Retraining after Revocation

LDJones

LDJones

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
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Jonesy
I met a new "student" today who was happily flying cargo 747s around the world when some missed communications related to a DUI-stop (plead to careless) came back and bit him....an emergency revocation of ALL his certificates (ATP, FE, 747 Type, etc.)

He's now plowing through all the written tests (PPL done, IR in the works, then Commercial) and should have his medical back next week.

It is my understanding that the minimum he would need is three hours of flight training within the preceding 60 days in order to requalify for each of the check rides. (Three per ride...or three total??....assuming he can reacquire the site-picture of a Cherokee 140 and avoid flaring at 100' AGL!)

Have any fellow CFIs out there taken someone through reacquiring all their tickets? He just needs to get back to Commercial qualified to get his old job back.

Thank in advance.
 
Initial Private, Instrument, and Commercial do require three hours of training for each certificate/rating within two calendar months (formerly 60 days) of that practical test. That's at least nine hours of flight training to get to Commercial with Instrument.

The additional AMEL class rating ride (required unless he does it all from Private up in a twin and doesn't need an ASEL rating) requires an endorsement from an instructor "attesting that the person was found competent in the appropriate aeronautical knowledge areas and proficient in the appropriate areas of operation" for that rating -- see 61.63(c)(1). That reg does not specify any minimum number of training hours to receive that endorsement, but unless the instructor involved wants to risk trouble with the FSDO, it would probably have to be at least as long as that practical test would take.

And while you didn't ask, ATP has no requirement for any endorsement or flight training. Once he has his Commercial certificate and the ATP written done, he can just fill out an 8710-1 and make a date with an examiner for the ATP practical test.
 
Ron Levy said:
Initial Private, Instrument, and Commercial do require three hours of training for each certificate/rating within two calendar months (formerly 60 days) of that practical test. That's at least nine hours of flight training to get to Commercial with Instrument.

The additional AMEL class rating ride (required unless he does it all from Private up in a twin and doesn't need an ASEL rating) requires an endorsement from an instructor "attesting that the person was found competent in the appropriate aeronautical knowledge areas and proficient in the appropriate areas of operation" for that rating -- see 61.63(c)(1). That reg does not specify any minimum number of training hours to receive that endorsement, but unless the instructor involved wants to risk trouble with the FSDO, it would probably have to be at least as long as that practical test would take.

And while you didn't ask, ATP has no requirement for any endorsement or flight training. Once he has his Commercial certificate and the ATP written done, he can just fill out an 8710-1 and make a date with an examiner for the ATP practical test.
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Thanks...I assumed it would be three for each ride, which I suspect will be a minimum anyway since he's been grounded for nine months dealing with this issue. We'll add the multi after the commercial. He's not concerned about the ATP at the moment. He can be back flying for his old company as soon as he passes his commercial, then can deal with the ATP at his leisure.
 
LDJones said:
Thanks...I assumed it would be three for each ride,
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Affirmative.
which I suspect will be a minimum anyway since he's been grounded for nine months dealing with this issue.
Click to expand...
Might well be. And remember 61.13(d)(2): "Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, a person whose pilot, flight instructor, or ground instructor certificate has been revoked may not apply for any certificate, rating, or authorization for 1 year after the date of revocation." Nine months isn't enough, so he'll have to wait for 1 year to the day after the revocation to take the first practical test unless he gets special permission from the FAA to re-apply early.

We'll add the multi after the commercial.
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Then he'll need enough additional training in a twin for the instructor involved to cover all Areas/Tasks for an AMEL additional rating per the Additional Rating Task Table in the Commercial-Airplane PTS at least once each. I suspect that would take me at least an hour to do, and I might want to do some things more than once just to be sure before I put my signature on his application.
 
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"Misunderstanding?" YGBFSM.
Part of me is screaming, "misunderstanding"? The guy REALLY does have a problem. To get that far along, he really had to have DISREGRDED MULTIPLE opportunities to do well!

This screams "problem". I sure hope I'm wrong.
 
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bbchien said:
"Misunderstanding?" YGBFSM.
Part of me is screaming, "misunderstanding"? The guy REALLY does have a problem. To get that far along, he really had to have DISREGRDED MULTIPLE opportunities to do well!

This screams "problem". I sure hope I'm wrong.
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There is that. I believe the attorney representing Hayden J. Shaeffer of the "Smoketown Bandits" fame was told his client would only be wasting time and money if he reapplied -- ever. One assumes the FAA has been consulted to confirm they will countenance reapplication.
 
Ron Levy said:
Affirmative.
Might well be. And remember 61.13(d)(2): "Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, a person whose pilot, flight instructor, or ground instructor certificate has been revoked may not apply for any certificate, rating, or authorization for 1 year after the date of revocation." Nine months isn't enough, so he'll have to wait for 1 year to the day after the revocation to take the first practical test unless he gets special permission from the FAA to re-apply early.

Then he'll need enough additional training in a twin for the instructor involved to cover all Areas/Tasks for an AMEL additional rating per the Additional Rating Task Table in the Commercial-Airplane PTS at least once each. I suspect that would take me at least an hour to do, and I might want to do some things more than once just to be sure before I put my signature on his application.
Click to expand...

I suspect we'll spend several hours in the twin, as well.
 
bbchien said:
"Misunderstanding?" YGBFSM.
Part of me is screaming, "misunderstanding"? The guy REALLY does have a problem. To get that far along, he really had to have DISREGRDED MULTIPLE opportunities to do well!

This screams "problem". I sure hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

I didn't delve too deeply, but he was working out of the country when the original series of notices starting arriving, which was four years after the event in question.

He's jumping through all the hoops. Not making any excuses and just working hard to get back to the job he loves.

I'm certainly not going to be his judge or juror beyond assuring he meets PTS for the check rides.
 
Ron Levy said:
There is that. I believe the attorney representing Hayden J. Shaeffer of the "Smoketown Bandits" fame was told his client would only be wasting time and money if he reapplied -- ever. One assumes the FAA has been consulted to confirm they will countenance reapplication.
Click to expand...

Yes, he's fallen on his sword.
 
Medical asside,

if he needs to pass all those written's timely, he should call Sheppard Air and order everything he needs. They discount nicely for some of the packages...
 
ja_user said:
if he needs to pass all those written's timely, he should call Sheppard Air and order everything he needs. They discount nicely for some of the packages...
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It's not likely someone in this situation is going to need a full ground school package.
 
Ron Levy said:
There is that. I believe the attorney representing Hayden J. Shaeffer of the "Smoketown Bandits" fame was told his client would only be wasting time and money if he reapplied -- ever. One assumes the FAA has been consulted to confirm they will countenance reapplication.
Click to expand...

Did the train-wreck of 5/11/05 bring on the de facto lifetime ban, or were there additional factors in his handling of the subsequent fallout?
 
Choices have consequences (good and BAD). We keep telling our employees and motorcycle students this!
Go have fun, but be smart about it.
 
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