they stay in business. I'll sit around all day and see only a couple other airplanes. So I really think there needs to be a happy medium with fees.

True...but how many actually get NO service, at all, from landing aircraft?

I would think (though I could be wrong) that it is a very small percent that do not buy at least fuel from an FBO.

BTW...most of us would be happy with self-serve fuel farms and small buildings with locks that are tied to, say, the CTAF that have a phone for local calls, a potty room, a small lounge with vending machines, and perhaps a computer (you could even have it behind glass with just the keyboard/mouse/printer accessible to the pilot).

What else does one need from MOST FBO's?

 

[Everskyward]

The thing to remember is the line guys generally don't feel sorry for you, so you have to convince them you're a nice person if you want to get any sort of discount

I've sometimes found the opposite is true. I've dropped people off at airports after hours when the office staff has gone home and when I ask if I owe anything the line guy will say, "I didn't see you here". Of course that could also because he doesn't want to go to the trouble of making the transaction...

True...but how many actually get NO service, at all, from landing aircraft?

Don't you, at the minimum, use the restroom?

I would think (though I could be wrong) that it is a very small percent that do not buy at least fuel from an FBO.

A number of people here have complained about being charged fees for being on the ramp only 10 minutes dropping someone off so I would say that it was more than a small percent that do not buy fuel.

BTW...most of us would be happy with self-serve fuel farms and small buildings with locks that are tied to, say, the CTAF that have a phone for local calls, a potty room, a small lounge with vending machines, and perhaps a computer (you could even have it behind glass with just the keyboard/mouse/printer accessible to the pilot).

That may be true, or not, but in any case airports which could reasonably go to this system usually don't charge fees anyway.

 

[Ghery]

The only place I've overnighted with the plane is PUW. Interstate Aviation has not charged me a ramp fee, but I have purchased fuel each time. I've also rented aircraft from them a few times. Nice folks, too.

 

[fgcason]

On the other hand, how are the FBOs supposed to stay in business if they get a lot of customers who don't buy fuel and they don't charge fees? I sometimes feel guilty when I sit around all day drinking their coffee, using their wifi and their crew car and they say "no charge". I remember Yingling at KICT as being one of these places that doesn't charge a fee. I've been to other small airport FBOs where I can't understand how they stay in business. I'll sit around all day and see only a couple other airplanes. So I really think there needs to be a happy medium with fees.

The problem won't go away and will only get worse in this society that measures everything in terms of money and profit margins. The things that kept airports going 35-50 years ago is long dead so let's turn it around and think of it another way.

Essentially an airport is the aviation equivalent of an automotive gas station with a handful of parking places and the occasional covered parking area along with a nice on/off ramp to the local dirt road. The problem is that it's located way out in the middle of absolute nowhere on a mostly unused road that only the locals would sometimes use on that rare occasion when they happen to be going that way. No infrastructure, located way out of the way, running below operating cost, no amenities whatsoever beyond the occasional half broken down pop and candy machine that may or may not be working at any given moment.

Now if that gas station starts charging for use of their potty, for picking up the pump and turning it on to fill with fuel, stopping next to the pump to put gas in, or charging someone to pull off the road to toss haybails in the neighbors truck, the locals are likely to just drive by without stopping given the chance. They'll make more money per visit however they'll cut their own throats doing so.

So, let's try to think outside the box for a change. What additionally can be done to get more business and survive without charging fees for the sake of having fees? What can the airport owner do to in order to come up with more business without busting the bank further and hopefully make a profit eventually?


An airport is for all practical purposes a mostly unused park, they just have to do something with it. Just a few ideas to consider:

If the bored ramp rat that's sitting there on his rear end getting paid anyway would get up and chop and saw on a couple logs and move a few rocks around, he could make a picnic table and fire pit in a few days even if he has no experience or idea what he's doing. Presto, instant campground for airplanes at a cost of practically zero instead of telling the pilots to take the free rent car for the night to the local hotel 20 miles away. I have yet to see any quiet podunk airport that could not put in at least a dozen campsites with minimal effort. I'd pay $10 a night to camp out under my wing with a picnic table and campfire without laying on a ramp where you're not really welcome to start with. Put the ramp rat to work for a couple weeks and pass the word around about a big get together airplane camping is planned for a certain weekend with fun rummage sale activities and the next thing you know, you have a Gastons type fly in campout several times a year. Now the airport is a destination instead of a despised and neglected parking garage. Yea, I know most people nowadays would rather be in a spendy hotel however some of us like camping. It's not the end all solution however it's a start to encourage people to go to the airport instead of avoiding it like the plague ridden filthy local shell gas station.

Another idea is that quite a few airports with a lake at the end of the runway. Can you say paddle boats or rowboats? I can.

