Reporting low altitude aircraft?

[geneseib]

Hey guys, just had an aircraft buzz over the airfield here. Very low passes, repeatedly over the field. No radio call either. After buzzing the field a few times, the pilot flew over the town at the same low altitude and did some pretty steep turns. One of the other pilots here got a video and I got the tail number with binocs. Curious as to where exactly to report it to the right channels.

By all means, snitch to Big Brother.

 

[MachFly]

I might grab a screen cap from the video (when I get a copy) that shows how low he is so that people don't think I'm insane and totally unable to judge distance and altitude.

Please do.
Make sure you block out the tail number.

 

[overdrive148]

By all means, snitch to Big Brother.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on...this

Okay, since you're begging the question...

What is there to be gained by not reporting someone who is flying dangerously, over a town and an airport at low altitude?

Or seeing a student jumping into a plane about to go flying off into IMC and worsening conditions that you just got out of without saying anything because it doesn't concern you?

Or letting traffic enroute to the airport know about a NORDO guy doing touch and go's before they arrive at the pattern?

Or calling up on the CTAF to let a guy ahead of you about to take off know that his tire is low, or his seatbelt is hanging out of the door, or that he left his fuel caps off?

It's all about safety and watching out for one another, for better or worse. I don't want that guy to end up killing himself or someone else so I choose to report it.

 

[James331]

You should be required to issue a NOTAM when you are near an airport so all pilots will know you are watching. What a joke.

What airport are you out of?

I would like to avoid it by a large margin. Last thing I need is some low time dude thinking he sees something, bothering the Feds, thus the Feds start bothering me.

Like other have said, if you won't talk/write the guy in person first I really have little respect, you will find this industry is very small, sometimes it's better to not go to red alert mode for every little thing you see until you have the entire story, and even then

Okay, since you're begging the question...

What is there to be gained by not reporting someone who is flying dangerously, over a town and an airport at low altitude?

Or seeing a student jumping into a plane about to go flying off into IMC and worsening conditions that you just got out of without saying anything because it doesn't concern you?

Or letting traffic enroute to the airport know about a NORDO guy doing touch and go's before they arrive at the pattern?

All of those examples would not require whining to the Fed.

With the student example I would talk to him, maybe get his FBO or CFI involved if I had time, all else fails maybe swipe the key out of the mags when we wasnt looking, snitching to the Feds won't save him, by the time they send him a letter hell already be a CFIT, just a CFIT with a record after the fact.

The second one, same deal, Feds arnt going to save anyone, YOU telling other folks might give them a heads up and help

 

[Kelvin]

I'm pretty sure that "flaunting" the rules has never caused an aircraft accident!

Yeah, your right...my southern accent and the droid don't play well some days...

Sentiment still stands on the post...

"Flouting" was the word I was looking for...

 

[FastEddieB]

I disagree that age is a factor here.

At all.

From another Phil Ochs song*...

"Ah, but I've grown older and wiser,
And that's why I'm turning you in."


*Love Me, I'm A Liberal". Worth searching for on YouTube for how things don't change much after about 50 years.

 

[overdrive148]

What airport are you out of?

I would like to avoid it by a large margin. Last thing I need is some low time dude thinking he sees something, bothering the Feds, thus the Feds start bothering me.

Like other have said, if you won't talk/write the guy in person first I really have little respect, you will find this industry is very small, sometimes it's better to not go to red alert mode for every little thing you see until you have the entire story, and even then

I work at KSNL, learned to fly at KAPV.

I prefer to disagree. If people on a forum here, including yourself, aren't taking me seriously describing a clear violation of the FAR's, then what's the chance he'd listen to me? The FAA is much better at correcting behavior and punishing those who deserve to be punished.

If you're cutting a wide berth around where I'm located, not only is it pretty immature but it might say something about your flying I'm talking about reporting a guy who was being reckless. Are you flying recklessly? If yes, then yeah, of course I'm going to say something. If not, then you have nothing to be worried about.

Also me being a "low-time" dude has already been beaten to death with a stick earlier in the thread, if you'd like to take a whack at the fact I'm "young" (23 years old), I'd also tell you it's been brought up and abandoned. People with more and less hours than me fly better and worse. It is (obviously) no significant measure of safety or sanity.

The industry may be very small, but I'm not about to go walking on eggshells to not upset anyone when a pilot is clearly endangering himself and others flying in a stupid way that is against the FAR's. Just letting things slide and becoming complacent in response to things in aviation is not what pilots are supposed to do. How many hours do you have?

All of those examples would not require whining to the Fed.

With the student example I would talk to him, maybe get his FBO or CFI involved in that didnt work and I had time, all else fails maybe swipe the key out of the mags when we wasnt looking, snitching to the Feds and by the time they send him a letter hell already be a CFIT, just a CFIT with a record after the fact.

