Resigning from the HIMS Program

Discussion in 'Medical Topics' started by Sofly21, May 12, 2020.

  1. Sofly21

    Sofly21 Filing Flight Plan

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    So I recently figured after 2 years of being in the HIMS program and finally getting to fly that I hate it. I sent my medical back to the FAA with a letter that basically said I'm no longer interested in being a pilot, I would like to resign from the HIMS program. Ultimately, what is next? Will they continue to bother me with tests? I am not an addict. This all started cuz I tried pot when I was 18 once and told them on my first medical app.
     
  2. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    Don't you have some sort of point of contact with the HIMS program? Contact them.
     
  3. Sofly21

    Sofly21 Filing Flight Plan

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    My AME isnt the greatest of help. He was the only one within 50 miles. I did as he instructed to mail the medical back. I'm just wondering if this is finally the end of will the FAA still continue to bother me?
     
  4. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    No idea. If they do, tell them your situation and I'm sure there is a way to take you off the list.
     
  5. jstone

    jstone Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I’m sorry to hear that after all the effort you put in that flying is not for you. How many years were you supposed to be monitored for? Try calling Oklahoma City tomorrow and they might be able to give you more information about your resignation from the program 405-954-4821

    the good news is that if you ever decide to get back into flying for whatever reason you should be able to do basicmed unless the faa is sheisty and withdraws your medical.
     
  6. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    They will almost certainly send you a letter telling you that you no longer are medically qualified and that you need to stop flying. It matters not that you were quitting. If there's one thing CAMI knows how to do is cover their posteriors.
     
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  7. Benw

    Benw Pre-Flight

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    What about flying did you hate?
     
  8. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    no, the FAA will withdraw the medical. Even sport is off the table.

    In the end, the FAA would rather have 100 false negatives than a single false positive.
     
  9. skier

    skier Line Up and Wait

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    there’s still lighter than air, gliders, and ultralights.
     
  10. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Geez, I could have figured that out in a few lessons without even getting a medical. Then I'd still have options.
     
  11. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Finally a new topic in Medical Matters. But 21 years old and already gave up flying? I'm going to guess hanging out with his 420 friends was more interesting than flying.
     
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  12. Doug Reid

    Doug Reid Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sometimes I think I am the only person who can spot a Troll...geez.
     
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  13. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Bill Clinton once said that if you didn’t inhale you’re good to go!
     
  14. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    Cigars were his gateway.
     
  15. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    He did have nice humidors!
     
  16. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    Lol
     
  17. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Do you actually have to do anything?
    Can't you just drop it?
    Are you sure you are done with flying? Here you are, on a pilot website!
     
  18. sarangan

    sarangan Cleared for Takeoff

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    Sorry, what exactly is HIMS? I googled it and got "Hims, a men's-health startup known for selling generic Viagra and medications for hair loss".
     
  19. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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  20. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    You should try google "FAA HIMS"

    http://www.airspacedoc.com/hims-program/
     
  21. Larry Vrooman

    Larry Vrooman Pre-takeoff checklist

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    HIMS stands for the Human Intervention Motivation Study, which had its roots in an airline pilot organization initiative in the 1970s designed to help keep alcoholic airline pilots in the cockpit.

    As such the original scope was working airline pilots with diagnosed addiction problems. Unfortunately it's underwent a significant amount of regulatory creep well beyond the original applicability and severity intended in the original program, to the extent that it has expanded to cover commercial, private, and sport pilots - pretty much any pilot who needs a medical to fly - with very broad screen in criteria and very restrictive screen out criteria.

    If you look at the alcohol staut sheet you'll see this:

    1. List DATE(s) of any arrest, conviction or administrative action here: __________________

    2. Number of alcohol related events in the airman’s lifetime?

    3. AIRMAN’s STATEMENT Do you find any evidence of current or previous alcohol abuse, dependence or other concerning behaviors?

    4. BLOOD/BREATH ALCOHOL CONTENT (BAC) from all offenses:
    Did the airman ever REFUSE TO TEST?
    Missing records of test performed (per the airman)?
    Any BAC in the records of 0.15 g/dl or HIGHER
    List the highest BAC found on report(s) here: _________

    5. COURT RECORD(s) AND ARREST RECORD(s): (including military records) Did the airman fail to provide a copy of the narrative police/investigative report from all offenses and complete copies of all court records associated with the offense(s) including court-ordered education?

