Retractable Gear phobia

U

Unregistered

Guest
I've got the chance to fly a complex airplane, and I'm just too scared to.

Long story short, the first thing I did after getting my private cert was to get my high performance and complex endorsements. When I was signed off, the instructor told me something that left quite an impression on my young mind:

"Some people say there are those who have, and those who will [land gear up] but I say F- that, that's not going to happen to me"

Well, about six months later, it did happen to him, with a student no less (not me.) Needless to say, that was a bit unnerving. As time passed, (the above incident was 10 years ago) I never really had the opportunity to put my endorsements to use due to a lack of available complex airplanes. I still managed to get plenty of complex time (even got some complex seaplane time after earning my single engine sea rating!) from various folks nice enough to let me fly with them, but never soloed in one.

Well, now's my chance. And I'm just not sure I trust myself. I feel confident in my ability to flip a switch, but thinking back to that incident haunts me a little bit... in my mind, if two pilots, both experienced, one an instructor, can forget to flip a switch, how am I, with a smattering of complex experience in a bunch of different airplanes going to be able to not screw the pooch?

I guess I'm looking for anyone that has or had similar fears, and how they were able to overcome them.
 
Can you afford the deductible? If so who cares, it won't kill ya, just break your heart. And make you stronger. So you can land even bigger planes gear up.
 
That's what insurance is for. Just get on the horse and ride. The best way to get over a fear is to face it. Go find a good instructor and fly with them a bit.
 
It's just another part of the checklist,if you think the plane is ahead of you just go around and sort it out.a lot of pilots are in the habit of doing a gump check even with fixed gear.go for it does a lot for your confidence.good luck
 
My wife and I have been flying the Navion just short of 20 years now and I've never come close to gear up and Margy only did so once in her training. THe Navion is also not the most "foolproof" with regard to the gear (no squat switch, no magic hand, just a simple throttle setting based gear horn).
 
While I can't say I had a phobia, let's say I had a healthy respect, bordering on paranoia. I never really worried about the gear coming up, but in the old planes I flew, I worried that when I flipped the switch the gear would come down as planned.

The old Bonanza has the worst user layout, but one of the best engineered gears out there. When I first started flying it, I would hold my breath a little until I heard the gear whine, and see the pointer move. To overcome it, I went up with an instructor and had him sit there and do and say nothing while I flew around and did about 8 manual extensions, then a bunch of landing cycles with a gear retract and extension. After that, I would do at least two manual extensions each year. During a random flight, I would simulate a gear down failure, and do a manual gear extension after a few hours of flight. Now, it doesn't bother me at all.
 
You just need to check your gear several times while landing. 3 green, no red..... green football, no barber pole. etc.

When I first started flying a retract, it took me a few t/o and landings before it became automatic for me to reach up and put the gear UP on climbout. :)
 
Unregistered said:
I've got the chance to fly a complex airplane, and I'm just too scared to.

Long story short, the first thing I did after getting my private cert was to get my high performance and complex endorsements. When I was signed off, the instructor told me something that left quite an impression on my young mind:

"Some people say there are those who have, and those who will [land gear up] but I say F- that, that's not going to happen to me"

Well, about six months later, it did happen to him, with a student no less (not me.) Needless to say, that was a bit unnerving. As time passed, (the above incident was 10 years ago) I never really had the opportunity to put my endorsements to use due to a lack of available complex airplanes. I still managed to get plenty of complex time (even got some complex seaplane time after earning my single engine sea rating!) from various folks nice enough to let me fly with them, but never soloed in one.

Well, now's my chance. And I'm just not sure I trust myself. I feel confident in my ability to flip a switch, but thinking back to that incident haunts me a little bit... in my mind, if two pilots, both experienced, one an instructor, can forget to flip a switch, how am I, with a smattering of complex experience in a bunch of different airplanes going to be able to not screw the pooch?

I guess I'm looking for anyone that has or had similar fears, and how they were able to overcome them.
Click to expand...

