Retirement: inside or outside the USA?

G-Man

G-Man

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One of the recurring interesting discussion topics on this forum is what to do after retirement, and what can be done to accelerate retirement, etc., etc.

I'd like to stir the pot!
What are people doing to accelerate retirement?
Let's assume you're already living reasonably frugally, or as much as you want. You know: unless you're hosting The Monkey, your cocaine consumption is modest.

If you're considering leaving the USA, where would you go? If you're staying in the USA, where would you go? Consider the needs for safety of self/family, assets, good climate, access/travel, etc.?

Can you realistically own and fly a private airplane outside the USA?
Etc. Have at it!
 
I best not comment as politics will play a part in the decision.
 
Yeah, let's try to leave the politics out. Maybe focus on weather?
 
I figured that part of my retirement would be the ability to continue to fly. It may just be local flights for pancakes in nice VMC only, but I’m not ready to give that up yet. So somewhere near a reasonable GA lifestyle/location. My wife wants warm, I want low humidity. So somewhere arid but not like Phoenix hot. Realistically we’ll probably stay in or near KC since we have family nearby that we could be taking care of for another 15-20 years. By then we might be too old to do much other than just stay put.
 
This is me.

I technically retired 4 years ago, but am still here for family obligations for the moment.

The venn diagram of "places we like to spend time", "places we'd like to live" and "places we can afford to live, when baking in the rising cost of healthcare" has a very tiny overlap.

My wife holds a UK passport, so this grants me immediate access to NHS as soon as I set foot there with "intent to migrate" on a spousal visa. I can stay there for 3 years and gain a passport.

Healthcare has been driving my life decisions all the way back to the ACA and the 11% penalty for uninsured independent contractors. As such, my plan is likely to gain UK citizenship with a 2.5 year stint in the country (I like the people of Belfast, and the weather is no worse than Portland, but... that's hardly praise) -- then either try to migrate to one of the possessions like Gibraltar and regain sunshine and access to NHS, or migrate "anywhere else" (Africa being our first choice), with the backstop of medically transporting to the UK in the event of something severe/chronic happening medically.

We're about to do another tour around the world and continue scouting. I'm hoping there is an island nation that we can discover is reasonable, has 'enough culture', and 'enough healthcare' to make the move worthwhile.

There are few places outside the US where plane ownership makes any sense. I'm fully expecting to sell it if we leave the US permanently, or maintain a token share in the thing for when we visit family here. More likely the former.
 
Stay in the US. In the northeast (CT or MA). Retired = older = needing more medical attention

and I’d like some of the best medical care there is to offer. From what I’ve seen/experienced the doctors you get in NYC, NJ, CT, and MA are generally more up to date on the latest research & latest procedures than doctors are elsewhere.

sure, it might be more expensive here and the weather may suck 30% of the year,but there are some benefits.

As for NYC, I just don’t like cities.

For NJ, I grew up there and was happy to leave. The traffic is miserable.
 
G-Man said:
Can you realistically own and fly a private airplane outside the USA?
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Not in many places, unless one is quite wealthy. Canada is a good option for plane ownership outside the US. Plus Australia and New Zealand. It can be done in other countries too, but more money and more limitations. Many other countries are smaller geographically, so then there are border issues too.



Wayne
 
While we plan to travel internationally quite a bit we have no plans to move outside the US.

We enjoy visiting other countries, but generally want to get back home; some places sooner than others. Normal is what you are use to. We are use to the US.

Other people want to move in retirement. Some for the lower cost of living. Some as they what a change. Some love another location/culture. One of my ex-coworkers has a place in Costa Rica and goes there regularly. He plans to retire there.

Different strokes for different folks.



