Repainting a Taylorcraft?

D

Dorian

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jan 7, 2023
Messages
5
Display Name
Display name:
Allihusk
I own a ‘47 BC12-D. It’s a wonderful aircraft but I’d like to put some money and labor into it to really make it great. Part of that is redoing the ugly (and worn) paint job on it.

Problem is I’m a kid who’s in way over his head when it comes to stuff like this, and it doesn’t help that the previous owner(s) kept really poor records on it. All I know is that it’s poly fiber. Beyond that I have no idea how to proceed with this endeavor. If anyone has some insight on how to go about this, I’d really appreciate it.

P.S. Nobody within a reasonable distance of my home airport knows anything about fabric, so I can’t find much help in that regard.
 
You’re going to need to figure out what the top coat is before anyone can advise you. It can be various things with the Poly Fiber system and the advice and approach for repair will vary greatly. Do not listen to the recommendations that don’t take this into account.
 
Dorian said:
Problem is I’m a kid who’s in way over his head when it comes to stuff like this,
Click to expand...
First expand on this a bit. Do you have at least a private pilot certificate or an A&P?
 
Bell206 said:
First expand on this a bit. Do you have at least a private pilot certificate or an A&P?
Click to expand...

PPL SEL and if I go through with this I’ll be doing it alongside an A&P.
 
Dorian said:
PPL SEL and if I go through with this I’ll be doing it alongside an A&P.
Click to expand...
Okay. Before you address the paint its best to determine the condition of the fabric first. Is the plane flyable? If so take it to someone who can make that determination. Trying to repaint bad underlying fabric usually ends in a goat roping contest.

Perhaps look for a local EAA chapter as they might be able to fix you up with a fabric guy?
 
How do you know it's Poly Fiber? Is that what the previous owner told you, or is there a record of it in the logs?

Poly-fiber is an STC'd process. That means that any repairs, including painting, must conform to the Poly-Fiber manual's instructions.

And as Bell206 points out, if the fabric is aged and weak, don't spend another dime on it. The airplane needs a complete re-cover job. Painting it will just add weight, and money will be spent on paint and other stuff that will soon be torn off and thrown away.
 
Bell206 said:
Okay. Before you address the paint its best to determine the condition of the fabric first. Is the plane flyable? If so take it to someone who can make that determination. Trying to repaint bad underlying fabric usually ends in a goat roping contest.

Perhaps look for a local EAA chapter as they might be able to fix you up with a fabric guy?
Click to expand...

Fabric is in good condition and plane is perfectly airworthy. There’s a spot or two where I can see it’s been patched and some chipped paint on the horizontal stabilizer but otherwise my only issue with it is the aged-looking finish, which I attribute to the fact that it sits under a shade cover rather than a hangar.

Getting in touch with an EAA chapter is a good idea, I’ll shoot them an email sometime soon.
 
Dan Thomas said:
How do you know it's Poly Fiber? Is that what the previous owner told you, or is there a record of it in the logs?
Click to expand...

Found it in a 337 when the wings were last recovered. I’d reach out to the guy who did that but he lives on the other side of the country and I have no means of contacting him.
 
Dorian said:
Found it in a 337 when the wings were last recovered. I’d reach out to the guy who did that but he lives on the other side of the country and I have no means of contacting him.
Click to expand...
So the wings might be Poly-fiber and the fuselage and tail something else. One needs to know what it is, or find someone with extensive fabric experience that can identify it.
 
Dorian said:
Fabric is in good condition and plane is perfectly airworthy
Click to expand...
Dorian said:
otherwise my only issue with it is the aged-looking finish
Click to expand...
If there are no repairs required and the fabric is good, my recommendation would be to call the cover system provider and get recommendations for a cleaner/rejuventor for the existing paint and use a little elbow grease to cut the "age" off the finish. Follow up with a wax/sealer. Then live with it. I personally wouldnt go the repaint reroute and just wait til time to recover. Just my 2 cents.
 