As worried as you are? you'll be fine. Checklist, checklist, checklist, checklist, checklist. Make it a religion. When I'm "busy" with ATC, I have a minimal checklist that's basically "GUMPS" that I WILL NOT neglect taped to the panel.
 
Just go fly, and don't forget the mantra, "3 green great down". I say it when I put the gear down, I say it on base, I say it on final, I say it over the threshold.

I just don't say it, I look and touch the lights.
GUMP, GUMP, GUMP

Once flying an aero commander 114, gear down on downwind, turned base, why am I still so high? Pulled power back to "get 'er down", gear bell comes on with reduced throttle position. Well, that explains it, I moved the gear switch and set the power and airspeed I expected with the gear down. But without the drag of the extended gear, I was not descending as I expected.

If it doesn't look right, something's not right. Yes the switch is down, but the gear is not.
I did eventually get the gear to extend, but that's another post.
 
Which retrac are you considering? Knowing the specifics could shed some light on how you might approach it and become comfortable, if that's possible under the circumstances.
 
Like all those who are quoting the need for following a standard procedure, checklist and/or mnemonic. I do routine IPCs and find the biggest challenge is flying with instructors who talk too much. Over the years I had to tell a number of them to "shut up" and honor my sterile cockpit rule when on an approach or in the pattern.

If you become a person of habit/routine, you are less likely to forget it. That said, distractions can be anyone's undoing.
 
Here's the long and short of it, the only time people get hurt in a gear up landing when they do something stupid like stop the prop to save the engine, and even then it typically works out. I have 1500+ hrs in retracts starting with my dual long cross country in my PP training, not once have I forgotten the gear. It's a matter of discipline rather than ego.
 
What do you tell guys like Bill Mitchell who had less than 4 when he had his first gear-up?
Henning said:
Here's the long and short of it, the only time people get hurt in a gear up landing when they do something stupid like stop the prop to save the engine, and even then it typically works out. I have 1500+ hrs in retracts starting with my dual long cross country in my PP training, not once have I forgotten the gear. It's a matter of discipline rather than ego.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
What do you tell guys like Bill Mitchell who had less than 4 when he had his first gear-up?
Click to expand...

"Where was your checklist?" Also note, no injuries, and the plane was repaired. It was a learning experience for him, some lessons are more expensive than others.
 
If you're the type of pilot who has the discipline to adhere to a consistent checklist, you'll have no problems. Just do what you know how to do.
 
He was using a checklist and grabbed the wrong piano key. Not defending him, just pointing out that he most likely doesn't give a fat-rats how many hours somebody else has accumulated without a gear-up. That's why sermons about discipline or whatever are just somebody else's ego exercise that don't help solve the problem.

Henning said:
"Where was your checklist?" Also note, no injuries, and the plane was repaired. It was a learning experience for him, some lessons are more expensive than others.
Click to expand...
 
Another vote for GUMPS no matter what you're flying..."think" about the gear, even in a fixed-gear 150. There are countless pilots with many thousands of hours in retracts who never have landed gear up and never will. The old mantra is just folklore designed to salve the consciences of "those who have."
 
wabower said:
He was using a checklist and grabbed the wrong piano key. Not defending him, just pointing out that he most likely doesn't give a fat-rats how many hours somebody else has accumulated without a gear-up. That's why sermons about discipline or whatever are just somebody else's ego exercise that don't help solve the problem.
Click to expand...

In that case someone failed to instruct him to feel the key for the wheel shape. Gear switches have a wheel on them, flap switches are flap shaped. It's really off the point I was making anyway, the point was there's no particular reason to fear having a gear up as people rarely ever get hurt in them. Carry insurance and be reasonably careful, no fear required.
 
I agree with "think about the gear". It also helps sometimes to have "help" of the kind that one would rather not have. My Cardinal's downlock mechanism sometimes fails to engage completely, resulting in no green and a blaring gear horn when the throttle is pulled back. I've paid my mechanic umpteen hours worth and still no luck figuring out what is wrong (CFO Cardinaleers: it's none of the usual suspects). Cycling the gear again will make it engage properly, but every single time I flip that switch down I wait with bated breath wondering if I'll have to do the recycle thing.