The second one, same deal, Feds arnt going to save anyone, YOU telling other folks might give them a heads up and help

Of course they don't require "whining to the Fed". None of those are situations in which you have to report a thing. Earlier in the thread (and from your post from what I gather), a position was taken that if it doesn't directly involve you, leave it be. That view is bull****.

The "Feds" aren't against you - they do the research, they investigate the accidents, they enforce regulations from findings in accidents that have killed pilots. Why? To prevent more pilots from being killed. They aren't there to screw with you, they aren't a bigger bully or a parent to go tattle to. They are there to enhance safety. Having that us vs them mentality is stupid.

If the "Feds" don't or won't do anything about it, why do FSDO's exist? Why is there a process of reporting? Why is there a FAR book in the first place? Your logic appears pretty flawed to me.

The examples from my post are there to draw out one conclusion - safety is everyone's responsibility. There is no exception.


A couple good quotes.

"By far the greater number of aeroplane accidents are due to precisely the same circumstances that have caused previous accidents. A distressing feature of these accidents is the evidence they afford of the unwillingness, or the inability, of many pilots to profit from the experiences and mistakes of others."

"Whenever we talk about a pilot who has been killed in a flying accident, we should all keep one thing in mind. He called upon the sum of all his knowledge and made a judgment. He believed in it so strongly that he knowingly bet his life on it. That his judgment was faulty is a tragedy, not stupidity. Every instructor, supervisor, and contemporary who ever spoke to him had an opportunity to influence his judgment, so a little bit of all of us goes with every pilot we lose."

 

[KA550]

Graduated from ERAU last month, BS Professional Aeronautics, Management and Aviation Safety double minor.

Explains a lot. Be sure to include this, along with the fact your girlfriend was in town, when you call the FSDO. That will move it right to the top of their inbox.

With those qualifications, you should probably just call the Administrator on Monday morning. I am sure he will take time to give your input the proper priority it deserves.

 

[overdrive148]

Explains a lot. Be sure to include this, along with the fact your girlfriend was in town, when you call the FSDO. That will move it right to the top of their inbox.

With those qualifications, you should probably just call the Administrator on Monday morning. I am sure he will take time to give your input the proper priority it deserves.

I didn't mention my "qualifications", my age, my total hours, or the circumstances of my girlfriend's location to justify my report to the FSDO. All of those were posted in the thread in response to other users. You still didn't answer my question a few posts back, by the way.

 

[James331]

If you're cutting a wide berth around where I'm located, not only is it pretty immature but it might say something about your flying I'm talking about reporting a guy who was being reckless. Are you flying recklessly? If yes, then yeah, of course I'm going to say something. If not, then you have nothing to be worried about.

Also me being a "low-time" dude has already been beaten to death with a stick earlier in the thread, if you'd like to take a whack at the fact I'm "young" (23 years old), I'd also tell you it's been brought up and abandoned. People with more and less hours than me fly better and worse. It is (obviously) no significant measure of safety or sanity.

The industry may be very small, but I'm not about to go walking on eggshells to not upset anyone when a pilot is clearly endangering himself and others flying in a stupid way that is against the FAR's. Just letting things slide and becoming complacent in response to things in aviation is not what pilots are supposed to do. How many hours do you have?

I don't care about your childhood life, zero factor in this discussion.

And you ARE walking on egg shells, you're too afraid to talk with this man yourself, or even try to make the change you want to see, you just delegate responsibility from the comfort of your smart phone.

I would avoid you because a busy body is not something I want to deal with, I follow all the FARs, I have control over my aircraft, however I have no control over some dude who actually filmed and brought out optics to try to bust someone.

What was your first thought when you busted the optics out, I'm going to get this guy busted, or, I'm going to help this guy?? I believe you actions and lack of actions have proven the former.

Also keep in mind if this guy is a career pilot in his personal plane and you do this and the feds (or maybe later civil judge) say you were wrong, I wouldn't be half surprised if he sues the living crap out of you, I know I would.

The crux of the matter here is learning to deal with problems you see YOURSELF, it's a disease of a few generations now, it ain't a DIY culture, its a DIFM (do it for me), what happens when your friendly government official isn't there, or can't/won't solve your problems for you?


As for me and my age, I'm not that much older compared to you, though I'm a professional pilot, instructor and an ATP.

 

[Palmpilot]

Explains a lot. Be sure to include this, along with the fact your girlfriend was in town, when you call the FSDO. That will move it right to the top of their inbox.

With those qualifications, you should probably just call the Administrator on Monday morning. I am sure he will take time to give your input the proper priority it deserves.

I fail to see the relevance in this situation.

 

[overdrive148]

I don't care about your childhood life, zero factor in this discussion.

And you ARE walking on egg shells, you're too afraid to talk with this man yourself, or even try to make the change you want to see, you just delegate responsibility from the comfort of your smart phone.

I would avoid you because a busy body is not something I want to deal with, I follow all the FARs, I have control over my aircraft, however I have no control over some dude who actually filmed and brought out optics to try to bust someone.