If MEK softens the paint it's Polytone; if it doesn't touch it it's Aerothane. But the 337 or logbook should say.

FWIW, the Stewart System can be used over any other system, which might simplify things.
 
As much as it seems "ugly" to you, I'd honestly spend the money on flying it more...

Dana said:
FWIW, the Stewart System can be used over any other system, which might simplify things.
Click to expand...
Also, this, but once you start on the project, you won't be flying for a while, more than likely.
 
Depending on how long ago it was covered the top coat could be just about anything with the poly fiber system. I can’t remember when it became disallowed (mid 2000s?) but you used to be able to use car paint to finish it.

Depending on what the top coat is there may be little or nothing that can really be done with it to make it look decent. So you have the choice of preserving what you have and living with its appearance or cutting it all off and starting over.
 
As others have said you want to determine the current topcoat.

Personally I would physically check each component as there may have been undocumented swaps. Logs are only valid till the ink is dry.

With most aircraft you don’t see the top of the wings and the shelter bottom does not deteriorate. Concentrating your efforts on the fuselage maybe the route to go.
Buffing wings and tail and just only painting fuselage and cowling will minimize both material and labor cost ( painter?) and weight gain while also making the aircraft flyable more.

You may want to examine the “Surface Tapes”. You will often find that those with pinked edges are cotton ( sucks for longevity).

Use care when sanding as it’s easy to go through the tapes and need repairs.

Years ago some aircraft using clips or screws to attach fabric only recovered the
Top surface of the wings.

Checking for rust on drag wires is best done before a decision also.
 
Magman said:
Checking for rust on drag wires is best done before a decision also.
Click to expand...
And for corrosion of the Taylorcraft's aluminum ribs, especially at the trailing edges, and for cracks and delaminated plywood doublers on the wooden spars.......

Like RyanShort1 says, small projects can turn into really big projects.
 
Dan Thomas said:
So the wings might be Poly-fiber and the fuselage and tail something else. One needs to know what it is, or find someone with extensive fabric experience that can identify it.
Click to expand...

Well to update I gained access to all of the old 337s that have been filed for it. Wings were redone with poly fiber but before that the whole aircraft was done with dope. I don't know much about dope but from what I've gathered online is that it'd warrant a total teardown and replacement. Bummer.
 
Dorian said:
Wings were redone with poly fiber but before that the whole aircraft was done with dope. I don't know much about dope but from what I've gathered online is that it'd warrant a total teardown and replacement. Bummer.
Click to expand...
Nothing about dope / Ceconite that would warrant a total recover as compared to Poly-Fiber... unless it's cotton rather than Ceconite. Working with dope isn't much different from Polyfiber, except that it takes a lot more coats thus more time. On the plus side, dope smells a lot better than the Poly-Fiber chemicals... but maybe I'm biased (or brain damaged) from all the models I painted with dope during my teenage years.

But if I was recovering an aircraft today, I'd use Oratex, no painting required (I hate painting).
 
Dorian.
I don’t follow your concern with the previous cover. Regardless of what was used then ( 1960?) the poly fiber apparently replaced it. Poly is a synthetic material
( Dacron) that can pasta very long time if given proper care.

Dope is a finishing material that can be applied over many types of
“ Structural Fabric”. It was an approved via some STCs to use with
Ceconite - Dacron- Synthetic fabrics.

There are very few aircraft flying with “ rotten cotton” as longevity tended to be only 10 years or so. So you may have synthetic covering on the entire aircraft ; just different finishing materials. Dope can be rejuvenated and reposted and would look good.

I’ll second Dan’s comment that you NEED someone with fabric experience and preferably T-craft knowledge to move forward.

Where are you located?
 
Dorian said:
Well to update I gained access to all of the old 337s that have been filed for it. Wings were redone with poly fiber but before that the whole aircraft was done with dope. I don't know much about dope but from what I've gathered online is that it'd warrant a total teardown and replacement. Bummer.
Click to expand...