So remembering the gear is easy right now. When it's finally fixed is when I'll really need the checklist discipline to keep from forgetting.
 
Last edited:
AS I observed back then, Bill "Cat'sNDogs" Mitchell will NEVER make that particular mistake again. Fortunately that is the one area of operations in which the miss is generally surviveable.

I think it's mostly a matter of getting someone's attention. Gear up sure does that.
Sort a like when he departed Gastons with three up in that Cherokee 140. I think he s_at himself (and I got angina or something like it).

And the ice episode.

Some folks have to learn hands on and hope the don't die. Some can learn by watching others mess up.

So to the OP, make a decision as to which one you are. You'll be fine.
 
If it hasn't been said yet, I'll go a head and say it...
It's simply a matter of checklists and discipline.
 
I don't think it's that simple, and pretty sure the OP doesn't either. Once we know which plane and which model and gear system he might fly, it will be easier to suggest a method to help him gain knowledge and confidence.

For example, many pilots and owners here are probably savvy about whatever he's going to fly. We could perhaps steer him to a good ground school on the system, maybe suggest at type-club hands-on session to see gear swings on jacks or a specialty shop that would be willing to spend some time showing him things that he couldn't learn elsewhere.

Once he understands the nuts and bolts, warning systems, normal, abnormal and emer checklists and indications and all the other yada yada, he might feel more comfortable with his ability to handle the extra complexities. Or decide for damn sure he doesn't. Whichever way is fine, but he's gotta find a way to approach it other than hearing all the "follow the checklist" or "here's how I do it" that don't mean squat to a guy who's already spooked and trying to decide if the hare is worth the chase.

Some of us who teach might help him understand that CFI's can be distracted too, and that a gear-up during dual instruction could be even easier to befall a pilot than when solo. I have a few examples of such oopsies (or in my case near-oopsies) if nobody else will admit to it.
 
Three green? In the Comanche I only have one green.
But I look at it at least three times.
 
Unregistered said:
I've got the chance to fly a complex airplane, and I'm just too scared to.
Click to expand...

You have to do a certain series of tasks to fly a non-retract or you die.

You have one more task in a retract and one more emergency procedure to learn, or you'll scrape up the belly.

Flying is more dangerous than the gear handle.

Do you forget to use the throttle, yoke, or flaps often? Then perhaps a retract isn't for you.

There, feel better? ;)
 
Get a plane with a gear warning switch. I've never forgotten the gear on my aircraft but if I did an annoying buzzing sound goes off below 85 kts. If someone can't be alerted to drop the gear with that kind of help, they shouldn't be flying in the first place.
 
Buy a Cessna retract. That way you can see the mains when you lower them. :D The nose requires a gear mirror though.

My routine is - Take off, gear up, thump in the butt gear up
Landing - Gear down, got a wheel, got a light, land.

It becomes automatic after a while.
 
wabower said:
Which retrac are you considering? Knowing the specifics could shed some light on how you might approach it and become comfortable, if that's possible under the circumstances.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. Althoug I've never tried, I think in the Mooney I'd know on short final because it is so slippery. "Hey, why can't I slow down?"

That said, I've never gotten to short final without gear down.

I personally think the most vulnerable times are non-standard landings such as straight in VFR approaches. In the pattern I have set places in the pattern where I make config changes and that gets pretty ingrained. Likewise on instrument approaches the major config change is at the FAF.

But VFR straight in? No real set place or reminder to put the gear down. I normally put it down pretty early (3mi out) and check again short final.

ALWAYS check again short final.

Go fly and enjoy! Neither my partner nor I had retract experience when we bought the Mooney and we've been fine.
 
bbchien said:
Sort a like when he departed Gastons with three up in that Cherokee 140. I think he s_at himself (and I got angina or something like it).
Click to expand...

I won't forget that one, nor when Kevin went skidding by and across the road. :yikes:
 
Didn't Piper offer a retract with an auto gear extension? Maybe when you got below a certain speed and deployed flaps? I don't know much about it but I think I recall there was a model that would put the gear down for you without you touching a gear switch.
 