What was your first thought when you busted the optics out, I'm going to get this guy busted, or, I'm going to help this guy?? I believe you actions and lack of actions have proven the former.

Also keep in mind if this guy is a career pilot in his personal plane and you do this and the feds (or maybe later civil judge) say you were wrong, I wouldn't be half surprised if he sues the living crap out of you, I know I would.

The crux of the matter here is learning to deal with problems you see YOURSELF, it's a disease of a few generations now, it ain't a DIY culture, its a DIFM (do it for me), what happens when your friendly government official isn't there, or can't/won't solve your problems for you?


As for me and my age, I'm not that much older compared to you, though I'm a professional pilot, instructor and an ATP.

Okay...first, I think you need to look up the definition of "walking on eggshells" and how I'm not doing that. A lot of people in this thread are pretty upset with the idea of me reporting someone who was, by my account, being reckless and flying under reg altitudes and I'm not exactly being gentle about it. Someone who didn't want to walk on eggshells and be complacent would just not report it. Which one are you? Are you the guy who is going to challenge your Captain if you see something going wrong or out of place? Or are you going to just sit there and ride it down without challenging the captain because its better not to intervene? I would think a professional, ATP rated pilot would know at least that much about crew resource management.

Go on. Tell me it doesn't matter or it doesn't happen in aviation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_173
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Air_Flight_6560

If you object to the idea of someone cross checking the way you are flying and being completely ignorant and borderline rude about people trying to ensure you and the people underneath you are safe, then you are just like the Captains not listening to the challenges of your crew in these accidents and more.

Not trying to make the change I want to see? Clearly! Thank you for reading the rest of the thread to get up to speed with my opinion on the matter and my efforts to report this, as well as my opinion on aviation safety in relation to other pilots in the thread and overall.

I'm a busybody? I was sitting in the FBO checking the weather when I hear a very low aircraft buzz the terminal. Yeah, I'm that guy on the apron with the pointy fingers and the evil grin trying to catch poor pilots unaware so I can get back at them for some unknown reason. Please. I saw an aircraft flying dangerously and I got the tail number. Another pilot got video. That was my first reaction and intention. Should the guy be busted for breaking the FAR minimum altitudes? If you've read anything I've posted here so far, the answer is a resounding "yes".

Your comment about "delegating responsibility from the comfort of my smart phone is so far off the mark - yeah, I'm in charge of the airport and as the airport authority I'm sort of supposed to be responsible about the goings-on around the airport. I don't know if you read that it's sort of my job. You come across as ignorant and condescending about someone younger, especially in regards to "smart phone" and "friendly government", with subtle hints of it in the "generations now" comment. Just to avoid entering the Spin Zone, I do not own an "obamaphone" nor am I part of the "generation looking for free handouts". Please keep it topic related, and ignorant stereotypes about younger people out of this thread.

Also, keep in mind that as a career pilot, if I saw you flying in a reckless manner, I'd just as soon shoot video of you and take your tail number down. You know why? Because it doesn't matter who is flying the plane. It is flying in a dangerous manner and the pilot should not be doing so. I don't care if they have a career or if they are a student. An airplane will kill you and other people just the same from C-172 to 747.

I don't know why the opinion of "don't report him because you might get him in trouble" or "might get it back on you" or "might inconvenience him" is so prevalent in this thread. He brought it on himself by doing what he did. The FSDO has the report option for a reason, and if the FSDO decides to take up the investigation and hand out some punishment, then that's not coming back on me. If some guy asked you over the CTAF if your fuel caps were in properly because he thought he saw one askew, would you yell at him for trying to ensure you were safe or would you double check and thank the guy?

Do you like FAR's being written in blood? If not, the one who needs to change their perspective from passive and "it's not my problem" to a more proactive one is you. I would think that a higher time, more experienced pilot would also share that belief. Sure, getting a call from a FSDO is an inconvenience. Dying is also an inconvenience. Which would you rather have?

If the FSDO had a video that looked like you were legitimately flying too low, it's not my fault for reporting it - it's YOUR fault for flying that way. A report is a report. I like how you're acting like I don't know what I'm talking about or that I don't have a case - I saw it and I saw the video. I have my stamped "officially affected" badge to show that.

I also think that a problem with people nowadays is the "don't sue me" mentality. If I'm looking out for general safety for a pretty clear violation of the regulations then sue away after the FSDO is done with you, good luck winning that one. I am not running around and writing tail numbers down while rubbing my hands together fiendishly to call the FSDO and report that they did something minor.

I am learning to deal with the problem myself. If I didn't care I wouldn't have bothered taking video, taking the tail number down, looking up his info, and posting here to learn how to report it to the FAA. I don't know how much more "DIY" I can get in reporting a reckless pilot to the FAA. The FAA exists to increase safety, it sounds like you don't understand that so well.

 

[ARFlyer]

Ok, I'll say my 2c.

