Last time I swung the gear it was 30 minutes from pulling it in to getting it out again.
Retract vs Fixed Gear
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Last time I swung the gear it was 30 minutes from pulling it in to getting it out again.
Ted
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Last time I swung the gear it was 30 minutes from pulling it in to getting it out again.
Doesn't hold water with me, either.
bnt83
Final Approach
Last time I swung the gear it was 30 minutes from pulling it in to getting it out again.
If the airplane isn't junk, including the gear, a retract isn't a big deal. But when you take a new-to-you plane to a new mechanic and they find the gear has been neglected, yeah it's gonna be on jacks a while.
Ken Ibold
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That's him, not the airplane. In addition, the type of retract mechanism can make a huge difference. All electric, hydraulic, type of emergency extension system all matter. Some types can be problematic because they're complex -- such as the ones where the nose gear rotates 90 degrees before retracting.
To lump together, say, a Mooney with a Cessna 210 with gear doors is a little foolish.
wabower
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Did they pack the bearings and do all the other stuff that's typical when it's jacked?
Last time I swung the gear it was 30 minutes from pulling it in to getting it out again.
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
The only retract I've ever owned is a Bonanza. They are stout as all get out. I've heard very good things about the Mooney bar retract too. If it's a Cessna/Piper, maybe there's a few kernels of truth to the comparison, but still, I'll take my retract cycle and mx any day over a fixed wing bird of similar power. Of course, I do, and I did.
Sac Arrow
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Bonanzas are great. Of course, if the gear goes South you are swinging a mechanical jack to lower it. I've had to do an emergency gear extension in my Arrow three times, and it was a non event.
wabower
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Wayne
Dead Stick
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The last time I looked, Ma Nature hadn't built any fixed-gear birds. Trust her, she knows what's best. 
wabower
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Yeah, but they have much lower VLO/VLE speeds.
The last time I looked, Ma Nature hadn't built any fixed-gear birds. Trust her, she knows what's best.
Ted
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I've also never known them to have gear failures, and they have redundant gear.
wabower
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Wayne
And for carrier work they have their own hook.
JHW
En-Route
messing around with wheel pants, fixing cracks and taking them on/off to service brakes, isn't free either.
Garthur
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Last time I swung the gear it was 30 minutes from pulling it in to getting it out again.
All you guys that think it only takes 30 mins to swing and inspect the gear had better talk to their mechanics. They can't do a quality job that fast. Just doing the wheel bearings would take an hour. I know because I worked in the shop with my A&P for years. He walked me through all the required and not required but had to be done "to ensure a good job"inspections and there is a lot to do. Just getting the jacks and getting the aircraft jacked up correctly can take 30 mins.
30 mins? no way! I think the fastest that I have ever seen it done was about 3 hours and that was assuming that there wasn't even one thing wrong or a part the needs to be replaced. If this is the case then add several more hours.
That's the case with any airplane. Not just retracts. I like to think my airplane isn't junk, though there have been issues in the last year. But what can I expect? It's flown more this year than it ever has any other year (bought it with 1400tt on the airframe... it's a 1981) so I expected there to be some issues to shake down even after the annual. An airplane that hasn't been taken care of faces issues no matter if it's a retract or a straight leg. Anyone who disagrees with that is idiotic.
It wasn't at annual. It was after replacing the steering bungee. The mechanics said the gear swing wasn't necessary, but I asked for it because I'd hate to get the gear up and the bungee break or get caught on something then have it not come down or come down crooked. So I asked them. It was 30 minutes. My annual is due in June. I'll report back every gear related issue we find.
After owning a retract I wouldn't go back to a straight leg, no matter how much the Cessna reps at Barrett-Jackson tell me that their T182T will smoke my RG... for only 5x the price!
bnt83
Final Approach
Retract just kinda completes a high performance airplane IMHO
JHW
En-Route
incremental time vs a fixed ear takes me a couple hours on my plane to see everything I want to see. That's assuming the fixed-gear plane in question has no wheel pants. If it does, the time is near a wash.
fixed or swinging gear, the plane still has to be jacked to get the wheels off. That is, unless your fixed gear plane has lubed-for-life wheel bearings and needs no attention, which is what you seem to be implying.
