Retiring now

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by RyanB, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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  2. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That is a classic "it depends" question.

    It depends on:
    How old are you?
    Where you live?
    What lifestyle do you want to maintain? (do you like to travel and eat out a lot)?
    How many/what kinds of airplane do you want?
    How self sufficient are you?

    I suspect that someone like Rich could get by on a lot less that I could.
    In fact, I could get by on about 20% of what Leslie and I need.
    But for us, $2M was the number I demanded before retiring.

    edit: I just saw that the question was for those not retired yet. But the perspective of a retired person still has merit.
     
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  3. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    All of it.....
     
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  4. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Just shooting a # out there
     
  5. GeorgeC

    GeorgeC Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Figure out when you want to retire, and how long you plan to live after that.
    Figure out dollars spent per year of retirement, call it X.
    Figure out what total amount of assets will give you X/year in income given reasonable return and inflation assumptions, call that total Y.
    Save $Y before you retire.

    A couple or three sounds about right.
     
  6. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Are you asking me or my wife? The answer is significantly different. ;)
     
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  7. Sam D

    Sam D Cleared for Takeoff

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    10M plus capital to buy TBM plus enough additional to fund operating costs out of annual returns of said amount.
     
  8. Everskyward

    Everskyward Experimenter

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    All of these estimates and conditions sound reasonable. Remember that if you have investment income, or sell appreciated assets to live on or rebalance, you will need to pay taxes...
     
  9. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Are you going to keep flying or not? Changes the number significantly. :)
     
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  10. Everskyward

    Everskyward Experimenter

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    Also, are you going to take expensive vacations? :oops:

    I opted for vacations over flying. But I flew all my adult life and have that BTDT attitude about it.
     
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  11. Shepherd

    Shepherd En-Route

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    The women in my wife's family live forever. Seriously.
    I had to calculate for her living to well over 100 years old. ($$$$) squared.
    Lot's of our money in very secure bonds. Much of them tax free.

    On the other hand, everyone in my father's rarely live past 73. Most are dead before 60.
    I'm spending my portion of my retirement as fast as I can.
     
  12. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Meh, I don't plan on being the richest guy in the graveyard.
     
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  13. wsuffa

    wsuffa Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Don't forget tax implications, which are likely to change given the election next year. That will be a big deal. Another reason to do a Roth account.
     
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  14. wrbix

    wrbix Pattern Altitude

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    If you’re old enough to think about retiring, then you’re too old to get rich.
     
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  15. charheep

    charheep Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    5M@50. 4M@60, 3M@66. At 50, I will need to buy a house, re-home the Mom's wherever I go, buy them houses and pay off everyones debts. Less say, at 50, I burn through 1M being stupid and setting up for retirement. That leaves 4M @5% return on investment, 200k a year without touching the principal. I can easily live on half that, but I want to be over prepared and not cutting it too close. Once I am fully retired, I am not coming back to work. If I tough it out to closer to 60, more stuff will be paid off(probably all) and I will probably not have the Mom's around. Sell the house. move to the retirement area, buy something smaller and again live off the interest. My goal is to quit full time at 55, the wife will be working again then, and find a second career where I am not tied to emails 24/7. I can probably work for this company as a consultant a day or two a week. Or move out of IL, downshift and work enough to keep busy and fly the snot out of the plane. My grandparents all lived into their 90's, and my mom is in her mid 70's and is going strong. I would guess I would see my 80's.

    The above numbers will change if health care changes (money needed and ages).

    After 21 years at the same company, retirement is one of my favorite conversations...
     
  16. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Doesn’t matter, I can’t retire anyway as long as I am flying
     
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  17. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    I retired at 56 on far, far less than is being discussed here. I sold my house in CA at $430 sq/ft and built on 10 acres in TN at $110 sq/ft. Also eliminated the high state income taxes of CA to a no state income tax in TN. I admit, I made significant sacrifices to retire at 56. I could of stayed around longer, but you only get one shot at this dance so best to exploit it while health and age allow it.
     
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  18. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    You can retire young and live at with a very low standard of living, but if you get ill and want quality health care you better have good insurance or a lot of cash.
     
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  19. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Indeed. Insurance is important in retirement you'll need it sooner or later
     
  20. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    how do you figure?
     