Wayne
 
Zeldman said:
I would tell where I want to retire to, but I don't want a bunch of other folks moving there and messing everything up...
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Not only would that not happen, but when you do move there, the current residents will probably move out! ;)
 
G-Man said:
accelerate retirement?
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No such thing. You either plan it or you don't. I retired at 53. Planned it in my 30s.
G-Man said:
leaving the USA
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If you only know USA then stay. If you have lived or stayed extended times in other countries, then maybe. If want to try it out after retirement, visit for extended periods. Lived in SA 3 years, traveled Latin America for 20. While I looked hard at Belize and Costa Rica for retirement, elected to domicile in US for various reasons.;)
 
When I retired (resigned) almost three years ago, I felt that I had a choice of two physical properties that I already owned; one in the far outskirts of Denver (near where @denverpilot lives - you've seen his photos of the area) and the other in the outside lands of San Francisco. I chose to sell the Colorado property because I felt it was too far away from anything. It was OK while I was working, but I thought I would get bored being retired there. I knew what I was getting into, moving to a condo in the city, because I had been visiting frequently over the years, and I lived in SF back in the late 1970s. Also, I wanted to make it my permanent residence for a couple years because of the capital gains exclusion. There are definitely plusses and minuses to living here. If everything was equal, there is no way I would retire here. The cost of housing is incredible. But I don't have that problem. The weather is great. There is a huge variety of things you can do. I have gotten involved in sailing and volunteering on a 1891 scow schooner, among other things. I'm not a city person, but I have adapted. Not sure I will live here permanently though.

As far as living in another country goes, it would be interesting to try, but I haven't identified anywhere else I would want to live, except maybe Canada.
 
Been to numerous countries and have to say, overall I would not live full time outside of the US. Looked at the US Virgin Island, the PR and a few other places but concluded those wouldn’t work for a variety of reasons. However, I would like to spent extended time in a number of countries to better learn and understand the culture, the language, etc. My plan was to rent apartments in various countries for 4 months or so at a time so one could get immersed. The problem is she who probably should be obeyed isn’t on board because of grandchildren, etc. But maybe some day.
 
The last thing I want to do in retirement is to have to earn a new set of friends, find a new doctor, dentist, etc. I'd rather keep the "knowns" in my life and travel to enjoy a bit of variety.
 
Definitely an ongoing consideration where one of us has US, and the other US plus an EU passport. Family is scattered everywhere and health care cost is definitely the unknown regardless of country. On track to retire when the gov't say to retire, but the tech world can be tricky as you get older. Currently looking at FL or Caribbean where we can invest now and retire later, but need to figure out which places can withstand what degree of sea rise. Can buy beach front now, but if it is on stilts in 20 years, that isn't ideal.
 
Jumpmaster said:
in various countries for 4 months or so at a time
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FYI: one thing to keep in mind are the visa policies of the countries you wish to hang out in. Some may only allow 30 days on a non-resident visa. When living in SA I had usually had to take a side trip to a different country to "renew" my visa.
 
I wonder what percentage of folks who decide to retire to Belize, Panama or Thailand are still there 5 years later.
 
weilke said:
I wonder what percentage of folks who decide to retire to Belize, Panama or Thailand are still there 5 years later.
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Can’t speak for Belize or Panama, but for Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, lots of people. Ten years later.

I personally know them.
 
I’m pretty much locked into the US after retirement if I want to continue flying, unless there’s an equivalent to Basic Med elsewhere. Not too many places would let me bring my guns along, either.

Florida has much I like, but if we stay here we’ll need to get away from the crowded areas. The panhandle or big bend areas might be possibilities. Have to have land for my wife’s horses, too.
 
Have a friend the works for Dole Foods... Went to Argentina on a short term assignment and is now permanently there due to the COL and much more.. Wife and I are going there next year to check it out.. they tell me inflation and interest rate are pretty high right now but this is a standard cycle for them..

He is not a pilot but he tells me there is a pretty strong GA component..
 
skier said:
Stay in the US. In the northeast (CT or MA). Retired = older = needing more medical attention

and I’d like some of the best medical care there is to offer. From what I’ve seen/experienced the doctors you get in NYC, NJ, CT, and MA are generally more up to date on the latest research & latest procedures than doctors are elsewhere.

sure, it might be more expensive here and the weather may suck 30% of the year,but there are some benefits.

As for NYC, I just don’t like cities.