If you see him again, get out and tell him your thoughts in a civilized manner. Going face to face with the guy instead of telling on him to the higher up will get you further. He might just blow of the FAA guy and get ****ed off someone called him in without going to him first.

The 5 years of going to college and flight instructing has slowly taught me that lesson. Running off and telling the boss XYZ is doing XYZ will only get both the boss and the dude ****ed off at you. I use to do that, but a year or so ago someone pulled me to the side and told me, not so nicely, to quit it.

Long story short. Going to the guy with your thoughts about his actions will get you further then just turning him in. If he continues to do the unsafe/illegal action then and ONLY THEN pass it up the chain.

This applies to any issue you have with anyone.

Oh and dude Respect the CHAIN. People in charge tend to get ****y, rightfully so, if you go around them to their boss.

 

[overdrive148]

Ok, I'll say my 2c.

If you see him again, get out and tell him your thoughts in a civilized manner. Going face to face with the guy instead of telling on him to the higher up will get you further. He might just blow of the FAA guy and get ****ed off someone called him in without going to him first.

In my 5 years of going to college and my current job has slowly taught me that lesson. Running off and telling the boss XYZ is doing XYZ will only get both the boss and the dude ****ed off at you. I use to do that, but a year or so ago someone pulled me to the side and told me, not so nicely, to quit it.

Long story short. Going to the guy with your thoughts about his actions will get you further then just turning him in. If he continues to do the unsafe/illegal action then and ONLY THEN pass it up the chain.

This applies to any issue you have with anyone.

Oh and dude Respect the CHAIN. People in charge tend to get ****y, rightfully so, if you go around them to their boss.

Noted. Although the airport manager (my boss) was actually encouraging me to grab the tail number and video if possible (after the fact). He's pretty safety oriented and said he'd probably report it to the FSDO on Monday based on what we told him. Your mileage may vary of course. I am not a snitch or narc or tattle-tale or what have you - I am (intending on) using the system for reporting the way it was intended to be used. Thanks for the input though

I'm also not sure if he's done this kind of behavior before, or if he's been told by other pilots that he was unsafe. For that reason, I prefer to let the FSDO handle it if they like - who knows, they might have records of the tail number from past reports.

 

[SkyHog]

Okay, since you're begging the question...

What is there to be gained by not reporting someone who is flying dangerously, over a town and an airport at low altitude?

//edit

Or seeing a student jumping into a plane about to go flying off into IMC and worsening conditions that you just got out of without saying anything because it doesn't concern you?

Or letting traffic enroute to the airport know about a NORDO guy doing touch and go's before they arrive at the pattern?

Or calling up on the CTAF to let a guy ahead of you about to take off know that his tire is low, or his seatbelt is hanging out of the door, or that he left his fuel caps off?

It's all about safety and watching out for one another, for better or worse. I don't want that guy to end up killing himself or someone else so I choose to report it.

You're looking at it backward. What do you personally gain by reporting the guy? Its none of your damn business, so stay out of it.

If you feel otherwise, go ahead and report 'em. Just note, this is a small community (pilots). You really want to get started in your early 20s by ****ing off the majority of people who know how to shut the hell up and let others do what they feel comfortable with?

I'd say this: I would gladly sit back and laugh if you wound up with a 44709 ride some day because someone found out your real name and decided to report every little thing you did to the FAA to prove a point.

Now - if the guy is actually affecting you (and your childish little thing about adding a 'personally affected tag' or whatever your called it is just trying to apply reducto ad absurdium to a valid argument), then by all means, go ahead and try to end his career.

If that's how you get your jollies - by telling on your big brother because he took the last piece of pizza without asking, then have a good time ruining your good name in the process.

Just don't ever be man enough to let your real name slip.

-Nick Brennan

 

[ARFlyer]

Noted. Although the airport manager (my boss) was actually encouraging me to grab the tail number and video if possible (after the fact). He's pretty safety oriented and said he'd probably report it to the FSDO on Monday based on what we told him. Your mileage may vary of course. I am not a snitch or narc or tattle-tale or what have you - I am (intending on) using the system for reporting the way it was intended to be used. Thanks for the input though

I'm also not sure if he's done this kind of behavior before, or if he's been told by other pilots that he was unsafe. For that reason, I prefer to let the FSDO handle it if they like - who knows, they might have records of the tail number from past reports.

It's cool, do what you and your boss think is necessary.

Our FSDO tends to be very proactive on these types of reports. Often they will just call the guy and give him a friendly safety lecture and let it go. Kind of a, "Hey, dude stop it". Other FSDOs tend to shoot and ask question later. I feel ours has the correct approach.

 

[Direct C51]

If your true intentions are to help him out and make a change, talk to him like a man first. If you just want to go tell on him, call the FSDO, and give this guy months of 'help', possibly followed by more 'help' if he looses his certificate. Like many here have said, you don't want this reputation. Are you going to so steadfastly report your jump pilot friend when you see him just kind of fly through the edge of that cloud on climb out? Or will he get a pass?

