Required items in a lesson plan

PeterNSteinmetz

PeterNSteinmetz

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PeterNSteinmetz
Another question related to my thread on purchasing lesson plans.

Is there an explicit requirement that all the items mentioned in the PTS for a particular task be covered in a lesson on that task?

For example, consider section II B, Runway incursion avoidance. There are 17 specific items listed there. Is there an FAA requirement that a lesson on runway incursion avoidance given by the CFI applicant must include all 17 items to be considered satisfactory? Is that a common standard which is used by DPEs?

And if it is a requirement, where is that documented in an advisory circular, handbook, order, or regulation?

Again it seems the new CFI applicant ought to be able to refer to some official document or guidance on this.

Thanks again for the informative answers on my other related questions.
 
The requirement is "the applicant exhibits instructional knowledge of the elements related to..."

So for the examination, you need to have the knowledge of the items listed in enough depth to cover them. And I have been told to be ready to explain each part. Though some times there is overlap so one segment of what your talking about might check more than one box.

Referencing the proper handbook, AIM chapter/page, or AC is always a good idea. My plans start off with these being on the whiteboard, and then as I do a section, I'll mention that this bit comes from which reference or more additional detail can be found in that reference.

Sending you a PM for other things.
 
AggieMike88 said:
The requirement is "the applicant exhibits instructional knowledge of the elements related to..."

So for the examination, you need to have the knowledge of the items listed in enough depth to cover them. And I have been told to be ready to explain each part. Though some times there is overlap so one segment of what your talking about might check more than one box.

.
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Thanks. What I am trying to understand though is if there is a requirement that a lesson given must mention all the listed items the first time given - if that is the appropriate examination standard? And if so, where is that documented so that a new applicant could know that?
 
A "lesson plan" is a unique one-time schedule for the time period you are about to begin. Customized for the environment and for the student. Maybe the very first flight could have a standard. Or a pre-solo prog check. Other than like that, not hardly.
 
Look in the current PTS, Page 4, below the list of reference material... Starts with "The Objective lists...."

Also page 5, 2nd paragraph that starts, "The Objective of a Task...." and has 4 numbered elements below that.
 
dtuuri said:
A "lesson plan" is a unique one-time schedule for the time period you are about to begin. Customized for the environment and for the student.
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Yes, thanks, that is what I try to do. However, I am trying to understand if there is any basis in an examination for a DPE to assert during an exam that it is required that a lesson plan cover all items mentioned for a task in the PTS. And that if the lesson fails to do so, it is thus necessarily unsatisfactory. Where is that requirement, if it exists, documented?
 
The lesson you are to teach on the checkride is supposed to be selected from a task contained in AoA VII through XIII. Runway Incursions is not one of them.

If you were expected make every task in the PTS into a lesson on the checkride, the checkride would take weeks.
 
dtuuri said:
A "lesson plan" is a unique one-time schedule for the time period you are about to begin. Customized for the environment and for the student. Maybe the very first flight could have a standard. Or a pre-solo prog check. Other than like that, not hardly.
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Yup... and the formal plan you have in your binder is your "this is all the relevant information for the subject" reference. As the instructor, you take that and bend it to your needs to fit the student(s) and the situation.

Using your example of Runway Incursion Avoidance. If the student has seen/heard none of it yet, then you might be ready to present the whole thing, or the pieces that are relevant to their current experience. Or if you have been talking it up throughout the flight training to date, you can reference the experiences to this knowledge, but only dwell on it as long as needed for the insights and "ah hah!" Moments to happen fast and furiously.
 
dmspilot said:
Runway Incursions is not one of them.
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Respectfully disagree. Please check page 31 of the current PTS.

"II. Technical Subject Areas

Note: The examiner must select Tasks B, M, and at least one other Task"

B is Runway Incursion Avoidance
M is Logbook and Endorsements
 
dmspilot said:
What do you disagree with?
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You saying That Runway Incursion Avoidance was not part of the items the examiner will test on. Thought I quoted that part of your post.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Yup... and the formal plan you have in your binder is your "this is all the relevant information for the subject" reference.
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That there is what the FAA calls (or used to) a "Flight Instruction Breakdown", IIRC (EDIT: And I do). I never needed one because I just grab the AFH. Like Prego, "It's in there."
 
AggieMike88 said:
Look in the current PTS, Page 4, below the list of reference material... Starts with "The Objective lists...."

Also page 5, 2nd paragraph that starts, "The Objective of a Task...." and has 4 numbered elements below that.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I see that. When I read that, I read it as saying that the applicant must have the knowledge and be able to teach those areas, but not a requirement or guideline that all lessons given by the applicant on the task must include all of those items in the lesson.

Do you read it that latter way?

I definitely do not mean to be difficult here, but am trying to parse this in a precise regulatory manner and see if there is support for the assertion that a lesson on a task must contain all the items mentioned or it must be considered unsatisfactory per FAA requirements.
 
@PeterNSteinmetz ... now I grok what you're stabbing at....

I think you're question is reaching into the subjective realm of what the examiner is wanting to see. I have heard of several who would super super sticky on wanting to see all the bits listed in the PTS. And I have heard of a few that lean the way you describe.

So from my (limited) exposure, it's big grey zone.

For my upcoming exam, I'm preparing for the super sticky and hoping it's more grey.
 
Ian Pilot said:
Last resort the FAA website has all the ACS for everything... austere reading but gives you everything. And yes it specifies what may be included. Not all items but a few... one knowledge element, one risk assessment element and one practical element.

https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/
Click to expand...

Correct for those items that use the ACS system.

Instructor is still on the PTS system at the moment.

But the change will happen. A draft ACS for Instructor was published earlier this summer. No info yet on adoption date.
 
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