For NJ, I grew up there and was happy to leave. The traffic is miserable.
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Living a long life under the boot of NYC or MA, sounds more like purgatory

I’ll take a hard pass on that one lol
 
Guns, Flying and sailing. USA is the only place that I am aware that I can do all three, correct me if I am wrong. I have been outside of the US some. I like Scotland but I can only sail there not the other 2, reasonably. Besides the food...no BBQ. I lived in NZ for a while. Loved the place, great people. I could do 2 out of the three, but it has taken a turn to the left in some ways. Also pretty isolated. Nothing interesting, for me, south of the border. Been to Canada. Pretty scenery. I could fly some and sail some. no guns. Too lefty, too. And Did I mention the French Canadians? :rolleyes2:. Switzerland?, I can do all three but costs, admission is high. France? great food but that is all. Plus who wants to say that you are from France? Nobody ever takes them seriously. Germany, except for the beer parties, they don't seem to really laugh or have any fun. Don't know of any German comedians. Australia has more bureaucracy than we do and every critter wants to kill you. USA for me, no other place will do. I like being an American.
 
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skier said:
and I’d like some of the best medical care there is to offer. From what I’ve seen/experienced the doctors you get in NYC, NJ, CT, and MA are generally more up to date on the latest research & latest procedures than doctors are elsewhere.
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I’m pretty skeptical about that. Florida docs get lots and lots of experience in geriatrics.
 
Everskyward said:
When I retired (resigned) almost three years ago, I felt that I had a choice of two physical properties that I already owned; one in the far outskirts of Denver (near where @denverpilot lives - you've seen his photos of the area) and the other in the outside lands of San Francisco. I chose to sell the Colorado property because I felt it was too far away from anything. It was OK while I was working, but I thought I would get bored being retired there. I knew what I was getting into, moving to a condo in the city, because I had been visiting frequently over the years, and I lived in SF back in the late 1970s. Also, I wanted to make it my permanent residence for a couple years because of the capital gains exclusion. There are definitely plusses and minuses to living here. If everything was equal, there is no way I would retire here. The cost of housing is incredible. But I don't have that problem. The weather is great. There is a huge variety of things you can do. I have gotten involved in sailing and volunteering on a 1891 scow schooner, among other things. I'm not a city person, but I have adapted. Not sure I will live here permanently though.

As far as living in another country goes, it would be interesting to try, but I haven't identified anywhere else I would want to live, except maybe Canada.
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I've watched my aunt and uncle live out their retirement and now final years in the small town where my aunt grew up and then they've lived for the past... 50 years or so, maybe more. One of my cousins (who's physically handicapped and is limited in what she can do) lives with them, but the rest of my cousins and their kids all have moved away. They're basically waiting to die and I feel like part of it is because of the lack of activities (they were never very active people anyway).

Meanwhile, although my mom has her issues, she's living in New York City and spends about 1/3 of the year in her apartment in France. While she can't drive (combination of her vision and she really is just an awful driver), living in NYC and airlining to her apartment in France allows her a lifestyle with a decent amount of activity (by her standards), socialization, etc. If she lived here in KC she would be in a retirement home of some sort by now.

As much as I am not a city person (and especially not NYC, after having been raised there), I can see that if events played out a certain way, moving back there for my final years might not be so bad, especially assuming that some of my best friends from my childhood were still around. Definite advantages.

But as for us, who knows. We'll probably return to some sort of meandering around the US and traveling abroad. Living abroad? I could see living in certain parts of Central America, but I think that, like you, we would get bored without the ability to do various activities. In this country you can do pretty much any activity you want to with relative ease.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
No GA to speak of. Luxury items like cars, etc are more expensive. And with any country, your income/budget is affected by the exchange rate.
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With the way things are going here, IACRA for a student pilots license, FAAs mishandlings, ADSB, more fees everywhere, etc

Frankly by the time I retire I doubt there will be GA except for those with $$$$
 
Would likely retire right in the area we currently live. Low cost of living and tons of family live within an hour of us. I enjoy most of my immediate and extended family, so I have no reason to jump ship from the central US. I could probably move to KC or something similar, but really wouldn’t want to go any further South.