 

[overdrive148]

You're looking at it backward. What do you personally gain by reporting the guy? Its none of your damn business, so stay out of it.

If you feel otherwise, go ahead and report 'em. Just note, this is a small community (pilots). You really want to get started in your early 20s by ****ing off the majority of people who know how to shut the hell up and let others do what they feel comfortable with?

I'd say this: I would gladly sit back and laugh if you wound up with a 44709 ride some day because someone found out your real name and decided to report every little thing you did to the FAA to prove a point.

Now - if the guy is actually affecting you (and your childish little thing about adding a 'personally affected tag' or whatever your called it is just trying to apply reducto ad absurdium to a valid argument), then by all means, go ahead and try to end his career.

If that's how you get your jollies - by telling on your big brother because he took the last piece of pizza without asking, then have a good time ruining your good name in the process.

Just don't ever be man enough to let your real name slip.

-Nick Brennan

Safety is everyone's responsibility. Since you don't seem to understand that concept, from the same FAA that brought you your pilots license and the FAR's you also don't seem to understand:

http://www.faa.gov/tv/?mediaId=120

The fact that aviation is a small community doesn't exactly frighten me. There are as many pilots in this thread that support my point of view as who oppose it. It sure doesn't look like a "majority" of people who feel comfortable being quiet on issues that need to be dealt with.

I get the feeling that you're one of those pilots who would -also- rather see more regulations written in blood rather than proactively before anyone dies or crashes.

You don't seem to understand the concept of a 44709 ride. They are there to ensure that you are fit to fly an aircraft. Why would I have any problem with a 44709 if I'm not the one...oh, I don't know, buzzing towns under minimums? Just for example's sake. Not like that ever happens. Besides, who would report me, the "majority" of pilots know that it's just okay to ignore FAR's and let other people do what they're comfortable with. Hold my beer!

You also make it out like I'm out stalking pilots on the ramp trying to find one thing wrong with them. I saw a pilot doing something reckless who more or less called it on himself by buzzing the terminal and getting my attention. You sure do like to make a lot of unfounded generalizations.

I didn't apply any tags to the forum, I just called attention to the ones that are there. And by no means am I trying to "end his career" - if he did something stupid enough for the FSDO to justify ending a pilot's career, it was not me flying the plane that did it.

There are no jollies in this situation, but there are definitely some rustled jimmies. By the way, your fixation on "big brother" and people being out to get you is pretty unhealthy from the looks of it. That tin foil hat isn't doing much other than filtering out your common sense.

I'm not afraid to tell you that I believe that your position on safety and reporting dangerous pilots is dangerous and harmful. That's your check, "Captain". What are you going to do with it?

Until more pilots (like yourself) get a sense of proactive safety instead of reactive safety, there's going to be a lot more red in the FAR book.

If you were so inclined, you could just look at my profile on here for my full name. I don't have anything to hide, and even though I see you posting your name as a childish and a particularly weak attempt at chest-beating, my full name is Chris Wilson.

Don't forget to mention how some guy on a forum on the internet ruffled your feathers because he was talking about safety in aviation and you felt intimidated enough to remember his name to warn every pilot you know.
_________________________________________________________

It's cool, do what you and your boss think is necessary.

Our FSDO tends to be very proactive on these types of reports. Often they will just call the guy and give him a friendly safety lecture and let it go. Kind of a, "Hey, dude stop it". Other FSDOs tend to shoot and ask question later. I feel ours has the correct approach.

Thank you for the advice! That's really what I'm looking for to be honest. I don't know the FSDO in OKC personally so that's something to consider.

If your true intentions are to help him out and make a change, talk to him like a man first. If you just want to go tell on him, call the FSDO, and give this guy months of 'help', possibly followed by more 'help' if he looses his certificate. Like many here have said, you don't want this reputation. Are you going to so steadfastly report your jump pilot friend when you see him just kind of fly through the edge of that cloud on climb out? Or will he get a pass?

As I've said earlier in the thread, whether or not a pilot loses their certificate is someone doing something that the FSDO finds unacceptable. The reason I'm wanting to file this report is because the way he was flying was reckless and dangerous. Plain and simple. Someone clipping the edge of a cloud wouldn't get me in arms. Plus the skydiving place is pretty on lock with their operational safety. I wouldn't get a chance even if I intended on busting them for it . In reality, I believe that he was being incredibly dangerous and flying too low. I find it to be something to reported.

 

[ARFlyer]

If your true intentions are to help him out and make a change, talk to him like a man first. If you just want to go tell on him, call the FSDO, and give this guy months of 'help', possibly followed by more 'help' if he looses his certificate. Like many here have said, you don't want this reputation. Are you going to so steadfastly report your jump pilot friend when you see him just kind of fly through the edge of that cloud on climb out? Or will he get a pass?

