Reno Air Races 2011.... Serious Crash

Geico266

Geico266

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Crap. When we were there in 2008, I was nervous everytime they rounded turn four.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
Horrible. I've watched the races from the pits there. Was going to go this year, but a week on the beach won the family coin toss.
 
My heart is breaking for aviators, and the families of the people who were lost.
 
Live coverage from Las Vegas TV. Callers who were at the show calling in and saying what they saw. Most are saying it appeared the pilot purposely avoided the stands, ended up hitting hard in front of the stands, at the box seats.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Live coverage from Las Vegas TV. Callers who were at the show calling in and saying what they saw. Most are saying it appeared the pilot purposely avoided the stands, ended up hitting hard in front of the stands, at the box seats.
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Several RV / VAF guys are reporting they were there and can confirm the plane pulled up to avoid the stands. It could have been much worse, but it is certainly bad enough.



Double damn.
 
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Question - is the air race different than a typical airshow? I know at our airshow and OSH and others things are set so there's never any energy directed at the crowd unless somebody really makes a big mistake (or there's a control failure or something).

We have corners WELL away from the crowd, so that the energy is always parallel to the crowd line or away from it. I've never been to Reno so I don't know how that set up works.
 
Latest news: 22 injured, 9 critical, 2 dead.

Horrible, but thankfully better than initially reported.
 
Geico266 said:
Several RV / VAF guys are reporting that they were there and confirm the plane pulled up to avoid the stands. It could have been much worse, but it is certainly bad enough.

Double damn.
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Starting at 43 seconds, this video has the entire incident, starting with the Mustang pulling up and out of the pattern. It happened quite quickly.

 
TMetzinger said:
Question - is the air race different than a typical airshow? I know at our airshow and OSH and others things are set so there's never any energy directed at the crowd unless somebody really makes a big mistake (or there's a control failure or something).

We have corners WELL away from the crowd, so that the energy is always parallel to the crowd line or away from it. I've never been to Reno so I don't know how that set up works.
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Yes, it's different. And not sure how they get the waiver. Sit in the stands and watch them coming out of turn 4. :yikes: Been there, done that.
 
Wow. Talk about no time to think it over -- it happened in <10 seconds.

Pulling up so steeply, you have to consider G-LOC as a possibility.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Yes, it's different. And not sure how they get the waiver. Sit in the stands and watch them coming out of turn 4. :yikes: Been there, done that.
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It's a sight to see.. I was there the year Dago hit 500+mph and they DQ'd him due to a crew member being "out of the box."
 
BellyUpFish said:
It's a sight to see.. I was there the year Dago hit 500+mph and they DQ'd him due to a crew member being "out of the box."
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When we were there in 2004, I was surprised to see the layout of the race brought the turns right toward the crowd. It was VERY exciting, of course, but I remember thinking at the time that it would be better if the crowd was inside the track, in the infield area, facing outward, so that all the energy of the turns was directed away from the crowd.

I just hope this doesn't mark the end of RARA. I'm sure the lawsuits will be breath-taking, despite the liability waiver on the back of every ticket.
 
Awful lot of these types of incidents happening at air shows of varying types this year. Sad to see! My thoughts go out to all those impacted! :(
 
Jay Honeck said:
Wow. Talk about no time to think it over -- it happened in <10 seconds.

Pulling up so steeply, you have to consider G-LOC as a possibility.
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That was my first thought too. There are also thoughts in another forum (and I don't remember which one) that elevator trim tab flutter might have been involved. I've seen a third party indicate that the airplane was shaking, which could be an indicator of a flutter issue.

But all of this is probably wrong - watching a grainy video is a bad way to analyze a crash.
 
Ouch. This is so sad for everyone affected by it. A true tragedy for everyone involved. My hopes are that as many people as possible are ok, and that any grieving families have someone to lean on in this time.
 
TMetzinger said:
Question - is the air race different than a typical airshow? I know at our airshow and OSH and others things are set so there's never any energy directed at the crowd unless somebody really makes a big mistake (or there's a control failure or something).

We have corners WELL away from the crowd, so that the energy is always parallel to the crowd line or away from it. I've never been to Reno so I don't know how that set up works.
Click to expand...

The corner is well away, but loss of control in the corner is anyone's guess.
Looking at the video, the post impact direction is away from the crowd and stands. But close enough that the side ejecta from the impact got into the crowd.
 
Sad, so sad, it's been a tough year for aviation.

But WTF was an 80yo man doing racing a P51 in the Reno Air Races? That's just not smart.
 
All I can say is :(
 
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TangoWhiskey said:
I'd really recommend NOT watching this one... a lot of spectators having to use their belts as tourniquets due to hurt people with missing limbs.
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Yeh, really.. It's all in the video.
 
What is disgusting to me is people wanting to take pictures and videos before helping the people that are dying in front of them. A very sad commentary on today's "You Tube" generation. They know how to run a video website and post on Facebook, but to give first aid to the injured in a mass casualty situation and they stand there. Nice.
 
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I have to admit, I'm a little worried for aviation right now. We've lost a lot of friends this year.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I'd really recommend NOT watching this one... a lot of spectators having to use their belts as tourniquets due to hurt people with missing limbs.
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Thanks for the warning. Was going to watch but I think I'll pass. So sad :(
 
timwinters said:
Sad, so sad, it's been a tough year for aviation.

But WTF was an 80yo man doing racing a P51 in the Reno Air Races? That's just not smart.
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I knew Jimmy, he was an amazing pilot. He comes from a strong racing family. Initial reports are that the trim tab departed the aircraft. He initially pulled up an issued a mayday which is common when any racer encounters a problem. I don't see significant evidence of him avoiding the stands but thats personal opinion. I don't think he had the control to do so.
 
timwinters said:
But WTF was an 80yo man doing racing a P51 in the Reno Air Races? That's just not smart.
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This doesn't answer your question, but just as a point of information, the CEO of the Reno Air Races said in a news conference a little while ago that the pilot was actually 74.
 
http://alertpage1.posterous.com/renonv-air-race-crash-september-16-2011-415-h

As an Incident Command System trained Communications person, after analyzing this audio recording of the Reno/Sparks NV EMS folks, they deserve a big pat on the back.

By 11 minutes in, they had three helicopters and 13 ambulances inbound or on-scene, and by 30 minutes into the incident they had more EMS resources than they needed inbound, including four more helicopters, two from out of state and numerous ambulances still enroute with one without an assignment in the Staging area. All inbound units were cancelled a couple minutes later.

There are some ICS gaffs (there always are), the main obvious one being that PD and EMS dispatch nor on-scene command were on the same songsheet for ingress and egress routes, but in all... this is a lot more coordinated than a lot of training tapes I've studied. There's some "lessons learned", but in all, amazingly good job.

The Medical Branch Director was also having to do a bit of over-the-air OJT for some non-supervisory EMS folks who weren't 100% up to speed, but they were also busy and dual-hatted without some extra ICS-trained supervisors on-scene.

Not bad. Some lessons learned, but it's pretty good work for a Mass Casualty Incident.
 
Sounds like the latest news is that he lost his trim tab in flight.

So...did the pull-up cause the loss of trim tab, or did the loss of trim tab cause the pitch up? I hope they have better quality video of the aircraft than we've seen, or it's going to be pretty tough to determine. There's not much left to analyze.

:sad:
 
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