Repeated fuel contamination?

bflynn

bflynn

Final Approach
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KTTA
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Display name:
Brian Flynn
Here's a puzzle - what's happening to Wings of Carolina aircraft at KTTA?

We've got a couple of airplanes which have had fuel contamination in the past week. The FBO has done their testing and maintenance and they say it isn't the fuel truck. To my knowledge, nobody else has had bad fuel at the airport and most of the planes have not been anywhere else.

How do we suddenly get it in multiple aircraft? Additionally, how does one of those aircraft (PA-28-161) keep having it come back? It had 4 gallons drained out today and it was all bad again.

AND A CORRECTION - it is just one aircraft. My mistake.

Fuel_contamination.jpeg Fuel_comparison_n1.jpeg
 
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There is waay too much avgas in those samples of sewer effluent.
Think I'd be doing the full fuel system flush b4 flying.
And asking neighbors about theirs.
 
Something different in the fuel not playing nice with certain fuel tank chemistry (bladder compound, sealant type, etc?). Unless it’s vandalism to certain planes. Nuthin but a wild ass guess.
 
It is a mystery. I've cancelled twice due to bad gas in the last two weeks, yesterday was cancelled for me when the plane was taken offline.

Look forward to finding out what it is.
 
If no one else on the field is experiencing it, my first thought was vandalism or a ****ed off former student, pilot, or CFI as well. If everyone is getting fuel from the same source, FBO, and only your planes started all having water it does make you think someone is intentionally doing it.
 
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If this is only being experienced in the Wings of Carolina aircraft, than that definitely raises suspicion. I too agree that a full system flush is necessary, followed by tank and line inspection. If all of that checks out, than I would think there's some foul play involved.
 
Ryanb said:
If this is only being experienced in the Wings of Carolina aircraft, than that definitely raises suspicion. I too agree that a full system flush is necessary, followed by tank and line inspection. If all of that checks out, than I would think there's some foul play involved.
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I would agree with this. If it turns out to be vandals, they need to be put behind bars.
 
Your samples don’t look like water contamination which is commonly found. Something fishy is going on here.....

We had a guy find metal shavings, I mean chunks big enough to have serial numbers, in his oil pan. No catastrophic damage in the engine. Still haven’t found the ass-wipe that did it.
 
Was there a strong drop in temperature between when you fueled and when you took the sample? I know jet fuel will pool water out of solution when it goes from warm to cold in the storage tanks and I imagine avgas will as well. But that doesn't look like any avgas I've seen working the line, taking fuel loads, or in any training material, so maybe it's maintenance related (or something most foul).
 
I agree - that first picture is foul. The cloudy gas is weird, maybe water in suspension.

It's North Carolina, the temperature this time of year goes up and down by quite a bit. It was up to 70 and down below freezing on consecutive days.
 
mscard88 said:
If no one else on the field is experiencing it, my first thought was vandalism or a ****ed off former student, pilot, or CFI as well. If everyone is getting fuel from the same source, FBO, and only your planes started all having water it does make you think someone is intentionally doing it.
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Risking ending their professional life a being locked in a cage, have you really ticked someone off to that point??

My first guess would be some funky sealant or something

Heres what Id suggest.

1 take another sample, pour a little on a white napkin, leave the rest in the jar and see if it separates over night

2 Go over the mx logs of the planes affected and see if anything matches up time frame wise

3 go to wally world, cabellas, or similar and buy a game camera and set it up in the hangar.

Between those two and a weeks time, you'll likely have your answer
 
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James331 said:
Risking ending their professional life a being locked in a cage, have you really ticked someone off to that point??
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I hope I haven't, and never do. But there's a lot of this going on now when a disgruntled employee, fired, reassigned, demoted, or whatever, returns to the work place with weapons and takes out innocent people.
 
We don't know yet, but my first suspicion would be that someone put something in the tanks. If that is the case, they should be locked up. They will be lucky if the charge isn't attempted murder.
 
mscard88 said:
I hope I haven't, and never do. But there's a lot of this going on now when a disgruntled employee, fired, reassigned, demoted, or whatever, returns to the work place with weapons and takes out innocent people.
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As much as the media and government would love us to think that (as it keeps them needed and relevant) its actually VERY rare and you're zillions of times likely to meet your maker due to a heart attack, stroke, poor breeding, or just a bad luck type accident.
 
wsuffa said:
We don't know yet, but my first suspicion would be that someone put something in the tanks. If that is the case, they should be locked up. They will be lucky if the charge isn't attempted murder.
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Well to me it seems like vandalism. I can't see a legit FBO risking the liability of pencil whipping a tanks and fuel test. Do you have a "Quiet skies" type group nearby or perhaps some other anti airport group?
 