I listen to a guy today tell ATC he was going to go through a hole in the cloud deck and would call when he was in the clear. He ended up head on towards me when I was still in the soup. Instead of yelling at him ATC decided just to throw him on CTAF so I could talk to him and not grind metal when I popped out.

Yes, I was annoyed and thought to myself that guy is an idiot. However, I had other things more important to worry about then him.

 

[ClimbnSink]

I blame Embry Riddle. What horrible monsters they make.

 

[overdrive148]

I listen to a guy today tell ATC he was going to go through a hole in the cloud deck and would call when he was in the clear. He ended up head on towards me when I was still in the soup. Instead of yelling at him ATC decided just to throw him on CTAF so I could talk to him and not grind metal when I popped out.

Yes, I was annoyed and thought to myself that guy is an idiot. However, I had other things more important to worry about then him.

What I don't think people understand is that I'm not out to get anyone. I am not going to report just to report in hopes of sinking some pilot. The one today was a danger and I've decided that it warrants a report. It is the factor of safety I'm after.

During my first student long cross-country, after an exhausting flight, I ended up borking my pattern entry on the wrong side of the airport. I went left downwind instead of right. What did the tower do? They grilled my happy butt on the CTAF and warned me to not do it again and sent me home. It was a rarely used airport with very little traffic, especially that day. What did I learn? Not to do that again! Guess what hadn't happened since then? I can assure you I've paid much more attention to pattern entry in advance.

My point is that everything doesn't need to be reported, but I personally believe that the FSDO needs to be informed so that they can decide if he needs to be grilled at all before I go knocking on his wing or calling him and asking him like a "man" about the situation. And from there, so they can let him know not to do it again. And check their records to see if he's had any other complaints of the same nature. It's not my job, but it is my responsibility.

I blame Embry Riddle. What horrible monsters they make.

Yeah, because going to a university for 4 years is where the entire foundation of all of my personal beliefs on safety in aviation came from don't forget to count all of the articles I've read and lessons I've watched and flights I've had.

 

[MarleyW]

Holy cow! The people in this thread are crazy! If someone is doing something dangerous and stupid then yes report them and make them stop. It doesn't matter if they are doing aerobatics over a city or weaving down the freeway at 110mph. Obviously use sound judgement and don't report someone for something silly. In this instance I would say don't report this guy, but perhaps try to talk to him, it didn't sound flagrantly dangerous, but the people who are making fun of you are fools.

 

[Pinstriper]

In case no one has mentioned it... Just post the damn video already.. Let's see this evil man doing his evil tricks so we can either think he's a fool, or you are being foolish.. After all the FAA is gonna want to see it. Come on. Don't be scared.. Upload it and show it to us!!

 

[garyb]

Fine. Go ahead and report him, but karma's real and it's a *****.

 

[overdrive148]

Fine. Go ahead and report him, but karma's real and it's a *****.

So is gravity I'd rather him get a FSDO ripping than crash on top of someone. With all of the "karma" in the thread, it might be me

Or who knows, the karma of encouraging people to not report dangerous activities might be bad karma for you

 

[garyb]

Gravity takes care of it's own. You want to turn yourself into the airport pariah, go ahead.

 

[overdrive148]

Gravity takes care of it's own. You want to turn yourself into the airport pariah, go ahead.

This just in - reporting dangerous pilots likely to crash into planes or buildings is widely unpopular! Oh wait, that's just your claim. Move along if you're not going to contribute anything substantial to the thread or the subject at hand please.

 

[MAKG1]

Gravity takes care of it's own. You want to turn yourself into the airport pariah, go ahead.

The issue is not gravity. It's the other people he takes with him, which may include the airport itself. Locals do not look kindly upon aircraft destroying their houses.

Your attitude would make sense only if all crashes -- or even most of them -- had one victim. It is not so.

The OP does have to be right. That's the rub. It's not wise to report marginal deviations, but the really big, obvious ones are another story.

Correcting a cowboy by direct confrontation doesn't work if any hazardous attitudes are in play, which may or may not be a factor. The FSDO has another dynamic, 'cause it's not an option to dismiss an inspector as some "whiny kid" like several posters did here.

 

[acrophile]

Go ahead and report him, but karma's real and it's a *****.

Uh no, karma is not real. The universe is not governed by some magic force that treats each person the way they treat others. Some people are predatory their whole lives and get away with it. Some are benevolent and get punished for it. Justice, when it does prevail, is enacted by people, not by magic.

And even if karma were real, Chris has nothing to fear here. "Karma" would merely ensure that he too would face FAA consequences if he deliberately did something flagrantly illegal and unsafe. I'm sure he has no problem being held to that standard. Why do you?

 

[ClimbnSink]

This just in - reporting dangerous pilots likely to crash into planes or buildings is widely unpopular! Oh wait, that's just your claim. Move along if you're not going to contribute anything substantial to the thread or the subject at hand please.