Get a mechanic that has an extensive background in fabric coverings involved to assess both the logs and the aircraft to determine what you have before going any farther. Poly Fiber is a covering system but it can have various top coats which need to be treated differently. Some can be reconditioned and others don’t offer many options. If part of the aircraft is still covered with dope it may still be more repairable than something with a urethane or enamel top coat.

At the end of the day, if the fabric is old I wouldn’t waste much time on trying to resuscitate it. I’d preserve it and start saving your money for a new fabric job, as that’s where it’s headed anyway. Many of the aircraft being sold these days have not received a fabric job and a real inspection in the last 40 years, which is far longer than originally intended. I’ve never cut the fabric off an airplane and not found problems that need to be addressed.
 
A friend restored his T-Cart. Pulled off all the fabric. He found that the rudder had what appeared to be the original 1951 cotton on it. The rudder tubing was rusted badly, as the cotton will absorb some moisture and keep it against the structure. Major rudder repairs were required.

Old airplanes are fun. They can be full of unpleasant surprises. The cost of a re-cover job, done by a shop, at shop rates, can easily outstrip the value of the airplane. If I get another airplane it will be an old tube-and-rag machine whose cover is totally shot, making the airplane's value nearly nothing. I enjoy fabric work.
 
Your comment that “ no one knows fabric” is significant. Who has been doing the Annuals?

Fabric need not be a complete recover or nothing. Certain aircraft have issues that can be addressed “ala carte”. Many Piper aircraft benefit from opening the belly to
address rust concerns before welding is necessary.

“ Fabric “ has been downgraded in the AMT Curriculum. So just because someone is an A &P does not make them a fabric guru.

Knowledgeable Evaluation is where you start.

Opinions from folks that are lacking in background is worthless and may cost you big bucks.
 
Magman said:
Your comment that “ no one knows fabric” is significant. Who has been doing the Annuals?
Click to expand...
Mechanics with any fabric experience are really scarce now. They're mostly retired, like me. And, like you say, the schools don't cover it much at all.

The Poly-Fiber people give seminars sometimes, hosted by some shop or school. They are good. You get some hands-on experience.
 
Another factor may be the Aircraft Manufacturer.

The Service Manual for the Aviat Husky has a section pertaining to fabric inspection. They describe a primarily visual inspection with no mention of a strip or punch test of any sort.

The FAA recognized strip test is labor intensive and can render an aircraft ugly in a short time. The Maule Punch Tester is not FAA approved but does little damage.
It is PRICEY though, so the only Techs that have one are those that are involved with fabric a lot.

Again:

Where is OP located?
 
The logs will (should) tell you when the Poly Fiber was installed, and what coating was used. The key ingredient here is when, as there was a time when the Poly Fiber STC was only good using the whole system (Stits). Nowadays, the topcoats can be Dope, Stewart system, or any of several others. My BC12D was covered with the polyfiber system, and they used the entire Stits process. But that's a moot point as the repairs needed require a full re cover. One thing to note is that the fabric is stamped every so often when it's put on the roll. So you may get lucky enough to be able to remove an inspection plate or 3, and see the stamp.
As mentioned before, obtain a copy of the poly fiber manual and read it. There is verbiage in there about upkeep, refinish, repairs, etc. There is a copy for free download in PDF format, but I forget where. Google may turn up something.
 
Any good tube and fabric mechanic should be able to figure out what’s on it. I’m not a fan of painting over old fabric, but a professional re-cover job may cost as much as the plane’s worth. If it’s airworthy? Fly it. You’ll never get an equal return on investment for replacing the fabric.
 
Look thru an inspection hole and behind the seat into the fuselage. If n it’s pink it’s polyfiber, if n it’s blue it’s “secretnite”, if n it’s green it’s that water based stuff. Doe’s the metal match the fabric, one darker, one lighter? If so probably polytone, if it match’es, could be anything. If it’s polytone you can fill in where needed with poly spray. Keep in mind if you spray over what’s there, u’re adding weight, a lot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top