Rental/club Mooneys

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Taxi to Parking
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Feb 23, 2005
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UQACY, WI
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iMooniac
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KUES/KMKE
I put enough time into this that I'm just gonna make it its own thread so I (and others in the future) can find it more easily.

Places where you can fly a Mooney as a rental or in a club instead of owning (ordered roughly west to east):

Flying Clubs:
Flying Particles, KLVK Livermore, CA, M20J, $180/hr plus $18.50/half day
Ponderosa Aero Club, KBOI Boise, ID, M20E, $200/hr
Denver Flyers, KBJC, Denver/Broomfield, CO M20J, $190/hr
Central Iowa Flying Club, KDSM Des Moines, IA, Two M20Js for $159/hr dry
Wings of Carolina Flying Club, KTTA Sanford (Raleigh), NC, Two M20Js for $201/hr wet

Rentals:
Du Bois Aviation, KCNO Chino, CA, M20B for $195/hr wet
Yosemite Aviation, KMPI Mariposa/Yosemite, CA, M20F for $185/hr wet
Rocky Mountain Flight School, KBJC Denver/Broomfield, CO M20C for $138/hr wet
Minot Aero Center, KMOT, Minot, ND, M20J for $265/hr wet
Sandhills Flyers, KSOP, Southern Pines, NC, M20C for $205/hr wet
Ace Pilot Training, KABE Allentown, PA, M20C for $215/hr wet
Air Mods Flight Center, N87 Trenton-Robbinsville, NJ, M20J for $205/hr wet

FWIW, these are the models above:
M20B 180hp, 2450lb MGTOW, short body. Very old (all 1961).
M20C 180hp, 2575lb MGTOW, short body. One of the more popular variants, built from 1962-1978.
M20E 200hp, 2575lb MGTOW, short body. Basically an M20C with 200hp. This is the speediest of the older pre-M20J Mooneys because of the combination of light weight and power.
M20F 200hp, 2750lb MGTOW, mid body. Built from 1966-1977.
M20J 200hp, mid body. Built from 1977-1998, this is the quintessential Mooney "201" which could (at least at some point when it was brand new) go 201mph/170 knots on just 200hp. It's basically an M20F with a LOT of aerodynamic cleanups, and one of the most efficient singles ever built. Still highly sought after because of that, with prices usually in the high $100K range on up.
 
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Racerx said:
A like isn't enough to acknowledge the effort it took to compile this.
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The crazy thing to me, is that Google search, Gemini, and ChatGPT all failed miserably, failing to find a single place that had Mooneys available. There are some neat things you can do with Google's AI to filter down to more relevant search results, but it seems that maybe they broke their normal search in the process! The old "Site:" keyword and the + and - modifiers no longer work, either.
 
There used to be a Mooney for rent at KRAC but I can’t find it anymore. That’s a bummer.

And a minor note, the F - J cutover was 1977.
 
Of the 4 clubs-I belonged to two! (wings over carolina-was Chapel Hill Flying club until the NIMBYs closed the historic horace williams airport in CH, and FP)
Also rented a M20 (E? I forget) from California Airways in Livermore about 20 years ago. Sadly different ownership now. They used to have all sorts of interesting planes to rent-a yankee, a tiger, and a vargha kachina.
 
SFDukie said:
Of the 4 clubs-I belonged to two! (wings over carolina-was Chapel Hill Flying club until the NIMBYs closed the historic horace williams airport in CH, and FP)
Also rented a M20 (E? I forget) from California Airways in Livermore about 20 years ago. Sadly different ownership now. They used to have all sorts of interesting planes to rent-a yankee, a tiger, and a vargha kachina.
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Cool!

I noticed that West Valley Flying Club doesn't have nearly as many odd/different airplanes as they used to. When I first found out about them 20ish years ago, they had a C337 Skymaster, a Stearman, a couple of Extras, all kinds of super fun/weird airplanes. They still have a few unusual ones, but not as many, and fewer high performance than they used to. Other than trainers, they've got several 182s and a 206; Dakota, Saratoga, and Malibu; 4x each SR20 and SR22, a DA40. They do have a 61-aircraft fleet, though, so probably still the biggest flying club anywhere, I would imagine.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Cool!