JimNtexas
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It's pretty silly for a C182 owner to say that a C177RG costs too much because of the landing gear.
Even though the C177RG is in fact on the high end of retract average gear maintenance costs.
You pretty much can't burn more than 12gph in a C177RG no matter how hard you try. You can get 10gph and keep most of your cruise speed.
Both the C182 and C177RG cruise around 135, (IIRC about the 182). The 182 is drinking a heck of a lot more $6-7 gas every hour!
It's been a few years, but I do have some experience with C182's, 99% on long Angel Flights. If you need to carry 4 Texas sized adults in reasonable confort then the C182 is the weapon of choice. If you're carrying only 3 Texas size adults, I'd still choose the 182, the 177RG can do that also, but you may want to give up some range.
I've landed our 177RG on dirt, but don't recommend it. For poorly prepared fields take the 182.
If you are smuggling gold bars then by all means stuff the C182 full.
Two adults and a generous baggage allowance to and from 2800+ foot paved runways? Or Mom, Dad and the kids? The C177RG wins every time.
And if any Cessna is way better than any single engine PA-28 derivative if any adult has to ride in the back row(s).
Even though the C177RG is in fact on the high end of retract average gear maintenance costs.
You pretty much can't burn more than 12gph in a C177RG no matter how hard you try. You can get 10gph and keep most of your cruise speed.
Both the C182 and C177RG cruise around 135, (IIRC about the 182). The 182 is drinking a heck of a lot more $6-7 gas every hour!
It's been a few years, but I do have some experience with C182's, 99% on long Angel Flights. If you need to carry 4 Texas sized adults in reasonable confort then the C182 is the weapon of choice. If you're carrying only 3 Texas size adults, I'd still choose the 182, the 177RG can do that also, but you may want to give up some range.
I've landed our 177RG on dirt, but don't recommend it. For poorly prepared fields take the 182.
If you are smuggling gold bars then by all means stuff the C182 full.
Two adults and a generous baggage allowance to and from 2800+ foot paved runways? Or Mom, Dad and the kids? The C177RG wins every time.
And if any Cessna is way better than any single engine PA-28 derivative if any adult has to ride in the back row(s).
azure
Final Approach
That's stretching it, I think. Full rich will get you above the green at 24 squared, which is 13.5 gph or more. But no one in their right mind would willingly cruise burning that much fuel. As others have said, if you can run LOP you can do 9 gph or even better, without sacrificing more than about 5 kts. Below about 65% power, any IO-360 should be able to run at least slightly LOP. The only time I burn anywhere near 12 gph is if I'm forced to cruise at low altitude with a headwind. Then I resort to 24 squared and about 11.5 gph indicated (about 11 gallons per tach hour). Otherwise I'm at 23 squared, 10 gph or so down low, or LOP at altitude.
RotorAndWing
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Last time I swung the gear it was 30 minutes from pulling it in to getting it out again.
That's very henningesque , if you follow the MM and do the proper checks it takes far longer than that.
wickedsprint
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The last time I looked, Ma Nature hadn't built any fixed-gear birds. Trust her, she knows what's best.
Haven't seen any three legged birds either.
Ted
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I'd agree 30 minutes seems a bit short, but I was calling BS on the couple days vs couple weeks for FG vs retract. If there are few squawks, I've had complete annuals done in under a week on the Aztec or 310.
gismo
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It also takes time to do the proper checks and PM (brakes, bearings, tires, etc.on a fixed gear airplane and if there are wheel pants involved the difference between a typical FG and a reasonably simple RG (e.g. Mooney or Bonanza) shouldn't amount to more than an hour or two. But 30 minutes wouldn't allow for more than jacking the plane up and swinging the gear to verify that it actually works, and that's nowhere near what needs to be done.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
My thoughts on this article also
JHW
En-Route
FWIW when I bought this travel air I had it on jacks for 4 months while I searched for parts. When everything finally worked I had to take a picture and do a little dance. Sorry, no photos available of the dance. With that job done, it will be another 4-5000 hours before any significant work should be needed. The plane took 50 years to get to this point, I don't think I'll lose too much sleep over that cost coming back.