You're right. The bone of contention that followed was that many situations exist (training is probably the most-mentioned) in which the pilot doesn't want the gear to auto-fall and therefore pulls the breaker to disable the system. But if he then forgets to reset the breaker, he's back to square one or maybe worse. Kinda like the big rubber band around the yoke button for the Mooney wing-leveler.

docmirror said:
Didn't Piper offer a retract with an auto gear extension? Maybe when you got below a certain speed and deployed flaps? I don't know much about it but I think I recall there was a model that would put the gear down for you without you touching a gear switch.
Click to expand...
 
docmirror said:
Didn't Piper offer a retract with an auto gear extension? Maybe when you got below a certain speed and deployed flaps? I don't know much about it but I think I recall there was a model that would put the gear down for you without you touching a gear switch.
Click to expand...


Certain of the piper models (arrows, lances) had a "back up gear extender system" that used a separate pitot tube that dumped the hydraulic pressure in the gear system when you slowed and didn't have it overridden. There are no uplocks in the arrow. The only thing holding the gear up is the hydraulic pressure. They got some bad press because of a crash where the engine failed and the guy didn't override the autoextend and the gear came out prematurely. The flaps have no direct bearing on the auto extend.

Piper issued a mandatory service bulletin that stated either remove the thing (replacing it with a buzzer that sounds with either 10" of MP or two notches of flaps) or that you familiarize yourself with the proper operation of the thing (including how and when to override it).

It BEHOOVES YOU to always know the systems in the aircraft you are flying. There is no ONE SIZE FITS ALL for this thing. Everything from the admonition to "feel the handle" (useless in older Bonanzas with the piano key switches) and three green (if you don't have that sort of indicator) are not necessarily applicable. Further, just about every model I've flown has different emergency procedures.

The emergency procedure in the Navion has about eleven steps to it (depending on just what has failed). I had a very senior Navion owner and flight instructor who had a failure and he was missing a fundamental part of the procedure that I had learned years ago: ONCE THE GEAR COMES DOWN IN THE EMERGENCY PROCEDURE STOP MESSING WITH IT. The Navion gear will slam down with authority and lock if the uplocks are released and there's no hydraulic power forcing it up. You can get a Navion into just about any sane field without flaps, so if you had to kill the hydraulic power to get the gear to drop, DON'T TURN IT BACK ON AGAIN lest the gear retract.
 
Last edited:
docmirror said:
Didn't Piper offer a retract with an auto gear extension? Maybe when you got below a certain speed and deployed flaps? I don't know much about it but I think I recall there was a model that would put the gear down for you without you touching a gear switch.
Click to expand...

The auto gear extension was deactivated on the club's Arrow. However, it has a really annoying horn/buzzer that goes off if you pull the power with the gear up. Really annoying.

Midfield downwind, gear down, three green.

Turn base, three green.

Turn final, three green.

Short final, three green.

Works for me. So far.
 
Part of what I do is on short final ask myself does this all look right? Does my power setting make sense? Does my pitch look right? Does my sink rate make sense? Does my airspeed make sense? I do this in any airplane regardless of the gear and the gear still being up will make much of that not make sense.
 
flyingron said:
Certain of the piper models (arrows, lances) had a "back up gear extender system" that used a separate pitot tube that dumped the hydraulic pressure in the gear system when you slowed and didn't have it overridden. There are no uplocks in the arrow. The only thing holding the gear up is the hydraulic pressure. They got some bad press because of a crash where the engine failed and the guy didn't override the autoextend and the gear came out prematurely. The flaps have no direct bearing on the auto extend.

Piper issued a mandatory service bulletin that stated either remove the thing (replacing it with a buzzer that sounds with either 10" of MP or two notches of flaps) or that you familiarize yourself with the proper operation of the thing (including how and when to override it).

It BEHOOVES YOU to always know the systems in the aircraft you are flying. There is no ONE SIZE FITS ALL for this thing. Everything from the admonition to "feel the handle" (useless in older Bonanzas with the piano key switches) and three green (if you don't have that sort of indicator) are not necessarily applicable. Further, just about every model I've flown has different emergency procedures.