Have a rummage sale with activities. Host an art festival for $50 per tent. Have a place set aside in the back 40 as a RV campground for anyone with a pilots license and offer nothing other than a place to park for a few days. Seriously, this is completely free money begging to be taken and everyone involved (customers, vendors, pilots and the airport) gets something out of it instead of being robbed.

 

[Everskyward]

Essentially an airport is the aviation equivalent of an automotive gas station with a handful of parking places and the occasional covered parking area along with a nice on/off ramp to the local dirt road.

The problem I see with this analogy is that there are many gas stations and not that many airports. There are also far fewer airplanes than cars. If one gas station is cheaper or provides better service they will naturally get more business than the one down the street. However you often don't have that kind of choice when it comes to airports or FBOs. Even if the gas price at an airport in another town is cheaper you'll use up your savings to fly there if it wasn't your destination to begin with. In addition, you don't usually drop passengers off or pick them up at the gas station. You also don't normally park your car at the gas station while you go off and do other things and your drivers don't hang out at the gas station all day waiting for you to come back either.

So, let's try to think outside the box for a change. What additionally can be done to get more business and survive without charging fees for the sake of having fees? What can the airport owner do to in order to come up with more business without busting the bank further and hopefully make a profit eventually?

An airport is for all practical purposes a mostly unused park, they just have to do something with it. Just a few ideas to consider:

If the bored ramp rat that's sitting there on his rear end getting paid anyway would get up and chop and saw on a couple logs and move a few rocks around, he could make a picnic table and fire pit in a few days even if he has no experience or idea what he's doing. Presto, instant campground for airplanes at a cost of practically zero instead of telling the pilots to take the free rent car for the night to the local hotel 20 miles away. I have yet to see any quiet podunk airport that could not put in at least a dozen campsites with minimal effort. I'd pay $10 a night to camp out under my wing with a picnic table and campfire without laying on a ramp where you're not really welcome to start with. Put the ramp rat to work for a couple weeks and pass the word around about a big get together airplane camping is planned for a certain weekend with fun rummage sale activities and the next thing you know, you have a Gastons type fly in campout several times a year. Now the airport is a destination instead of a despised and neglected parking garage. Yea, I know most people nowadays would rather be in a spendy hotel however some of us like camping. It's not the end all solution however it's a start to encourage people to go to the airport instead of avoiding it like the plague ridden filthy local shell gas station.

Another idea is that quite a few airports with a lake at the end of the runway. Can you say paddle boats or rowboats? I can.

Have a rummage sale with activities. Host an art festival for $50 per tent. Have a place set aside in the back 40 as a RV campground for anyone with a pilots license and offer nothing other than a place to park for a few days. Seriously, this is completely free money begging to be taken and everyone gets something out of it instead of being robbed.

These are all pleasant ideas but are they economically feasible and would they bring in more money than they would cost?

 

[AuntPeggy]

The only time I have been angry about a fee was the time I landed at an airport when the FBO was supposed to be open and wasn't. There was supposed to be a crew car and there wasn't. I spent the night trying to sleep in the cockpit and left the next morning after buying over 20 gallons of fuel. They mailed a bill for the fee to my home.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

At some places that have low fees, I leave a tip. Recently at KBJC they did a great job and I let them know it. Same things at Donaldson in Greenville, SC. Their fuel is a bit high, but they put me in a hanger to off set it.

Best,

Dave

 

[Amelia]

I get as annoyed as anybody else when I get slapped with a landing fee, a ramp fee, charged $6 or more per gallon of 100LL, and all the other parasite fees, especially if I'm flying a volunteer mission. I plan my fuel stops carefully to avoid buying much fuel from FBOs who think we're all millionaires. But I do make an effort to purchase some fuel and to be appreciative to the line folks. They're probably barely making minimum wage, and to be nasty to them because you're annoyed at the owner's policies, is just tacky.

At KEDE, a lovely airport in the very back of Beyond, we charge nothing for non-commercial aircraft for tiedown or ramp, there's a voluntary kitty by the coffee pot. The restrooms, comfortable chairs, TV, toilets, and courtesy car are all free. If we expect terrible weather, our guys will try to find room for you in a hangar- not sure about the charge for that.

But just look who flies in in a humungo-twin or mega-jet, takes up four of our ten parking spots, buys not a drop of fuel, walks right through the building to the waiting limo without so much as a nod to the help-- you better believe there's a tiedown fee for those people. This would, of course, be waived, if those cheapskates would just taxi over to the pump and buy a little fuel. How much trouble/extra expense would that be?

The thing is, our expenses go on, whether or not you care to buy gas or pay for a hangar and all the extra handling that entails. You, no doubt, expect the boys to answer your Unicom call pronto, then hurry out and marshall you to a parking spot, and reverentially place a red carpet at your feet. Fine. But do understand this: Municipal airports have to report to the City Council. If we're costing the town much more than we're taking in, there are those in influential positions who look askance at the overall value of a small-town non-airline-served airport.