We do like to travel internationally though, so that’s always a plan to continue seeing other countries and cultures. I’d never want to live anywhere else full time though, at least not in terms of my golden years. I’d rather spend it taking trips with kids/grandkids and such.
 
We’re planning to move to Spain for a three month ‘trial’. If we like it then we apply for their non lucrative visa. Love the scenery & lifestyle, although visiting as a tourist is very different from living there for sure. But at least health care is affordable. We’re looking especially at San Sebastián and the northern coast as a target.

If we stay in the US it will be New England or California, based on family ties and cultural preference. I own a couple of properties in CA but not sure I can deal with the earthquake- fire - drought drama.
 
I’m nearing retirement and have been living in Norway for decades. One thing to consider, the fluctuating exchange rates will I think play into it. The Norwegian kroner goes up and down against the dollar and I assume my retirement soc. security payments will be in USD. I don’t know yet how they pay one outside the US, if it is direct deposit or a check. If a check, which I believe it will be, you need to have a bank that will cash checks from another country without huge delays. Also I have set up a USD account. Which means I can put USD into it, and convert when I think the rate is decent, so if kroner falls for a while against USD I can sit on it, but USD accounts have little to no interest, so it’s a toss up between losing money to inflation or not earning what I could against exchange rate.

There is also the matter of income tax, and required each year, even though you owe no taxes to the US to both file income tax, which is very complicated and costs me around $600 per year to have experts do it, and have to file online for every bank account you have and how much money is in each as well as the highest amount that has been in the account for the year (supposedly to fight money laundering and tax evasion).

I have to also file income tax in Norway, so it really is a PITA that costs both time and money.
Last I heard the US and Eritrea are the only countries that demand expatriates file income tax, when they are being taxed in the county they are living in.

just some other practical aspects that you might need to consider.
 
If you are a US citizen, you can receive social security while living abroad. If you also receive a pension from the government of that country, there is a 'anti windfall provision' that caps the total you can receive.

If you worked in the US, you paid substantial amounts of medicare tax to become eligible for medicare in retirement. Medicare only pays for services while you are in the US or a US colony. There is no premium for part A (hospitalization), if you want to be able to use part B (outpatient services) while in the US you need to enroll and start paying your $200/month premium once you are social security eligible. If you say 'oh, I don't enroll until I need it', you will incur a penalty when you enroll some years later (there may be an exemption for expat retirees, never checked).

To circumvent some of those MC/SS restrictions, many expat retirees maintain an address and a bank account in the US, e.g. at their kids place and pretend they are US residents for social security/medicare purposes. This can get sticky if they also file income tax as an expat to take advantage of the exemptions that apply to that.

Much of this is governed by social security and double taxation treaties the US has with many but not all countries . Depending on your assets and your sources of retirement income, the differences between countries can be substantial. For each country, there is a cottage industry of accountants who make a living on advising those who go back and forth. An income millionaire who lives in Switzerland and the US is a different story from a retired city employee who goes back and forth to the Phillipines.
 
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I'll stick with USA.
Tennessee has higher sales taxes, but no income tax. It has seasons... This year,5 of 'em (the one we're in is monsoon!). Nice people that don't treat Yankees like me too bad. I'm better'n a half-back anyway....
 
CharlieD3 said:
I'll stick with USA...
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Yep, me too. Most of our family is in NC. I would much rather stay near family during my retirement, than living in some really nice location climate-wise. Other than the summer humidity, the climate is not bad here anyway.

Now, if we didn't have much local family, or had strained relationships with them, it might be a different story. But we do have good family, and I want to spend my last years with them.

We can still hop on a plane and visit places anywhere we want to.
 
skier said:
From what I’ve seen/experienced the doctors you get in NYC, NJ, CT, and MA are generally more up to date on the latest research & latest procedures than doctors are elsewhere.
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I live in a smaller southern city, and we have two top notch hospitals in the area. My cardiologist did his undergrad at Princeton, med school at Harvard Med, internship at Mass Gen, and cardio fellowship at Johns Hopkins. I'm quite satisfied with his education, qualifications and care.
 
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