And by the way folks, vandalism is too soft of a word. This falls under sabotage. This isn’t graffiti.
 
James331 said:
As much as the media and government would love us to think that (as it keeps them needed and relevant) its actually VERY rare and you're zillions of times likely to meet your maker due to a heart attack, stroke, poor breeding, or just a bad luck type accident.
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That's irrelevant to what we're discussing James. Try to focus....;)
 
James331 said:
As much as the media and government would love us to think that (as it keeps them needed and relevant) its actually VERY rare and you're zillions of times likely to meet your maker due to a heart attack, stroke, poor breeding, or just a bad luck type accident.
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I googled "how many school shootings in 2018" and got 12! There were 244 mass shootings in 2017 and nearly 300 in 2016 if you believe Google. Holy smokes people. How many airplane crashes/fatals were there in the last NALL report?

Agree that fuel looks very weird. Interesting to see what it looks like settled out.
 
323.1 million people in the US
Stats are your lifestyle choices are going to kill you, not a "bad guy"

But like I said,
Take a better look at that sample and let it settle in a jar overnight
Go over the mx logs of the planes having the issue and look at dates
Put a cheap game/trail camera in the hangar just incase
 
Yes it is a federal offense to mess with airplanes. Does the airport have cameras? Video recorder? You may want to set up a criiter camera pointed at your plane.
Please don't turn this thread into a conspiracy theory discussion, argue with the guy in your head instead.
 
AdamZ said:
Well to me it seems like vandalism. I can't see a legit FBO risking the liability of pencil whipping a tanks and fuel test. Do you have a "Quiet skies" type group nearby or perhaps some other anti airport group?
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During my advanced LST training for AvFuel the instructor told us a story about a batch of fuel at the refinery changing halfway through for some reason (enough that the API gravity would be off by enough to reject the loads). He said something like out of 15-20 FBOs, only one rejected the load. The rest were pencil whipping the numbers into the books. YMMV.
 
The left jar on the OPs second picture shows quite a bit if clear water at the bottom. My guess is the solvency of the AvGas found some dye which may have come from the Avgas dregs or from some water. How long since the last FBO's sample was taken? And what had been added to the FBO's tank since?
 
nrpetersen said:
The left jar on the OPs second picture shows quite a bit if clear water at the bottom. My guess is the solvency of the AvGas found some dye which may have come from the Avgas dregs or from some water. How long since the last FBO's sample was taken? And what had been added to the FBO's tank since?
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AND A CORRECTION - it is just one aircraft. My mistake.

That's an optical illusion. The left jar is actually good gas. Not gunky, not cloudy.

These are club planes, so despite the obvious thought, the odds that it's someone being malicious are pretty small. You'd have to be completely psychopathic to risk someone's life just because you don't like a club? Come on, this isn't CAP, it's a flying club. I believe there are cameras on the ramp and I'm sure that is being followed up on.

The FBO samples regularly and has sampled multiple times since this was discovered.

My thought is actually something in the plane, which is why I posted this under maintenance. That first sample picture looks nasty, but again could be an optical illusion.
 
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murphey said:
Isn't any action,at the level of misdemeanor or felony, against an aircraft, a Federal offense?
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Yes it is, and it might be a good idea to get the FBI (assuming they are still somewhat trustworthy) involved.
 
bflynn said:
AND A CORRECTION - it is just one aircraft. My mistake.

That's an optical illusion. The left jar is actually good gas. Not gunky, not cloudy.

These are club planes, so despite the obvious thought, the odds that it's someone being malicious are pretty small. You'd have to be completely psychopathic to risk someone's life just because you don't like a club? Come on, this isn't CAP, it's a flying club. I believe there are cameras on the ramp and I'm sure that is being followed up on.

The FBO samples regularly and has sampled multiple times since this was discovered.

My thought is actually something in the plane, which is why I posted this under maintenance. That first sample picture looks nasty, but again could be an optical illusion.
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I’ve seen two cases where the fuel cap gaskets leaked, a Cherokee and a Mooney. Replaced the gaskets on the Cherokee. The Mooney hadn’t been tightened properly so no maintenance required.

In both cases clear water was visible when sumping. The fuel sample did not show cloudy at all.

Cloudy fuel says microbes to me. In a car I’d use methanol just because I know where to get it cheap. In a plane I’d prolly drain the system, maybe flush with clean gas, then fill with clean gas treated with isopropyl. Prolly talk to mechanics first to find somebody who has delt with contaminated fuel systems first.
 
The plane is grounded and going through a fuel system flush.

Still don't know what the contamination was.
 
Yeah, I goofed. I sometimes don't really things completely.
 
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