Contrast that with my PA32 which needed attention to wheel pants every year and it took forever to take them on and off to check brakes. I hate wheel pants with a passion, give me swinging gear any day.
Contrast that with my PA32 which needed attention to wheel pants every year and it took forever to take them on and off to check brakes. I hate wheel pants with a passion, give me swinging gear any day.
Attachments
tmyers
En-Route
My annual took four days including getting some parts in to complete so unless there are major issues I wouldn't know why it would take weeks.
I am thinking the 30 minutes would cover jacking the plane up swinging the gear, checking emergency extension and putting the plane back on the ground. the time to grease the wheel bearings and check or replace the brakes would be the same between a retract and fixed plus you have the wheel pants to deal with.
The Arrow does have a recurring AD that requires inspection and x-ray of the gear attachment points based upon time. This will certainly add some time to which ever annual is happening when that is due.
As for insurance I am paying $1100 a year with a hull value of $65K. Doesn't seem to bad to me.
JHW
En-Route
I'm thinkingthe airplane is already on jacks to service wheel bearings, and the "30 minutes" is the additional time to check the retract function. That said, that extra "30 minutes" still takes me a couple hours.
wabower
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The plane is only on jacks if somebody put it there. Time required (as a stand-alone procedure) includes:
Roll the plane into the hangar on the desired spot
Attach the jackpads to the airframe
Move three jacks and one tailstand (if needed) into position with jackpads snug in cups.
Find two more mechanics in order to raise the jacks simultaneously.
Clock time required before any work is started: 45 minutes
Time-card time: 1:05 before any work is started
And no, it can't be done quicker no matter who you are.
Roll the plane into the hangar on the desired spot
Attach the jackpads to the airframe
Move three jacks and one tailstand (if needed) into position with jackpads snug in cups.
Find two more mechanics in order to raise the jacks simultaneously.
Clock time required before any work is started: 45 minutes
Time-card time: 1:05 before any work is started
And no, it can't be done quicker no matter who you are.
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tmyers
En-Route
When taking care of wheel bearings on a fixed gear airplane is it standard to just jack up one wheel at a time or do you go ahead and lift the entire airplane as you would a retract?
wabower
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No single answer AFAIK. For example, how many mechanics will be working on it? We had eight guys reassembling and hanging the gear after a six-year inspection, so one-at-a-time wasn't in the cards. When I do the bearings and brake work on my taildragger, it's usually a one-man job.
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Roll the plane into the hangar on the desired spot
It's already there, I jack in-place in my own hanger
Attach the jackpads to the airframe
Huh? Built into the Bonanza, don't fit/attach anything
Move three jacks and one tailstand (if needed) into position with jackpads snug in cups.
Two jacks, one tail stand, no jackpads
Find two more mechanics in order to raise the jacks simultaneously.
I just crawl under there with the bottle handle back and forth a few times. Not elegant, but it gets the job done. I do have to move back to the tail stand once in a while to adjust it.
I'm not saying I can have it up safely in 30 min, but from the time I drag the jacks out of the VW to the time I'm in the air safely is no more than 45 minutes. I've done it plenty of times, and I'm sure no one special. Once it's up in the air, it's at least another 45 minutes min to check the stuff I want to check. From there it's either lube it and let it down, or start fixing stuff. Lucky, the Bo is darn sturdy in the gear dept. But - you already knew that.
wabower
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JHW
En-Route
I jack the whole thing. More stable, and if I find a bad bearing or cracked wheel, I don't care if I have to leave it that way for awhile.