The emergency procedure in the Navion has about eleven steps to it (depending on just what has failed). I had a very senior Navion owner and flight instructor who had a failure and he was missing a fundamental part of the procedure that I had learned years ago: ONCE THE GEAR COMES DOWN IN THE EMERGENCY PROCEDURE STOP MESSING WITH IT. The Navion gear will slam down with authority and lock if the uplocks are released and there's no hydraulic power forcing it up. You can get a Navion into just about any sane field without flaps, so if you had to kill the hydraulic power to get the gear to drop, DON'T TURN IT BACK ON AGAIN lest the gear retract.
Click to expand...

IT BEHOOVES ME TO THANK YOU WITH ALL CAPS. I WAS JUST MENTIONING THAT I HEARD OF THE SYSTEM, SO YOU CAN STOP SHOUTING AT ME NOW. I DON'T HAVE ONE -- OBVIOUSLY.:yes:
 
OP here... thanks for the replies. I'll try to address a few of the comments so far.

The aircraft in question is a cessna retract. For clarification, I'm not really bothered by the thought of a landing gear malfunction or failure. Similarly, I have no problem flying RG aircraft with other pilots (especially if it's their airplane.) My primary concern is the malfunction of the "nut that holds the yoke."

I'm quite careful about checking gear, and many of the pilots I've flown with have commented on my fastidious nature when it comes to altitude call outs, checklist items, etc. Gear is one of those things I always pay attention to, regardless of which seat I'm in - right seat, back seat, seat 29 A, in front of my PC watching a youtube video, etc.

A few of the specific circumstances given here are some of my concerns, like distractions when VFR into a controlled airport due to changing traffic conditions.

I suppose the best opiton is to just "go do it" a few times and see how I feel. Maybe seeing myself do it a couple of times will put me at ease...
 
I would rather fly with a guy that had a healthy fear of forgetting than with some macho pilot that thinks he is too good to ever make a mistake like that.

I think it is your very fear that will make you concentrate on not screwing it up. Your problem will probably be putting them down too early, which is a hell of a lot less problematic.
 
docmirror said:
IT BEHOOVES ME TO THANK YOU WITH ALL CAPS. I WAS JUST MENTIONING THAT I HEARD OF THE SYSTEM, SO YOU CAN STOP SHOUTING AT ME NOW. I DON'T HAVE ONE -- OBVIOUSLY.:yes:
Click to expand...

Sorry not yelling at you specifically, just emphasizing that there is no "one size fits all" procedure that will fit all aircraft. Aircraft all have different gear extension mechanism, gear operating/extended speeds, backup/warning systems, and emergency extension procedures. Rather than thinking because I got my complex signoff that I now know all there is to known about retracts, each new aircraft requires some specific familiarization.
 
Some differences, but most C models are similar. If you adopt the standard sequence of "Approach flaps, gear, landing flaps" the system has pretty good warnings for the pilot. All of the obvious warnings about getting out of sequence during go-rounds or whatever still apply but are pretty much constant for all retracs.

Unregistered said:
OP here... thanks for the replies. I'll try to address a few of the comments so far.

The aircraft in question is a cessna retract. For clarification, I'm not really bothered by the thought of a landing gear malfunction or failure. Similarly, I have no problem flying RG aircraft with other pilots (especially if it's their airplane.) My primary concern is the malfunction of the "nut that holds the yoke."

I'm quite careful about checking gear, and many of the pilots I've flown with have commented on my fastidious nature when it comes to altitude call outs, checklist items, etc. Gear is one of those things I always pay attention to, regardless of which seat I'm in - right seat, back seat, seat 29 A, in front of my PC watching a youtube video, etc.

A few of the specific circumstances given here are some of my concerns, like distractions when VFR into a controlled airport due to changing traffic conditions.

I suppose the best opiton is to just "go do it" a few times and see how I feel. Maybe seeing myself do it a couple of times will put me at ease...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top