    6. DRIVING RECORD: AME must review a complete Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) record. List all states the airman held a driver’s license for the past 10 years. 1. 3. 2. 4. Any additional driving offenses involving alcohol or other concerns not listed in #1?

    7. EVIDENCE OF TREATMENT: Did the airman attend any inpatient or outpatient rehabilitation or treatment? (Do not include court-ordered education programs.)

    8. Is there any history or evidence of any DRUG (illicit, Rx, etc.) offense at any time?

    9. Do you have ANY concerns regarding this airman? If yes, notate in Block 60

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...ame/guide/media/AlcoholStatusReportforAME.pdf

    If you have 2 or more under question 2, a "yes" to any of the other questions, or a record of a BAC .05 or higher, your medical will get deferred and you're probably going to be in the program.

    The FAA's criteria is well in excess of the accepted diagnostic criteria used in the DSM-V, and the FAA readily admits that based on the need for public safety taking precedence over the rights of individual pilots. That position made perfect sense, when it was addressing airline pilots with addiction problems. It makes a lot less sense for a sport pilot flying an LSA or a private pilot flying a C152, etc. That's especially true given that normal youth/young adult drinking patterns normally involve at least a couple drinking sessions where BAC is in excess of 1.5 and to a less common extent where someone has experimented with marijuana. Very few of those individuals develop substance abuse problems, but they are all prone to being swept into the HIMS program, based on anything in their personal statement, or an arrest record with 2 or more incidents of a BAC of .15 or above, regardless of conviction.

    Worse, once someone is in the program the HIMS AMEs charter is to look for evidence proving a problem while requiring the individual to prove they do not have a problem, so it's by design a fairly adversarial system where substance abuse is assumed, despite all evidence to the contrary.

    ----

    Don't get me wrong, I started out in law enforcement and spent most of my federal career in positions that required a fairly high level security clearance, and I am generally intolerant of people who drink or use drugs. But I also spent a lot of years watching staff trained as attorneys in the federal government get carried away with the "narrow read of the law" approach to determining statutory intent in regulations and regulatory guidance and enforcement, to the extent that they lose sight of both common sense, and the big picture, if they ever had any amount of either. I'm also a trained counselor with a history of teaching ethics at the university level, and this kind of misapplication of both the scope of the law, and ignoring accepted diagnostic criteria rubs me the wrong way.
     
  22. illprepar3d

    illprepar3d Filing Flight Plan

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    Hey guys, I've currently been in the HIMs program for about 3 years now. If anyone has any questions (What to expect, cost, lifestyle change, etc) feel free to ask. I'd also like someone to chime in about after the HIMs program has been completed and the issuance of a SODA. Anyone have any experience? If I've posted this in the wrong forum, I apologize. Thanks
     
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  23. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

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    Throwing an ugly accusation without any evidence is just a cheap shot that reflects poorly on you.

    Congratulations for being that guy. :rolleyes:
     
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  24. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    That's very sweet of you to defend the OP but considering his first post was at 6:04pm on 5/12, and his last visit on POA was 3 minutes later, Chances are he'll never come back here to get his feelings hurt.
     
  25. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    I am also curious about what he hated about flying. And am sorry he did not get a chance to figure that out before going through all that work.
     
  26. jonvcaples

    jonvcaples Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm having problems understanding why OP cares what the FAA might do in the future if he has truly given up on flying. Also curious about why his AME told him to send his medical back.
     
  27. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    For the OP's original question, mailing in the medical certificate is the appropriate thing to do.

    If you voluntarily turn in your medical certificate (assuming you are not doing so to avoid enforcement action) the FAA considers you no longer medical certificated, and you no longer have to adhere to the requirements of the associated special issuance. Under normal circumstances, if you dropped out of a HIMS required monitoring program, the FAA would withdraw the SI and revoke the medical certificate. That could have significant ramifications later on if he were to ever want to get his medical back, and FWIW, would also disqualify him from BasicMed.
     
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  28. jstone

    jstone Ejection Handle Pulled

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    @Brad Z

    I am awaiting special issuance from the faa. If I am put on 3 years monitoring and decide I don’t want to be in HIMS anymore and want to switch to basic med could I just mail in my medical like the OP is talking about? Or would exiting HIMS disqualify me from basic med and sport pilot? Assuming I am actually granted an SI of course.
     