I noticed that West Valley Flying Club doesn't have nearly as many odd/different airplanes as they used to. When I first found out about them 20ish years ago, they had a C337 Skymaster, a Stearman, a couple of Extras, all kinds of super fun/weird airplanes. They still have a few unusual ones, but not as many, and fewer high performance than they used to. Other than trainers, they've got several 182s and a 206; Dakota, Saratoga, and Malibu; 4x each SR20 and SR22, a DA40. They do have a 61-aircraft fleet, though, so probably still the biggest flying club anywhere, I would imagine.
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Occasionally I check their planes, and the variety. It's so frustrating as a renter to go through the time and expense of a checkout in a less common plane only to have it disappear before you get to "really" use it.
SCFC had a DA-40NG in their fleet. Brand new. Loved it. Spent >$4K for checkout, a bit more for a few months of currency. Had it *reserved* for a weekend trip to Paso Robles. Owner took it offline with zero warning. I had to scramble to find another plane, and was upset!
 
chartbundle said:
I think Plus One Flyers in San Diego still beats them. Even a biplane, no Mooney though.
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Wow... Yeah, they claim 86 in their fleet!

Aspen Flying Club used to be very large as well, but it's hard to get an idea of their fleet size from their website. It also appears that they've been purchased by a flight school, so it's not clear whether it's really a club any more.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Wow... Yeah, they claim 86 in their fleet!

Aspen Flying Club used to be very large as well, but it's hard to get an idea of their fleet size from their website. It also appears that they've been purchased by a flight school, so it's not clear whether it's really a club any more.
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AFAIK, Aspen Flying Club was never a "club" in the sense of a 501(c)(3) nonprofit social club. It's been a for profit organization offering flight training and aircraft rental. "Club" was used early on as part of the trade name by it's parent company to convey a sense of it's atmosphere. When it was sold the name was retained by the new owners.
 
Did you post this on Mooney Space?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Cool!

I noticed that West Valley Flying Club doesn't have nearly as many odd/different airplanes as they used to. When I first found out about them 20ish years ago, they had a C337 Skymaster, a Stearman, a couple of Extras, all kinds of super fun/weird airplanes. They still have a few unusual ones, but not as many, and fewer high performance than they used to. Other than trainers, they've got several 182s and a 206; Dakota, Saratoga, and Malibu; 4x each SR20 and SR22, a DA40. They do have a 61-aircraft fleet, though, so probably still the biggest flying club anywhere, I would imagine.
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They are all lease backs. Suspect with the increased wealth of the area the owners no longer even care about getting a little income from renting; they just use the aircraft themselves when they want.

Also from a maintenance perspective a highly disparate fleet is a pain. Let's do an annual on a Skymaster together and before day one is through you'll be disabused of the idea that renting it out is a great idea. Personally would never lease back unless the aircraft was acquired specifically for that purpose and income. Hello 172.
 
the operation is long gone, but my intro to Mooneys were in two rental Cs (one with aftermarket turbo). Since @flyingcheesehead mentioned, Aspen FC, these two were part of a very diverse fleet at Wings of Denver.

That kind if diversity was not that uncommon at APA. In addition to the Mooneys, I had a chance to fly a Cardinal, Comanches, and Bonanzas. Probably the most interesting was a 1947 V-Tail.
 
This is a sad reminder of what GA used to look like back in the 1908’s. We had twins, including a nice C-310R for rent for something other than getting a MEL rating. We had 6 seat Cherokee 6s and I rented several Mooneys and a nice Turbo Arrow and TR-182.

Good luck finding any variety in today’s rental fleet.
 
jonnyjetprop said:
This is a sad reminder of what GA used to look like back in the 1908’s. We had twins, including a nice C-310R for rent for something other than getting a MEL rating. We had 6 seat Cherokee 6s and I rented several Mooneys and a nice Turbo Arrow and TR-182.