 

[wabower]

It's pretty simple. The fuel cards and resellers offered discounts to aircraft owners, who gladly accepted the lower per-gallon cost. This changed the economics for FBO's who had historically made most of their money from the margin on fuel sales. The FBO's reacted by raising fuel prices, and/or instituting ramp fees or minimum fuel purchases. Another example of the law of unintended consequences.

 

[gprellwitz]

I got really annoyed at Signature at Chicago Executive (nee Palwaukee). I was picking up my mother and her husband to take them up to Madison for dinner with my brother. Their facility provided nothing but a gate in the fence. That gate cost $30 to pick them up, and then another $30 to drop them off! I asked if one of the fees could be waived, since we'd just come through a couple of hours earlier, but no go

Next time, we go to Schaumburg (06C), where there are no fees.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Vote with your feet, er, wings.

 

[LT4247]

The major complaint here, as I see it, is FBO's/airports charging fees where there is no service provided. Offer a service and charge a fee is fine but charging to pick up a passenger for a 10 minute turn is ridiculous.

We must all remember we pay a lot of taxes to federal, state, and local governments who maintain most of these airports to start with. Why should we continue to accept paying more and get less?

The real reason to have airports is they bring people in so they can spend money in the community.....so the businesses there can make money. Airports aren't designed to make money same as the roads aren't. Want to see a city die? Charge a toll on ever road leading into town! It's the same with an airport. Make it unpleasant to visit and folks won't spend money there. It's a cycle that has to be managed by people with vision of what really cost money and what doesn't....in the long run.

If we're costing the town much more than we're taking in, there are those in influential positions who look askance at the overall value of a small-town non-airline-served airport.

 

[ScottM]

I got really annoyed at Signature at Chicago Executive (nee Palwaukee). I was picking up my mother and her husband to take them up to Madison for dinner with my brother. Their facility provided nothing but a gate in the fence. That gate cost $30 to pick them up, and then another $30 to drop them off! I asked if one of the fees could be waived, since we'd just come through a couple of hours earlier, but no go

Next time, we go to Schaumburg (06C), where there are no fees.

That is who I was complaining about in my post too. We got around that by finding a friend at another part of the airport that told us what the gate code. So now I pick my passenger up there and then leave.

 

[Everskyward]

The major complaint here, as I see it, is FBO's/airports charging fees where there is no service provided. Offer a service and charge a fee is fine but charging to pick up a passenger for a 10 minute turn is ridiculous.

True.

We must all remember we pay a lot of taxes to federal, state, and local governments who maintain most of these airports to start with. Why should we continue to accept paying more and get less?

Taxes may go to support the airport but usually the FBO is a private business. If they can't make money somehow they won't be in business very long.

Want to see a city die? Charge a toll on ever road leading into town!

Manhattan doesn't seem to be dying to me...

 

[LT4247]

Good point! I guess my statement was made from a Southern perspective.

Manhattan doesn't seem to be dying to me...

 

[fgcason]

The problem I see with this analogy is that there are many gas stations and not that many airports.

That's why I said gas station up a dirt road. Maybe I should have said "gas station up a forgotten dirt road that even the locals don't use except for 5 or 6 people maybe once a month IF they happen to be passing through."

These are all pleasant ideas but are they economically feasible and would they bring in more money than they would cost?

There's only one way to find out.

Fire rings and home made picnic tables can cost about zero with a little creativity. You could probably even forego the picnic tables if you had no materials.
If there is empty land on the airport not being used, or even the unused portion of the ramp that is already there, it shouldn't cost anything at all to open it up to the public or a limited public for an event a few times a year.
Don't forget that something like an art festival or rummage sale, we come to you and pay you so we can set up and sell our wares on your land. A place to park, place to put the tents, someone to watch over things at night and a little advertisement to draw in the crowds is all that's really needed. You'll have to get word out and a few other things however I don't see how it couldn't be profitable with a little homework beforehand.

It's just an idea to consider since the current way of doing things isn't working so well and the land is already right there doing nothing.

 

[Everskyward]

That's why I said gas station up a dirt road. Maybe I should have said "gas station up a forgotten dirt road that even the locals don't use except for 5 or 6 people maybe once a month IF they happen to be passing through."

How do these gas stations stay in business? Or do they? I think if you can't make something economically viable you might as well call it your hobby, and I can't imagine running a gas station or an FBO as a hobby.

There's only one way to find out.

I guess you need to pitch that idea to some FBO owners.

 

[Ted]

How do you get costs down? Get more people flying. How do you get more people flying? Get costs down.

Hmm...

 

[fgcason]

How do these gas stations stay in business? Or do they?

That's the point. They don't. It's not a viable situation because it's a remote isolated setup without a good source of income. The solution is either make it a hobby that loses money, boogaloo everyone that happens to come by, shut down, or try to think of a way to bring business or funds to the location from the surrounding area.

...Just thinking about alternatives since the routine method/rut needs help.