First you rat a pilot out, now you want to control content on the internet. Good luck dude.

 

[1600vw]

I was getting ready for a nice evening flight when all of a sudden here comes an airplane at around 700' right through the pattern of my field. As I watch this person cross the field then start doing circles over someones home, I hear another airplane. I turn around and here comes another airplane at about 700' right across my field at around pattern height. I watch him fly out of site.

I am just getting ready to climb in my airplane and here comes another airplane at around pattern height cutting across my field. As I watch him go out of site, here comes another airplane around pattern height right across my field.

Did I ever think about calling and reporting anyone for anything. No way.

I would never report anyone. If they are doing something wrong the powers to be will find them without my help.

Now do not compare this to someone hurting another person. I would not report them but beat them. I do not need to report someone to handle matters.

Tony

 

[JoseCuervo]

Post the video. Let us all see it.

If it is too long at 4 minutes, cut it into smaller clips.

We should all be able to learn from seeing the video.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

In case no one has mentioned it... Just post the damn video already.. Let's see this evil man doing his evil tricks so we can either think he's a fool, or you are being foolish.. After all the FAA is gonna want to see it. Come on. Don't be scared.. Upload it and show it to us!!

+1 and post his tail number, maybe he is a POA member

 

[N53KL]

Interesting and humorous thread

From a different perspective, about 10 years ago I was reported to the FAA for landing at a non-controlled airport when the weather was below VFR minimums. I was accused of being reckless and endangering my passenger. As I was staying the night, I spent time in the FBO getting my rental car and paying my bill. I left the next morning into clear skies.

About 3 days later I got a call from the FAA regarding a report from someone at the airport. The nice man told me what was reported and wanted to get my side of the story. I told him I was on an IFR flight plan, was cleared for and flew the charted instrument approach. I told him I broke out well above minimums and after landing, cancelled my IFR on the remote ground frequency as requested. The nice FAA man thanked me for the information and I never heard from them again.

I know this person was there when I walked through the FBO. I would have liked it if he/she approached me and questioned me instead of wasting the FAA, and my time. I would have told him the Falcon 900 I was flying is always on an IFR flight plan and the CEO of the fortune 50 company who I was transporting there for a meeting pays me to do things safely.

Although this is a different situation, it illustrates how different perceptions and reality can be. Before I send up red flags, I am going to first get the other's side of the story.

Kevin

 

[overdrive148]

Uh no, karma is not real. The universe is not governed by some magic force that treats each person the way they treat others. Some people are predatory their whole lives and get away with it. Some are benevolent and get punished for it. Justice, when it does prevail, is enacted by people, not by magic.

And even if karma were real, Chris has nothing to fear here. "Karma" would merely ensure that he too would face FAA consequences if he deliberately did something flagrantly illegal and unsafe. I'm sure he has no problem being held to that standard. Why do you?

First you rat a pilot out, now you want to control content on the internet. Good luck dude.

Yeah, how dare the OP try to keep the thread on track! Karma and spin-zone worthy comments are totally part of the topic at hand At first I thought you were actually responding in kind of the thread - now I just think you're trolling, given your past few posts

I was getting ready for a nice evening flight when all of a sudden here comes an airplane at around 700' right through the pattern of my field. As I watch this person cross the field then start doing circles over someones home, I hear another airplane. I turn around and here comes another airplane at about 700' right across my field at around pattern height. I watch him fly out of site.

I am just getting ready to climb in my airplane and here comes another airplane at around pattern height cutting across my field. As I watch him go out of site, here comes another airplane around pattern height right across my field.

Did I ever think about calling and reporting anyone for anything. No way.

I would never report anyone. If they are doing something wrong the powers to be will find them without my help.

Now do not compare this to someone hurting another person. I would not report them but beat them. I do not need to report someone to handle matters.

Tony

The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you don't report people who are in obvious error then how can you expect them to change their ways?

Its too easy to just disregard a dangerous pilot by saying "well it's not me he's going to affect so it doesn't matter" or in your case, "the powers that be will handle it". That person that DOES get affected could be me, my girlfriend, my family. And I'll be damned if I'm going to let some reckless idiot go because I didn't want to "bother him" or "inconvenience him" or "get sued" over people who are important to me.

As I apparently have to keep bringing up, would you rather he crashed somewhere and took out a significant other or family member so that you could look back and wish that someone had prevented the crash?

+1 and post his tail number, maybe he is a POA member

Post the video. Let us all see it.

If it is too long at 4 minutes, cut it into smaller clips.

We should all be able to learn from seeing the video.

Googling the tail number for the FAA registry also pulled up a post on yahoo where a PoA member did give him advice.

I'm on the fence - the only people who really need to see it is the FSDO and if it's not sufficient to show he was dangerous then that's the end of it. And I don't have much to prove to the thread by posting pics so that people can argue over that too (this whole thing started because I asked how to report it after all). Once I get a copy of the video I'll make a decision.