  21. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The number seems to keep getting bigger as I get closer to it... ;)
     
  22. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    Probably because it’s expensive!
     
  23. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    $3M in the bank and I'd retire now.

    Only need 15-20k a year flying a Cherokee.

    Even at $3M invested, you can easily afford that. Of course, I am not a neutron star orbiting a black hole.
     
  24. MIFlyer

    MIFlyer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Use the 4% rule as a rule of thumb. You can spend about 4% of your investments each year. So, if you need 120k a year then you need around 3 million


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. RyanB

    RyanB Super Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    like most hobbies, it has to be budgeted for.
     
  26. 455 Bravo Uniform

    455 Bravo Uniform En-Route

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    Whatever it would take to make $100k/yr in income, not touching the principal. At 4% conservative return, that’s $2.5MM principal.

    But then, I’d also want to spend down the principal to theoretically end up with $0 on the last day. I’ll practically have a really hard time spending $200k/yr when I’m 90 (if I make it that far), medical bills not included.

    Or so I’m guessing.
     
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  27. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    15-20K Cherokee?

    What? A six?

    In 2018 I flew my Cherokee 140 120/hrs. Total fixed and variable cost for 2018 was $8700/$725/mth. Good grief, I know some with car payments that high
     
  28. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    That included hangar and insurance and all maintenance? When I had my Cherokee 180 I was always over 10k a year for EVERYTHING airplane related.

    Based where I am now a Cherokee 180at 150 hours a years would run:

    Hangar $2200
    Insurance $600
    Database Updates $800
    Fuel $7000 ($4.69/gal x 10gph x 150hrs)
    Annual $2000 - people say $600 annual, but there's always something
    Other Mx $2000 to be conservative.

    That gets me to $14000 with no gotchas - or upgrades, like an 18000 dual G5 + ADSB-In/out might run.


    And I wasn't retired, which means I wasn't flying as much as I could, which is why I went with 50% to double the number.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  29. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    The most important aspect is to retire to something rather than from something. The 2nd important thing is to define "retirement" specifically to you and not what someone else thinks. Then plan the what, where, how of making it happen. While there are literally hundreds of methods out there to calculate how you can retire, none of them can give you the subjective info specific to your situation. This is key.

    For example, I had a long time goal to retire at 50. Most said I was crazy, needed millions, or similar comments. Then 50 came and went with little fanfare--except the "non-retire" party some friends threw. Instead I retired at 53 with $600K in pre-tax 401k/IRA and $380K in post-tax liquidable accounts. It's been 5 years now and all my friends are still working. While you might think you need X dollars or certain planets to line up before you can retire, sit down and look at things seriously. You might be surprised.
     
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  30. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Yes, included all cost related to aircraft ownership
    Yearly fixed/variable
    Hangar- $1140
    Ins- $450
    Annual $2000
    Fuel $4320
    U/E MX $500
     
  31. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Depends on the quality of life, you hope to maintain.
     
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  32. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    $95/month on the hangar? NICE!
     
  33. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    Oppps. Typo. Its $120/mth. However, my total yearly cost factored the $1440 hangar
     
  34. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What would you think about being the poorest guy in the low-cost nursing home?
     
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  35. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Oh, I'm offing myself before it gets to that point. Cash out a bunch of stuff, take an around the world trip, finishing in Africa, and walk off into the bush at night completing the circle of life. Also have stipulations that plugs is to be pulled at a certain financial point in case it's something unexpected.
     
  36. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    And for us older guys that aren't rich, the savings will never be enough to cover a flying hobby budget without income.
     
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  37. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Line Up and Wait

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    I consider that to be acceptable risk. I would be very happy in the TN State VA home my dad is in.
     
  38. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    In my list, this is the one thing I left out that is probably most important; How long do you plan to live? That is a tough question to answer for anyone that is currently healthy.
    Plan for too long and you will have a bunch of cash to put in your coffin.
    Don't plan for long enough and you are looking at some miserable old years.
     
  39. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Rob a bank at gunpoint. If I get caught, you can pay for my welfare. :D
     
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  40. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Bro do you even lift
    I've always figured around $5M to avoid eating in to the principal. The problem is, bank interest is zilch, and unless you go crazy risky on investments, you are losing a LOT of money through inflation.
     
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