Good luck finding any variety in today’s rental fleet.
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Depends where. Don’t assume your local limitations are universal. Twin rental is primarily an insurance issue, but high performance and retracts in rental fleets definitely exist.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Depends where. Don’t assume your local limitations are universal. Twin rental is primarily an insurance issue, but high performance and retracts in rental fleets definitely exist.
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Yet, the point remains that there are a lot less of them now.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yet, the point remains that there are a lot less of them now.
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I think the rental fleet has always been primarily basic Cessna/Piper trainer. With some exceptions, the Mooneys, Bonanzas, etc have been one-offs. Based on what I’ve seen, that’s mostly a function of the renter market. Overall pilots are looking for familiarity in rentals. I’ve been lucky enough to fly over 30 makes/models of singles - all without ever being an owner. But so many of those were only available for a short time. Why? Because the rental interest wasn’t there.

My prime example, but definitely not the only one, is a 210 HP Hawk XP. A boosted 172 with a constant speed prop. We’re talking Colorado and a fabulous high D-Alt and mountain performer. IMO, better than a 182. Yet, the leaseback failed. Very few rented it. Even when the school offered a reduced initial rate which included a mountain checkout.

Diversity does exist. But, as I said it depends where. Check out the options at Centennial Flyers at APA and Raleigh Flying Club (another commercial for profit “club”) at RDU.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
I think the rental fleet has always been primarily basic Cessna/Piper trainer. With some exceptions, the Mooneys, Bonanzas, etc have been one-offs. Based on what I’ve seen, that’s mostly a function of the renter market. Overall pilots are looking for familiarity in rentals. I’ve been lucky enough to fly over 30 makes/models of singles - all without ever being an owner. But so many of those were only available for a short time. Why? Because the rental interest wasn’t there.

My prime example, but definitely not the only one, is a 210 HP Hawk XP. A boosted 172 with a constant speed prop. We’re talking Colorado and a fabulous high D-Alt and mountain performer. IMO, better than a 182. Yet, the leaseback failed. Very few rented it. Even when the school offered a reduced initial rate which included a mountain checkout.

Diversity does exist. But, as I said it depends where. Check out the options at Centennial Flyers at APA and Raleigh Flying Club (another commercial for profit “club”) at RDU.
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Funny you should say that. The very first line in my logbook is a discovery flight in a 172XP (aka "R172K") back in 2002.

Yes, your average rental line will pretty much always include some 172s and PA28s. There are exceptions - I'm aware of some all-Diamond places, and there's one locally here that's all Cirrus plus an Aviat Husky or two - But they are definitely the exceptions. But it seems to me like there used to be a fair number of those one-offs, and almost every place had them. Now, it seems a lot less common to have those extras - Multi training seems to have become its own specialty, with most schools getting rid of them and then a number of multi-only places stepping in to pick up the slack, but not renting to anyone that isn't working on a rating or in a time building program. I feel like tailwheels were a lot easier to rent when I started as well. Of course, a lot of the retracts went away when the complex requirement for commercial and CFI went away, so those seem to be mostly gone from rental fleets where there used to always be at least one.

It just seems like an awful lot of places no longer have anything that allows you to take more steps on your flying journey. It's all 172s and PA28s and if you can't afford an airplane, those trainers are all you'll ever get to fly.
 
I spoke with Air-Mods today. They no longer have a Mooney for rental. Although it is in the pricing page, the aircraft itself is not listed as part of the fleet.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
all Cirrus plus an Aviat Husky or two -
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Yeah. With a few exceptions, Cirrus tends to be all Cirrus, mostly Cirrus training centers. You mentioned the effect of the removal of the complex endorsement on retracts. A Cirrus school I used to rent at. They had a Bonanza A36 for their commercial and CFI applicants. FWIW, the retract issue was affected by more than just the removal of the complex requirement. Modern fixed airframes like Cirrus and Diamond approximate the speed of retracts like Cutlasses and Arrows without either the insurance or maintenance downside.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You mentioned the effect of the removal of the complex endorsement on retracts. A Cirrus school I used to rent at. They had a Bonanza A36 for their commercial and CFI applicants. FWIW, the retract issue was affected by more than just the removal of the complex requirement. Modern fixed airframes like Cirrus and Diamond approximate the speed of retracts like Cutlasses and Arrows without either the insurance or maintenance downside.
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We often overstate that downside, though. Yes, it's there, but it isn't always as big a factor as people say. The place that I did most of my early training still has two Arrows in addition to the four Cirruses they've added, so it's certainly not impossible to have complex airplanes on the rental line and make money from them.
 
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