Interesting and humorous thread

From a different perspective, about 10 years ago I was reported to the FAA for landing at a non-controlled airport when the weather was below VFR minimums. I was accused of being reckless and endangering my passenger. As I was staying the night, I spent time in the FBO getting my rental car and paying my bill. I left the next morning into clear skies.

About 3 days later I got a call from the FAA regarding a report from someone at the airport. The nice man told me what was reported and wanted to get my side of the story. I told him I was on an IFR flight plan, was cleared for and flew the charted instrument approach. I told him I broke out well above minimums and after landing, cancelled my IFR on the remote ground frequency as requested. The nice FAA man thanked me for the information and I never heard from them again.

I know this person was there when I walked through the FBO. I would have liked it if he/she approached me and questioned me instead of wasting the FAA, and my time. I would have told him the Falcon 900 I was flying is always on an IFR flight plan and the CEO of the fortune 50 company who I was transporting there for a meeting pays me to do things safely.

Although this is a different situation, it illustrates how different perceptions and reality can be. Before I send up red flags, I am going to first get the other's side of the story.

Kevin

Thank you for your anecdote. The thing is, I don't know the pilot, I didn't get a chance to talk to him. In my view he was acting unsafely and in violation of the FAR's for minimum altitude over a congested area. I have a tail number and a video. As a few people in the thread have just discounted me as some greenhorn who doesn't know any better, who says the pilot won't have the same kind of response? How many people have told him that he's being unsafe that he may have blown off?

If I'm right, and the FSDO frowns upon his display of airmanship over a city at 500 feet, then he will have action taken against him. If they don't, then if anything, the worst that will happen is a phone call asking him about what happened and then he'll not hear from them again. If the phone call happens, then it achieves the same effect as if I went over and talked to the guy informally about what he did so that he knows and it goes on the record in case it becomes a repeat thing if it isn't already.

I don't see a downside to reporting him if it was someone based, sure I could go over there and talk with the guy but he's not from around here.

 

[overdrive148]

Lame

This is right next to that old lady who calls the cops when she hears anything (music, car, talking).

I'd just let it be, or if you want to be a man about it run the N number and send him a letter with a picture of his plane doing that, or do a spokeo search for his phone number based off address. Guessing he won't come around anymore.

Also, a callback to the first page of the thread that I didn't reply to.

So for some reason, kicking the can down the road is fine with you?

"Just make him go away so he doesn't bother me", yeah, okay. What about those people who are "away" from you who have to deal with him. If you were a "man" about it, you'd probably stop the buck yourself instead of just pushing it on for other people to deal with.

 

[mondtster]

I'm not reading all this nonsense, but how do you know this guy wasn't a powerline or pipeline patroller? Maybe I should call those guys in every time they fly over my house at 200'. Stupid stuff like this thread is exactly the reason why I made sure I had the small registration numbers on my plane.

Around here the FSDO would do nothing based on a simple phone call. They must get a bunch of calls from whiners. You'd have to write a formal complaint if you wanted it to go any further.

 

[tmyers]

OP seems to have gained quite a bit of knowledge about POA, spin zone and trolling in his short time here.

Just saying,

Amazing that so much arguing and name calling can come out in such a short time from grown men.

Seems it is time to call no joy and return to base. This whole thread is kinda embarrassing. I have actually encouraged pilot friends to come here to discuss aviation, I may have to stop doing that.

 

[overdrive148]

I'm not reading all this nonsense, but how do you know this guy wasn't a powerline or pipeline patroller? Maybe I should call those guys in every time they fly over my house at 200'. Stupid stuff like this thread is exactly the reason why I made sure I had the small registration numbers on my plane.

Around here the FSDO would do nothing based on a simple phone call. They must get a bunch of calls from whiners. You'd have to write a formal complaint if you wanted it to go any further.

There's no pipeline running the rough the middle of town

So basically you're actively trying to avoid being held responsible for your pilot decisions by having tiny N-numbers so that it's harder for people to report you. Either you're doing stupid things and flying recklessly or you aren't.

If you don't, then you have nothing to worry about from big bad people like me. If you do, then the numbers on the offending aircraft were also in tiny numbers and I still caught them with the binoculars. Whether you do anything stupid enough to get your license revoked or suspended is up to you.

The aircraft was not one that is used in pipeline or power line patrolling, he was doing maneuvers over a town. I don't think this is a point anyone else here can contend since it's me saying it happened and me alone.

The point is moot if people want to argue with me about what happened. A plane was flying low enough to violate FAR's and endanger people on the ground. That's my "story" and the basis of almost the entire thread.

 

[CharlieTango]

...In my view he was acting unsafely and in violation of the FAR's for minimum altitude over a congested area...

Unfortunately, neither the FAA nor the NTSB has ever provided airmen with a precise definition of what constitutes a "congested area." Rather, a "congested area" is determined on a case-by-case basis.

Your contention that he is likely to fly into a building is unsupported.