  29. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    This may help answer your question:

    https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2018/Domingo-AFX-1-2%20-%20(2018)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
     
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  30. illprepar3d

    illprepar3d Filing Flight Plan

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    Short answer, No. If an airman requires an SI, Basic Med and Sport Pilot no longer apply. Even after you've received a SODA, I believe you still don't qualify for those options. But Brad's post will help with a more accurate interpretation :)
     
  31. jstone

    jstone Ejection Handle Pulled

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    after you receive a special issuance you become eligible for basic med. a special issuance and a SODA are 2 separate ways to get a medical al so I’m not quite sure what you’re saying. Going thru HIMS and being successful results in a special issuance, not a Soda
     
  32. jstone

    jstone Ejection Handle Pulled

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  33. illprepar3d

    illprepar3d Filing Flight Plan

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    I suppose it does depend on the basis of the special issuance you require, apologies for the misinterpretation. However, Typically after successfully completing HIMs monitoring for an SI, you will receive a statement of demonstrated ability (SODA) in place of the original special issuance, no longer requiring HIMS or monitoring. You just have the SODA letter and can go to any AME. If you need to be monitored for 3 years, your SI will most likely ONLY be issued on the basis of compliance with any stipulations of the FAA during that duration. If you cease HIMs, your SI will be taken away. If you have a disqualifying condition requiring an SI, I pretty sure you're in violation of part 68 and don't qualify for basic med. Just my understanding with 3 years in the HIMS program. Hopefully someone like Dr. Bruce could chime in and correct me if I'm incorrect.
     
  34. Dana

    Dana Pattern Altitude

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    That is not correct. You are eligible to fly under Basicmed if you had a medical, SI or not, after 7/15/2006 and your most recent medical or SI was not revoked (only if you develop certain cardiac, neurological, or mental health conditions, you will need a one-time-only special issuance). You can fly under SP as long as you have a drivers license and your most recent medical, if you ever had one, SI or not, was not revoked.

    A SODA is something completely different; it's a process, which may include a flight test, to prove that a person with a handicap (amputated limb, blind in one eye, etc.) can safely fly.
     
  35. illprepar3d

    illprepar3d Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks for the clarification Dana and sorry for the misinformation J. Stone.
     
  36. illprepar3d

    illprepar3d Filing Flight Plan

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    @Dana, could you shed some light for me. I'm a little confused at this situation. Why else would he have to be monitored (HIMS) unless the SI issuance is based on the compliance of that monitoring? If he straight out receives an SI without monitoring, then no issue. But if the FAA requests monitoring for 3 years, are you saying that he could say "no thanks", and just do basic med? Not prying, would just like a better understanding. I'm trying to help several people out with this. Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  37. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    In the requirements for BasicMed, 14 CFR 61.23(c)(3)(ii)(A) states that the most recently issued medical certificate may include an authorization for special issuance. There are certain medical conditions that one must have held a SI for prior to operating under BasicMed. Those conditions are listed in 14 CFR 68.9.

    A SODA doesn’t apply in the scenario you described above.
     
  38. illprepar3d

    illprepar3d Filing Flight Plan

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    I understand that the most recent medical may include an SI. However, J stone must have had his 8500 deferred to the FAA that may require HIMS monitoring. If HIMS is required, I don't believe he can switch to basicmed. If monitoring is not required, nonissue. If he already had an SI issued prior to this submission, why would he be questioning whether he receives an SI this time? I think i'm making a poor attempt to read into j stones context rather than generalization. Also, After receiving an SI and after successful monitoring for x amount of years for "alcohol abuse," I'm fairly certain you receive a SODA at the completion. There lied my confusion lol. Thanks for the clarifications guys.
     
  39. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    So how does this come into play? It seems this could be justification for the FAA requiring entry into HIMS even under basicmed. All it would take is some do gooder to accuse you of drinking and flying and you would suddenly become presumed to be a problem. The FAA’s solution may be that additional information is required in the form of proving your compliance.

    14 VFR 68.11 Authority to require additional information.
    (a) If the Administrator receives credible or urgent information, including from the National Driver Register or the Administrator's Safety Hotline, that reflects on an individual's ability to safely operate an aircraft under § 61.113(i) of this chapter, the Administrator may require the individual to provide additional information or history so that the Administrator may determine whether the individual is safe to continue operating under that section.

    (b) The Administrator may use credible or urgent information received under paragraph (a) to request an individual to provide additional information or to take actions under 49 U.S.C. 44709(b).
     
  40. jonvcaples

    jonvcaples Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Hopefully one of our resident AME's can give us a factual answer.

    I would guess that anyone who needs a SODA or SI would not be eligible for Basic Med.